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Crosmando: What killed WoW for me was when it brought instant-teleportation to dungeons with players from other servers. The sense of distance and exploration goes away when you don't have to actually manually find players in your world and actually physically walk to the dungeon entrance and enter together. The dungeon-queuing thing just messes with everything, I mean you don't even know WHERE a dungeon is when you enter it unless you've looked up the lore online or something, you just magically appear in it with all the right player classes and NO ONE TALKS, they just go through the dungeon like a routine. I mean imagine a game of D&D if no-one even attempted to talk to the other players, instead just rolling the dice and curtly saying what spell or whatever you are using.

I remember when I played WoW my best experience was I think an early Undead/Forsaken area (Tarren Mill?) where we were fighting "wild" undeads and skeletons, their was a dungeon where you had to go in to kill the whole family of undead, I tried going in by myself for a quest, but it was too hard and I retreated, then I found another player walking around and we formed a party, we eventually found two other players and finished the dungeon. What made it memorable was how ad-hoc the experience was, like I actually met these people on my adventure and we talked in the chat log.

Seems to me like WoW's success turn MMO's into single-player games with some online features.
I say might aswell. When I am doing older dungeons and Raids solo I can focus completeky on the lore of the dungeons. Actually listen to what the bosses are saying, etc.

I think I had more fun doing IceCrown Citadel (and the dungeons leading up to it) solo, despite the fact that it was easy, than with a unenthused group of 24 people with me that just wants to loot and ignore everything else. (And the fact that they can clutter the area that Lore NPCs are talking about the story)

So yeah its easy, but wasn't it inevitable that thiese old dungeons and raids will getter easier and soloable the higher level and item levels we get with each new expansion. I am pretty certain Molten Core was easy when Wrath came it and peiple actually did it on solo.
I hate WoW... It destroyed the lore of the original Warcraft, and made sure we wouldn't get a Warcraft IV for a loooong time....
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Licurg: I hate WoW... It destroyed the lore of the original Warcraft, and made sure we wouldn't get a Warcraft IV for a loooong time....
This too. There's a reason I still replay the WC3/TFT campaign every now and then. Great stuff. Especially all the plots that revolve around Arthas and Illidan. I'm pretty sure WoW killed them off and probably has a villains no-one will remember.
Post edited November 25, 2014 by Crosmando
Interesting indeed.
"Story based growth - The only game I know to do this is Chrono Cross (someday I’ll write a post that doesn’t bring up CC, I promise). Stat growth comes (almost) only from beating bosses and mini-bosses in the main story-line. "

Heh, I'm pretty sure I've seen it in numerous games. I was actually considering to do this myself in a little game I've been making to keep the player from grinding. I'm pretty sure that Silver (the one that was on GOG until recently) did it this way and I'm positive that I've seen it in at least two or three other games.
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Licurg: I hate WoW... It destroyed the lore of the original Warcraft, and made sure we wouldn't get a Warcraft IV for a loooong time....
Let's count the lore issues shall we:

I don't know what contradictions were introduced in Classic/Vanilla

Burning Crusade, Caverns of Time, Illidan and Keal'Thas being "evil" well in the end of the Blood Elves Campaign in Frozen Throne Illidan did proclaim himself as Lord of Outland. And also mabye he did what he did in BC was actually him being prepared for Kil'Jaeden's return since he failed to destroy the Frozen Throne a second tim. Exactly like why Tyrande and Malfurion did not realize he was going to destroy the Frozen Throne with the Eye of Sargeras. Kael'Thas well we can all write off that Kil'Jaeden Corrupted him and he was desperate for his people's salvation that like Arthas he succumbs to temptation.

Wrath of the Lich King: I really don't know any lore contradictions all except for the ending where they say there must always be a Lich King to control the Undead Scouge because a wild Undead Scourge would be worse and besides Bolvar prclaimed himself Jailor of the damned to keep the scourge in control and won't spread across the world.

Cata: A lot but I say there are explinations to some of the lore. Why Night Elves can be Mages now? Well the last of the true Highborne asked for forgiveness and put behind 10,000 years of hatred aside and unite their powers against Deathwing and his ilk. Tauren Paladins, somthing to do with the eyes of the earth mother. The Tauren Paladins follow the Sun which is the Earth Mother's Right Eye. (The Moon is the left eye and what gave the taurens the druid class in the first place) Dwarf Shamans are because of the wild hammer dwarves which have been established since the beginning and the Wildhammer shares a connection with nature.
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Licurg: I hate WoW... It destroyed the lore of the original Warcraft, and made sure we wouldn't get a Warcraft IV for a loooong time....
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Crosmando: This too. There's a reason I still replay the WC3/TFT campaign every now and then. Great stuff. Especially all the plots that revolve around Arthas and Illidan. I'm pretty sure WoW killed them off and probably has a villains no-one will remember.
Post edited November 25, 2014 by Elmofongo
Lol at the lore thing.
I played Diablo II a lot, and found it very addictive ... but not in a good way, but more like that words original meaning! The gameplay didn't feel like I was having fun, but more like compulsive behavior.

This is likely why I never played WoW - that, and also its insane subscription-based business model.
I will probably play it when it goes F2P. The other game i want to go F2P is EVE Online.
Wow, it's been ten years and I still don't give a flying fuck about on-line play and MMO. That's coherence for you....
Never played it. It costs too much time. The only onlinge RPG I ever played was Ultima Online - and I stopped playing that because it ate too much time too. Since then I've never touched any MMORPG again and I am clean to this day. :-)
From what I can tell, WOW killed innovation in MMOs and has caused the market to stagnate while being stuck in a strict category of "maximally unfun gameplay".
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mqstout: From what I can tell, WOW killed innovation in MMOs and has caused the market to stagnate while being stuck in a strict category of "maximally unfun gameplay".
unfun?
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mqstout: From what I can tell, WOW killed innovation in MMOs and has caused the market to stagnate while being stuck in a strict category of "maximally unfun gameplay".
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amok: unfun?
WOW gameplay:
(keypresses) 1,2,3,1,4,2,1,3,1,2,5,3,1,4,2,1,2... Move to the next skirmish.

When not in combat? Wander, wait, wait wait, wander, wander, wait, progress bar watch, wait, wander, pay for something wait wander.
Post edited November 25, 2014 by mqstout
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amok: unfun?
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mqstout: WOW gameplay:
(keypresses) 1,2,3,1,4,2,1,3,1,2,5,3,1,4,2,1,2... Move to the next skirmish.

When not in combat? Wander, wait, wait wait, wander, wander, wait, progress bar watch, wait, wander, pay for something wait wander.
but that can be said of any game ever made...

I enjoyed the times I have spent on WoW and thought that it was fun. But then, I like to explore a lot in games (I guess that is your 'wander' bit :))
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amok: I enjoyed the times I have spent on WoW and thought that it was fun. But then, I like to explore a lot in games (I guess that is your 'wander' bit :))
Thing is, in WOW, there was nothing to see when you "explore. No nice nooks and crannies, pretty scenery or anything like that.

I'm also an explorer when I play games.