Desperados was indeed uncompromisingly difficult, which felt all the more more satisfying when beating it. I'm in the opposite camp: it's a favorite of mine.

Hated Desperados 2, but Helldorado had its merits, even though it was basically the second half of Desperados 2.

As for gaming shames, insisting on trying to do things in games the player is not meant to do, and failing them. A recent example is when I tried going over a mountain in Witcher 3 in Skellige, instead of around it, to reach my destination. Had to jump and roll diagonically up the mountain until it became evident I couldn't do it. I eventually ended up on a lower hill and traversed from there (on horseback now). It would have taken me much less time going around the mountain.

Another one is getting too cocky. In stealth games, for example, you do a perfect ghost run, get over confident with your "skills", decide to pick up the pace, only to bump into a guard. All hell breaks loose. You quickload, aaaaand it turns out the last time you quicksaved was at the beginning of the level. Nice going, idiot. Or in Kingdom Come: Deliverance, when you think you're overpowered like in other RPGs. You finish a mission, you're over-encumbered with all the loot and can't fast travel. So, you get on your horse and make for the nearest place with your stash. Mid-way you encounter some bandits, get down to deal with them ('cause you're OP now), aaaaaand they kill you. Mainly because KCD is all about technique and mastery than just stats. So, you reload, do everything as before, but this time you avoid the bandits.... New meaning to the phrase, "walk of shame".

Yeah, one of the problems with the game is that different enemies react to some skills in different ways. Some will be lured by the cards or noises, some will send others to investigate, and some will raise the alarm. So basically you ahve to quick save before trying anything. Shadow Tactics was very good in making every kind of enemy immediately visualy distinct.

I liked Shadow Tactics a lot too, though I like Away Team and Legend of Sherwood more. But that might be just because of the setting. My only real big problem with Shadow Warrior was how most missions only feature only an incomplete team, and choose the characters for you. Not to mention permanently removing one of the characters for the last 1/3 of the game. Being able to pick your squad in AT and LoS was so much fun.

It's just as frustrating, if not more, to realise you quick-saved at the exact second you messed up. So you quick-load hoping to avoid the disaster... and instead get an instant replay of your fuck up.

I'm definitely going to pick it up, but it wasn't that long since I finished the main game, and now after all those hours spent on Desperados, I need a seriously long break from this genre.

Ah, yeah. Had that happened to me, as well. I think it was in Thief Gold, but I can't recall for sure.

Another bad cheating incident:

Final Fantasy 2 US again (again, this is really FF4 simplified):
* Using a walk through walls code, I find Golbez in the Tower of Zot. Normally, when you approach, there's a cutscene that involves Golbez, who then disappears after the cutscene, so you can't actually go right up to him and talk to him. Well, I used a walk through walls code, talked to him, and the game then crashed and deleted some saves.

(By the way, in Final Fantasy 4 GBA 1.0, there's a nasty save deletion bug that can be triggered easily from the menu without cheats. With this and other bugs, if you want to play FF4 GBA, you'll want to avoid the 1.0 version. The 1.0 version, which was released in the US and Japan, was rushed out for the holidays and it shows; Europe got the game later, but they were lucky enough to get the 1.1 version with some bug fixes. Japan also got a 1.1 release (though I don't know how to tell the difference if you want to purchase a Japanese copy; note that apparently bootlegs are common, so getting a legit copy might be tricky), but the US did not; if you want to play this version in English, get the European version.)

Edit: Why the low rating?

About 5 years ago I decided to pull out my disc copy of Commando's, the first game in the series. It installed from disc and ran fine, so off I went. But damn it was hard, I knew it was a difficult game, but things were getting ridiculous. At about halfway through the campaign it got impossible, the reaction times needed were too much. So I looked on Youtube in desperation to see if I was simply missing some game mechanic- something I hadn't thought of. I immediately saw the problem. The game on Youtube was running about 1/3 the speed of mine. In his game the Germans were just lazily wandering around, in my game they were bouncing around the map like they were 5 year old kids dosed up on Red Bull.

It was one of those games tied to CPU speed. I felt really stupid for not realizing, but also rather proud that I made it halfway through using my own ultra hardcore mode. Don't worry the GOG version is patched to avoid that problem.

It is a low point, that´s for sure. And that depresing ending. Agh...

I bought the series this last chrismast sale. Well, except that 5th game which costed more than the 4 previous ones. I didn´t intend to play all of them (including the 2.5 game) but I got hooked and enjoyed them. But I won´t play another p&c/adventure game in a long while.

I liked the 3rd game more than the second. I don´t know if that fits this forum thread. The second felt kind of broken and unfinished to me. Missing parts, annoying puzzles, TWO MAZES, characters behaving kind of evilly at some points...

The ending of the 3rd game was surprising and fun. What the heck! It was the best ending of all.

Yes, excluding awkward controls and camera, part 3 is good game. It has the spirit of the series. It's impressive they managed not only make controls much worse in 4 despite adding mouse support but also made it looking uglier than 3.

I don't mind a tangent, having a good conversation about games is what matters. The OP is for me always just a starting point for that. Of course if you go back on topic later on that great too :D

Anyway, I only ever played the first Broken Sword game, and I wasn't much impressed. I found the story mediocre (even though I'm usually a sucker for any kind of lost treasure/ancient mystery hunt) and a lot of the puzzles were just terrible. I used a walkthrough a lot on that one, and didn't even feel bad, even though I usually hate to resort to that, and do so only in utter desperation. I don't know, maybe it's the Director's Cut, maybe the original was way better?

Yeah, although controls didn´t bother me in the 3rd game. The camera angles were terrible though. Sometimes it doesn´t let you see where you are going. That aside, I enjoyed it very much. Comedy, drama, good dialogs, a good sense of adventure, mistery, a good touch of fantasy...

I didn´t play the "director´s cuts". So, I can´t really tell if there´s much difference. But looking at the screenshots in the gamepages, I dare to say that the "director´s cuts" are a bad joke. I liked the first game pretty much. I found it interesting in all regards: Characters, dialogs, theme, the different locations, etc. Taking into account what you say, I wouldn´t recommend you the second game. But you might find the 3rd one worth playing. It´s different enough when it comes to mechanics and puzzles to perhaps appeal you. More Indiana Jones-like perhaps? And nico is also a character you control during the game.


Going back on topic ;) but without leaving the p&c/adventures genre, I have to confess that the Monkey Island game I liked the most was the 4th one. It´s the one that made me laugh more and I loved the monkey kombat.

I finished Riven some years ago (after owning it for 20 years!), without any online help... except for one part where i just couldn't find out how to progress... in the end it was a door in a tunnel with a Y-junction, if one exit is open the other one is covered by the door and i just didn't see that. Somewhat frustrating ;)

***Warning: spoilers for SiN and Crusader: No Remorse***

So, I was playing SiN, the level where you are mutated into a beast. I thought you had to rebel against your prisoners and fight your way out somehow, so I dutifully proceeded to attack and kill any guard I met. The result: one of the doors to the test chambers did not open. Little did I know you were supposed to follow the guards and wait for them to open the doors for you. I searched like a mad for some hidden lever, all the while making life very hard for myself since the alarm was running and those automatic turrets kept shooting at me. In the end, I thought the game was buggy and used the cheat code that makes you transparent to walls to pass that door. I was misled by two things: 1) your roommate at the start does indeed start a revolt (IIRC) and 2) I knew there was a bug in that level that prevents you from making progress, and indeed there is, but it's a different one of course. Realising my foolishness left a bad taste in my mouth that somewhat accompanied me till the end of the game, which was a pity, since SiN remains one of the funniest and most entertaining games I've ever played, with many clever ideas that create a nice variety. Something similar actually happened to me while playing Crusader: No Remorse. If, for whatever reason, you are interested you can find all the details (and my little rant) in this thread.

Another FF2US example, though this time it wasn't me playing.

The player just killed Milon-Z, then went to the next area, where you enter a special battle, in which you have to do nothing to win. Unfortunately, neither of us realized it, so the battle ended in a loss, forcing the player to go back to the last save point and re-fight Milon-Z.

Final Fantasy 4 seems to be pretty bad in terms of those "gotcha!" moments like that one and the TwinHarp case, and is probably worse than other FF games of that era. With that said, FF5 does have one story battle where it's possible for the player to softlock (but that would require a mistake like casting Berserk when wielding the Healing Staff), and FF6, in the version I played, has some glitches that can crash the game.

With that said, JRPGs are still less buggy than WRPGs in general, mainly because WRPGs have a much higher bug surface than JRPGs.

Just remembered yet another FF2US example:
* Going to the Magnetic Cave when everybody was wearing something made of metal. Got into a battle, and at the start of the battle everybody was permanently paralyzed, at which point the game decided that the party had perished.

Also, in Final Fantasy Mystic Quest I've died to the very first enemy, even on my first play through. Then again, that doesn't cost much time (you can restart the battle with no penalty), and there actually isn't anything I could have done (there's no meaningful choices in this fight, so the outcome is purely RNG dependent).

Edit: Again, why the low rating? Why am I being punished for wanting to participate in an interesting discussion?