Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

What the hell is up with the downvotes? This isn't a political thread, is it? I'm concerned, especially since my last post was essentially "here's some facts about Humble" and nothing more, yet it was downvoted. Also, even if you disagree with him, I have a hard time buying that RWarehall is leading these mass downvotes? This sounds more the doing of some faceless, no-name troll than anything.

Prove it then.....show Gog sales estimates of best zachtronics games vs. Grimoire within the same period or proof of such.

You know what kind of "asset flip games" I meant(the ones steam gets flooded with that many here complain the most about).

Costs mean little if a game sells well and the devs do some of the work(as they should). Also this game has a much higher potential user base to pull from then some such puzzle games and others, so there is/would be more chance of profit.

I never said I did...I just have common sense and can read trends and know what people seem to want more of.

Also you should talk...you seem to think Gog can do no wrong on such matters and it's wrong of people to criticize such. Gog is a big boy/girl....let it defend itself if need be.

One could say the same for the times you've been wrong....I still await you to admit you were wrong on Grimoire(sales potential/etc).

(Also please answer the questions from my prior post if you could, instead of essentially saying "you're wrong and i; right: the post" each time)

As far as I understand, you do not need an account to buy stuff from Humble. When you make a purchase, you get emailed a link to a page with all the game details- keys to redeem if the game is not DRM free, or game downloads if it is DRM free (along with any music or other extras).

If you have an account, or make one later, you can CLAIM THIS PAGE to your account, but if you don't, you have to be careful not to lose the email with the link.

So if Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls does not come to gog, and the publishers are ok with it being DRM free, people should have no issue.

90° turn dungeon crawlers are nowhere near my favourite genre (I like the Grimrock games, but that's about it), even back when they weren't a nostalgia gimmick , so being neither the target audience for it, nor knowledgeable about it in in the least, I'm not specifically speaking of this game and its like, or the quality of this title, but since it has been brought up in this thread...

I'm very happy that gog's curation policy is not "If the game works as a game and isn't an asset flip, let it in".

I'm very happy that gog personally investigates each game (through whatever methodology) and decides whether it should be on the store, rather than charging an up-front $100 and letting in whatever shovelware anyone wants to make- could their methodology be improved? Probably, everything can be improved. Should the curation be removed? Absolutely not.

I'm sad for the legitimate fans of this game if they cannot buy it from here, but happy for them that they have the option to get it DRM-free from the Humble store. I wish the ghouls who have no interest in the game, but latch on to it to push forward their weird agenda against gog would "leave their politics out of gaming" (as they like to say so often).

Fronzel's razor applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by mental illness.

This is the gog forum, after all...

If I may ask.....why does it matter what comes here as long a you can buy what you want and others can buy what they want? :)

I dunno about others, but I don't want it removed......I just want a clear set of guidelines for acceptance/rejection(i.e. not basing it on personal tastes of the team & what they think will be popular, and more selling games that figures and other models show will sell and be easy for Gog to package/sell/promote), and more games(but not all or even most) to be let on.

By calling those who have legitimate(or possibly legitimate) complaints and criticism of Gog curation you are also bringing politics of Gog into it to some degree.

They/we are not all ghouls & most of us want the game...if not for ourselves than because of others who might want it and to help Gog continue to grow. :)
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All the above said, you state your words well and are very civil about it for the most part, and you seem to want others to have access to some games and respect others rights to haves access to games they like.....+1 for all that.

Grimoire is out-selling Molek-Syntez here on this store, no? Btw, this is taking into account that (as you love to point out) Grimoire has been out for many years, also many people hate the developer (both points the opposite for Molek-Syntez). In addition, for months Grimoire had a version sold for the same price DRM-free on a non-Scheme store (itch). It stands to reason that Grimoire sales on GOG would be even bigger without these factors working against it.

Look, sales and reviews on the Scheme monopoly store are a form of data. That is not in argument. The argument is how to value different types of data, including and not limited to that Scheme sales/review data. Your approach seems to be to give it maximum weight, for reasons that still make no sense. What really baffles me though is now you seem to still favor the Scheme data, even once there is actual GOG data to look at instead!

Look in the mirror...you were campaigning so hard against Grimoire being on this store and still won't admit you were wrong. For what it's worth though, my own position is different from GameRager in that I don't want all games here. And like he said t's not a zero sum game where GOG has to accept all or none.

You keep acting as though you hate dungeon-crawler RPGs. There is a proven audience here on this site for them. There may at this point be a proven audience on this site for puzzle games too. What's annoying is the form-letter style rejection of "too niche" when a dungeon crawler RPG is at least the same level of niche as a puzzle game.

In other words, the data for this store (you know, the relevant one, the one we're on) would seem to indicate GOG should accept both niche dungeon crawlers and niche puzzle games, since on this site, those games are not a "niche" in terms of sales.

After reading this thread I tried to get an idea of certain things mentioned here:

Steam sales according to Steamspy:
SpaceChem 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 Owners
Opus Magnum 200,000 - 500,000 Owners
SHENZHEN I/O 200,000 - 500,000 Owners
Infinifactory 200,000 - 500,000 Owners
TIS-100 200,000 - 500,000 Owners
Ironclad Tactics 50,000 - 100,000 Owners
EXAPUNKS 20,000 - 50,000 Owners
Eliza 0 - 20,000 Owners
MOLEK-SYNTEZ 0 - 20,000 Owners

Grimoire 0 - 20,000 Owners

GOG bestselling games without DLCs, demos, unreleased games and free games:

SpaceChem Nr. 412
TIS-100 Nr. 745
SHENZHEN I/O Nr. 991
Infinifactory Nr. 1258
Opus Magnum Nr. 1337
Ironclad Tactics Nr. 1369
EXAPUNKS Nr. 1820
Eliza Nr. 2166
MOLEK-SYNTEZ Nr. 2313

Grimoire Nr. 1885

Whatever the GOG ranking means the pattern looks similar to Steam. The most successful Zachtronics game is SpaceChem. It is followed by the group consisting of Opus Magnum, SHENZHEN I/O, Infinifactory, TIS-100, Ironclad Tactics. I am surprised by the success of TIS-100. "It's the assembly language programming game you never asked for!" (quoting Zachtronics here) I'd argue that this game is even more hardcore than MOLEK-SYNTEZ. The bottom three games are EXAPUNKS, Eliza and MOLEK-SYNTEZ. And the mentioned Grimoire seems to be as successful as this group on both platforms.

But what has this to do with Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls? It is released after having licensing issues this year. And GOG hasn't said anything to this new situation. And I think some news about Wizardry 1-5 would be interesting.

I'm not sure it is reasonable to group Grimoire with those other 3 games. It came out over 2 years ago (on Steam) and MOLEK-SYNTEZ came out 2 months ago. On gog they're more comparable, but you'd still want to wait a while to get more comparable data.

But yeah, dunno what that has to do with this Wizardry game, which has, by basic appearances, far better production quality.

I'd say you nailed it exactly...

We have the same handful of people complaining about GoG curation. If anyone has played this port, it's GoG. Why was it rejected? Was it rejected because it plays poorly and is just a glorified iOS port? Was it just licensing? It's not like this was a great game on the PS3.

The iOS Metacritic average is 62/100.
PS3 57/100.
GamePro 3.5/5 stars
GamesRadar+ 3/5 stars
and 5 other publications rated it from 4/10 to 7.5/10

And anyone who has ever looked at gaming review magazines, even uninspiring games seem to get 8 out of 10.

Maybe it got better...but I trust GoG who may have actually tested it, to tell me whether this game is an awful port over people who seem to like everything no matter how bad the reviews who HAVE NEVER PLAYED THE REMASTER.

I want GoG to bring it here...IF IT IS GOOD...
And to reject it if its a bad mobile port with HD graphics tacked on top or if it still plays like and uninspired console game.
We'll see what happens when it gets released.

This isn't some new game. It's a game from 2009 that wasn't all that good at the time.

The only thing that i know about him that he changed his username .

So Gromoire is at 1885 and has been out a bit less time here than Molek-Syntez...plus we all know that better numbers ramp up copies sold at a semi-exponential increase as numbers decrease, meaning Grimoire likely did a good amount better than the other game in the sameish period of time.....yet Grimoire got rejected initially and Molek-Syntez did not.

It was more to showcase how games have been rejected that(when they are dropped here) seem to generally sell more than many new games added without rejections.

And also bearing in mind that the games usually rejected are in genres that more potential players like, which could potentially(and have shown to) sell more copies than other games with smaller potential fanbases/player bases.

Agreed. Also thanks for all the numbers/data above.

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Because it doesn't support his argument, most likely.

Should there not be a "not that" in front of the word "different" above? I also have the same stance as you. :)

My bet: He might say it's a fluke or some such(the big sales for that one game, I mean)....but if he doesn't i'd be happy to be shown to be wrong. :)
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More like complaining about it's mistakes here and there(at least in my case).

Who cares as long as it would sell well and make Gog money and allow people to buy it here and play it?

As I keep asking(and you keep ignoring): What is more important to Gog? Reviews and scores or profit from copies sold? Does Gog pay it's bills and staff with reviews now?

Your trust in Gog(or seeming trust...could be a ruse) is not a wise move.....it's akin to anyone who trusts those "pro" reviews in mags and on some sites.

Also why not let people buy what they want to buy....it's not like Gog would force you to buy them(some games they rejected) if they let them come here.

That is a selfish view, I think....why does it matter if it's here if you don't have to buy it or play it? I don't like some games much but I still want people to be able to play them if they want.

Who cares if it's a game you or I consider good or is not our thing? They should be sold here if they will sell well, as Gog is a business not a high end shop for rich snobby people who turn their noses up at the "refuse" of "common folk".

I am in favor of curation but think RPGs are particularly popular among GOG's audience, especially old-school minded users, so they should not be getting rejected unless we are talking RPG Maker asset flips. When you (not "you" personally) think about it, the love of RPGs on this store makes a lot of sense. Gamers who like dedicated single player experiences will often gravitate to RPGs, since they're usually designed that way and have a massive amount of content (thus a deeper experience compared to shorter games).

GOG curation have already approved multiple mediocre-looking games with mobile design. That weakens trust and the problem is compounded when the consumer also sees desirable non-mobile-type games getting rejected by curation.

Isn't that stacking the deck quite a bit? Of course the biggest names in RPGs will sell more than lesser known ones. That said, your last sentence is incorrect. I know I personally am willing to buy RPGs without having played them, but not other genres.

What was the discount again? Around 20% or so it seems.....yet you try to act/frame it like it was on sale for a buck or two.

(Also Molek-Syntez was just an off the top of my head example, which is why I used it, though I could likely find better ones with effort.)

That said, the game has been here several weeks longer than Grimoire YET is behind Grimoire by several hundred places on the sales charts.....if you are trying to claim all or most of that is due to people saving 2-3 bucks on the game then fine, but I have a hard time believing that.

(I agree some of it is likely due to the sale, but not most or all...ALSO it is still selling seemingly decently even now AFTER the sale ended.)

They don't always....also I don't think people should just believe anyone without proof or research, whereas you throw out steam data and go "trust me on this".

Also yes, their games ARE n*che compared to big AAA titles in the big genres like RPGs/FPS/etc.

SOME have sold better OVERALL, but some of them have been here much longer than Grimoire......I don't know if I will be proven right but I am willing to BET the numbers do decently well by the time the same amount of time(that those Zachtronics games have been here so far) has passed....and if not the game(Grimoire) has still sold many more copies then you seemed to have claimed it would, making GOG a nice tidy sum.

Your tastes and mine differ, but I would buy it on sale(not because of quality but due to being poorer than most)....though i'd still buy it as it looks good....and i'm near certain others would do the same(Both due to content/genre/series and also to have it DRM free on Gog for some people). Also some might buy it just to see if it's as bad as some like you claim it is....so even more sales.

I don't put faith in them much anymore, but to be fair I don't trust many reviewers/curators.

This is your speculation and guesswork(the starting parts), and it IS canon and an official Wizardry game(afaik).

And tastes are subjective and what one thinks may or may not happen might not always be the case(even I could be wrong on this, and I can at least admit that)

You dislike it but others might not.....why not let people play what they want and be the judge of what they like and want to buy(or not)? :)

I think the point is, Zachtronics games have a much more narrow fanbase than RPGs.