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General discussionAnnouncing The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Expansion Pass(1100 posts)(1100 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 07, 2015
Two full-blown expansions for the epic RPG.




The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is almost here. That means the game is pretty much finished, and the devs are about to take a deep breath while CD-presses and hype machines slowly wind up to take things through the home stretch. It's not gold yet, but now that development is coming to an end, the CD PROJEKT RED team is ready to start their work on two new, ambitious monster-hunting expansions.

The expansions will be called <span class="bold">Hearts of Stone</span>, and <span class="bold">Blood and Wine</span>. Combined, they'll offer over 30 hours of new adventures for Geralt, and the latter introduces a whole new major area to roam. More items, gear, and characters (including a few familiar faces) will all be crafted with the same attention to detail as the game itself.
<span class="bold">Hearts of Stone</span> is a 10-hour adventure across the wilds of No Man's Land and the nooks of Oxenfurt. The secretive Man of Glass has a contract for you - you'll need all your smarts and cunning to untangle a thick web of deceit, investigate the mystery, and emerge in one piece.
<span class="bold"><span class="bold">Blood and Wine</span></span> is the big one, introducing an all-new, playable in-game region to The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. It will take you about 20 hours to discover all of Toussaint, a land of wine, untainted by war. And to uncover the dark, bloody secret behind an atmosphere of carefree indulgence.







There used to be a time when buying an add-on disk or expansion for your game really meant something. That's what CD PROJEKT RED are going for, it's about bringing that old feeling back. You can take it from our very own iWi, (that's Marcin Iwinski, co-founder of CD PROJEKT RED):

"We’ve said in the past that if we ever decide to release paid content, it will be vast in size and represent real value for the money. Both of our expansions offer more hours of gameplay than quite a few standalone games out there.”

Hearts of Stone is expected to premiere this October, while Blood and Wine is slated for release in the first quarter of 2016, so there's still plenty of time ahead. We're offering you the <span class="bold">Expansion Pass</span> now - it's a chance to pre-order the two expansions and even show your support for the devs. But we can't stress Marcin Iwinski's words enough:

“Don’t buy it if you have any doubts. Wait for reviews or play The Witcher and see if you like it first. As always, it’s your call."







The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is just over a month away, and you can pre-order the game right now - it's a particularly great deal if you own the previous Witcher games and take advantage of the additional fan discount (both The Witcher and The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings are 80% off right now!). You can also take a rather unique refresher course on the universe with The Witcher Adventure Game at a 40% discount, all until Thursday, 4:59 PM GMT.
Post edited April 07, 2015 by Chamb
Posted April 09, 2015
high rated
Hello Everyone,

First of all let me thank you for your feedback. Although a bit harsh at times, it is always very passionate, emotional and we really do appreciate it.

I wanted to add a few words to the original press release, which will hopefully shed some more light on the Expansions and the timing of the announcement.

Let me start with the Expansions themselves. The work on The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is almost done and we are waiting for the final certifications. Thanks to it we were able to allocate part of the team onto the expansions. Yes, we have been thinking about it for some time, as with over 250 people on the Witcher team good planning is essential.

Rest assured, there is no hidden agenda or cutting out any content from the game. Both Expansions are being built at this very moment, from the ground up – hence the release dates long after the launch of Wild Hunt. We develop them in-house by the same team, which was working on Wild Hunt. This is the best guarantee we can give you that our goal is to deliver both the story and production values on par with the main game.

Now, on the timing of the announcement - in other words “why now” and not - let’s say – “a few months after the release of Wild Hunt”. The reason is very simple: we want to get the word out about the Expansions to as many gamers as possible out there. There is no better time for it than during the apex of the Marketing & PR campaign of the game. Doing it sometime after the release would mean that our reach would be much smaller.

Yes, we are a business, and yes, we would love to see both the game and the Expansions selling well. Having said that, we always put gamers first and are actually quite paranoid about the fact that whatever we offer is honest, of highest quality, and represents good value for your hard earn buck.

Yes, these are just my words. So let me repeat myself from the original release: if you still have any doubts -- don’t buy the Expansions. Wait for reviews or play The Witcher and see if you like it first. As always, it’s your call.

Cheers,

Marcin
Post edited April 09, 2015 by Destro
Posted April 09, 2015
Wow, I don't log in for a couple of days and I stumble upon a 912 pages thread about expansion packs...

I'm going to be honest, I haven't read everything, but from what I seen there are quite a few complaints as well as a few strange hydrophobic windshields' allegories :-)

As far as I'm concerned I'm as glad to know there will be expansion packs as I was when they announced the Secret Missions for Wing Commander or the Alien Crossfire expansion for Alpha Centauri.

I guess people nowadays are a bit allergic to any additional content labelled as a something-something pass, and I believe this is a good thing. People should be cautious of cheap money-grabbing DLCs, people should vote with their wallets.

Now I wonder how different the reaction would've been if they had announced it differently. What if they had simply said that they had big plans to extend the Witcher 3 experience by planning expansions packs? Nothing more, no pre-ordering yet, no "Pass" in the name.

On another topic I was wondering what I expected from these expansions. I think in order for me to be satisfied with the actual final content I would of course expect a decent amount of added playtime for the money (which seems fine in this case provided the values they gave don't include 50% of grinding or fetch quests).
I also like when expansion packs either blend in with the main game in a way that a final save can be picked up to explore the new content (think Privateer Rigghteous Fire), or alternatively have an expansion pack that is standalone scenario-wise (think Dragon Age Origins' Awakening DLC).

I guess what bothers me the most is I like to have nice boxed copies of games I love, so I'll have to wait until a box including the expansion packs comes out :-(
Posted April 09, 2015
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JMich: Let me counter-quote: See? New area in the expansion. Obviously it's used in the main story.
Yes, SR:DF did mention from the very start that it was standalone, but new area(s) don't always mean they are added to existing story, nor that they are standalone.
Except, Witcher 3 is an open world "roaming" game, while Shadowrun was not. Therefore, the idea that it's included on this open world is quite reasonable, me thinks.
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JMich: Yes, but it does help me when I have something to argue about, even if it does lead to my lynch. Thankfully I've avoided that so far IRL ;)
You do know on the last game I was killed before I could even post once, don't you?
Posted April 09, 2015
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P1na: Except, Witcher 3 is an open world "roaming" game, while Shadowrun was not. Therefore, the idea that it's included on this open world is quite reasonable, me thinks.
Perhaps. Or it could be a side adventure, similar to The Ballad of Gay Tony, or Episodes from Liberty City. After all, GTA 4 could be called an open world as well, right?

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P1na: You do know on the last game I was killed before I could even post once, don't you?
Details.
Posted April 09, 2015
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adaliabooks: But I think this is a really good point... why the hell are you willing to preorder a game, but not the expansion? Your preordering the game presumably because you have faith in and wish to support the developer, but suddenly because they are announcing additional content you can no longer trust them?
Why is the quality of the expansion likely to be any less than that of the game? Ok, it's not as much content, but it's not as expensive (and frankly, the whole price / amount of content thing is difficult to work out with games anyway). Just because it's an extra, you expect it to be of less quality?

I'm fairly opposed to pre-orders these days, and can't really see myself pre-ordering anything any more, but if you are someone who has no problem pre-ordering a game I don't really see how pre-ordering an expansion can be a problem...
I see unaware people in this thread that thought expansions were free in the last 2 games, though they don't exist (maybe they are thinking of the enhanced editions which fixed bugs and added some features ?).

Price is 25€ here: so new game or 2 expansions ? Either way, it is advised to make purchases after having thought about what to buy for some time.

I can only speak for myself: the expansions will be released at a moment where I'll not have a lot time to play, and I'm not buying games so they can collect virtual dust on their exe :)
Post edited April 09, 2015 by TanguyLOZ
Posted April 09, 2015
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JMich: There are already such hydrophobic coats, like Ultra-Ever Dry, but they are not transparent, so not really a good option for windscreens. The challenge is currently making them transparent, and more permanent, since UV light does deteriorate the coating.
But depending on how often your car will get egged, it may be a good investment.
I think e.g. in Thailand some highway robbers do that allegedly, ie. throw eggs on the windshield of the passing car, and when the driver stops to clean it up, rob him/her.

I think it has something to do with the eggs not getting easily wiped off. I guess the egg-white starts getting solid as soon as it hits the hot windshield, and any extra fluids on your wiper cleaner solution won't help either, maybe even make it worse.

All in all, what the world needs is anti-egg windshields.
Post edited April 09, 2015 by timppu
Posted April 09, 2015
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JMich: Perhaps. Or it could be a side adventure, similar to The Ballad of Gay Tony, or Episodes from Liberty City. After all, GTA 4 could be called an open world as well, right?
Not familiar with it, as I didn't play GTA4, but I'll grant that the possibility exists. So, maybe on its own it was not enough to kill my preorder. But when combined with me lacking the hardware to play it to begin with, and the knowledge that the price I was paying was no longer the that fullest edition I wanted...
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JMich: Details.
linky
Posted April 09, 2015
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Davane: None of this gets around the fact that CDPR have taken a DLC Season Pass, and rebranded it as an Expansion Pass, so that they can maintain that they are champions of the games industry and better than other companies, when in fact they are doing the exact same thing. The fact that CDPR somehow thinks that we are stupid enough, naive enough, or simply trusting enough to go "well that's all right then, carry on."

I am not against DLC - I am against companies that try to rebrand their DLC as something more than what it is.
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Maighstir: What are your definitions of "Expansion" and "DLC"? What features distinguish the terms from each other as far as you're concerned?
Oooh, a toughy!

Okay, For me DLC is just downloadable content - be it patch, map pack, mod, or expansion.

However, for me, an expansion is specifically a bunch of new content that extends and expands the game in new ways. This does vary depending upon the game - some games obviously have more scope for expansion than others. Ideally, I am looking towards new gameplay updates.

As such, all Expansions are inherently DLC (in the age of digital distribution), but not all DLCs can be classified as Expansions.

From what I have seen of the Expansion Pass, the content within doesn't appear to qualify as expansions, either singular or combined.

It's like saying that the Kingmaker Module for NWN is an 'Expansion' - it isn't. Hordes of the Underdark is an expansion for NWN. Kingmaker is a Module.

I guess a lot of this comes from me as a table roleplayer/board gamer. Aside from the metagame products and accessories, you get two basic types of products: Rules/Sourcebooks and Adventures. I would consider the first to be an "Expansion" where as I do not consider the second to be. This is because the two products have different scopes.

Likewise, I see an expansion has having different scope than other types of DLC. Neither of the options offered up by CDPR share the scope of an Expansion in my view at this point. It doesn't mean that they are not viable as DLC - just that I fail to see how these offerings are different from other forms of DLC in the past.

It has been argued that TW3 is likely to only have additional story content as a story-driven game. That's fine, and I agree with that. However, that means that what CDPR are offering is your standard DLC Season Pass for episodic content. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I just wish that CDPR would not perpetuate such confusion that leads to the inevitable sense of betrayal that results from them appearing to be champions against all DLC when they are not, and this provokes people to support a company that they would not have considered supporting.
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Davane: So, basically, your new analogy wasn't that good of an analogy after all...

The thing is, what I am reading here is that the focus is more on supporting CDPR.

Much like a sports team, really. But then said sports team suddenly decides that they want to try different, but similar sports (in the UK, that would be like a footballer taking up rugby). You don't know how good they are at the new sport, but you can't be sure that the support you are giving them is actually going to the sport you already support, and thus you have decided to withdraw your support until you can determine whether they deserve the support for this new sport as well as the sport you originally supported them for.

Is that a better analogy, P1na? Don't worry, I am sure that you can now use your pre-order money to buy even more cheap copies of Deus Ex to give away... :D
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P1na: Not really. I'm bad with cars, but even worse with sports, you see... I've never supported a team, so it's kind of hard to relate to it. Unless it was someone playing against Spain, but that was just me wanting Spain to lose, I'd say it hardly counts.

I honestly don't know how to phrase it better. I have limited time to play, therefore when I play a game I want to play the fullest, most complete version I possibly can. And not only is that version of witcher 3 considerably more expensive after the announcement, I'm not even fully certain that buying the base game and the expansion pass will get me that most complete version (think of the Director's cut of DX:HR or Strike suit zero). So I no longer want to preorder.

Is this more clear?
Oh, right. So, you want the complete, end of lifecycle package that will result when they are working on The Witcher 4? I guess that makes sense - but why pre-order it in the first place, when you know that it is unlikely to be finished before they announce TW4?
Post edited April 09, 2015 by Davane
Posted April 09, 2015
These two expansions are no less expansions than those that say Duke Nukem 3D, Quake or Half-Life 1 received.
Posted April 09, 2015
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Davane: Oh, right. So, you want the complete, end of lifecycle package that will result when they are working on The Witcher 4? I guess that makes sense - but why pre-order it in the first place, when you know that it is unlikely to be finished before they announce TW4?
Because on the previous 2 games, a preorder would have eventually become that end of lifecycle package. It was a business model I liked and I felt like supporting with a full price purchase, instead of a 5 buck purchase 4 years from now (or a free gift on a GOG event).
Posted April 09, 2015
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Davane: Okay, For me DLC is just downloadable content - be it patch, map pack, mod, or expansion.
So my oft linked 1989 map pack is a DLC? I thought that was called an expansion back in the day O_o
Posted April 09, 2015
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Kristian: These two expansions are no less expansions than those that say Duke Nukem 3D, Quake or Half-Life 1 received.
Except that was almost 20 years ago...

Yes, there have always been dire expansions, but that still doesn't justify making dire expansions now.

Would you truly be happy and satisfied with expansions that were of the quality of those on a C64 just because those expansions were made in the past?
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Davane: Oh, right. So, you want the complete, end of lifecycle package that will result when they are working on The Witcher 4? I guess that makes sense - but why pre-order it in the first place, when you know that it is unlikely to be finished before they announce TW4?
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P1na: Because on the previous 2 games, a preorder would have eventually become that end of lifecycle package. It was a business model I liked and I felt like supporting with a full price purchase, instead of a 5 buck purchase 4 years from now (or a free gift on a GOG event).
It is just a shame that that wasn't their business model after all.

How do you know that these two "expansions" are the last of them to be made for TW3?

Yours may not be a standard viewpoint, but it is an understandable one.
Post edited April 09, 2015 by Davane
Posted April 09, 2015
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Kristian: If you aren't against preordering in general then presumably you have some criteria you use to evalueate preorder offers, if the The Witcher 3 preorder offer passed the test a week ago, nothing has changed to make it fail that test now.
Well there are a few people that are against preordering in general but were willing to make an exception to support CDPR secure in the knowledge that they would get anything and everything related to the game similar to the previous Witcher games without any additional content being sold separately.

Obviously this new information about the expansions has shattered their belief as CDPR is now selling a Season Pass just like most of the other AAA developers, so thats why some of the reaction you are observing is harsh as these folks don't like buying game content in the form of piecemeal. Granted the option is now available to buy the game+expansions but that makes it takes a bigger toll on the wallets of folks like P1na at the moment so they will wait for the eventual full version.

Marcin's post made it clear that CDPR like any other business is in it to make as much money as possible and not do things any differently then the marketing strategies employed by other companies out there. But they intend to differ in terms of offering real value for money with actual significant add-on content. But so early in the stage of development while The Witcher 3 isn't even out yet, it is not possible to ascertain whether the expansions will be worthwhile for the asking price as only time will tell.
Post edited April 09, 2015 by stg83
Posted April 09, 2015
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Davane: Okay, For me DLC is just downloadable content - be it patch, map pack, mod, or expansion.
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JMich: So my oft linked 1989 map pack is a DLC? I thought that was called an expansion back in the day O_o
Can you link it again... I miss it...
Posted April 09, 2015
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JMich: So my oft linked 1989 map pack is a DLC? I thought that was called an expansion back in the day O_o
Everything is DLC now thanks to whoever introduced the ridiculous term which makes it difficult to distinguish between useless and actually worthwhile content. CDPR can try by calling theirs Expansion Pass but that won't change how the add-ons are perceived these days :)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/07/the-witcher-3-will-have-30-hours-worth-of-expansion-dlc/
Posted April 09, 2015
Hands up everyone who has managed to read and absorb every post? I salute you ;)

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eligamer: Upon re-reading for errors I was struck that another reason is that CDPR may be cash strapped and in dire need of instant funds
This brings to mind the recent revelations about Obsidian: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-03-11-before-pillars-of-eternity-obsidian-nearly-met-its-end

If I try to imagine a world without CDPR, my mind fills with horror. I just recently finished my third playthrough of TW2 and my first time through the EE. Like my first playthroughs, the sophistication of the story telling blows me away; the multiple threads that all come together, the believable characters who all have their own motivations, driven variously by greed, power, meaness etc, the morally grey decisions, the way innocuous and plain sounding lines of dialogue are revealed to hold hidden gems of information that you only realise on a second playthorugh. And then with the EE, the Lilies and Vipers quest was amazing. I think the best advertisement for TW3 is to replay TW2. Seriously.

I only recently preordered TW3. I've been very skeptical if CDPR can deliver such an ambitious game but then I read that apparently TW2 had 6 quest designers and TW3 has about 14: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-3-preview-how-to-build-an-rpg-with-36-endings/. And I've also been following the http://www.hellblade.com/ blog, which is a fascinating insight into what making a game involves and how established conventions can be bucked by thinking differently. In other words, ME, which I love, doesn't have the same branching as TW2 and as TW3 promises because Bioware didn't prioritise it and similarly, Skyrim, which I haven't played also has a different focus, whereas CDPR very well could change the landscape just by focusing their resources differently. So I am now moderately optimistic that CDPR will deliver on at least the key spirit of their promises, even if there will inevitably be flaws as there are in any ambitious project.

Back to the quote above, if they really are strapped for cash then I'm more inclined to preorder the expansions even though as a consumer, it makes more rational sense to wait and see. I want CDPR to keep making amazing games, not only TW3 but I want to see Cyberpunk 2077.

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Kristian: Games are much much, much, much, much more expensive now. You used to be able to put out a game that could sell into the millions in 10 - 20 man years. Now you need 100s of man years in order to get sales like that. Marcin Iwinski mentioned 250 people working on TW3.
<snip/>
If CDPR doesn't have the use for the staff on other projects(say if Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't need more people at this point in its development)... then that leaves DLC/expansions or laying them off. I know which of the two solutions I prefer!
^^^Exactly this^^^. If I add the cost of the base game and the expansion pass together, it actually doesn't seem like an inappropriate value for money at all, given what it takes to create it and how much enjoyment I'll likely get out of it. Quite the contrary in fact. I've payed comparatively more for games that are much shorter but which I really, really enjoyed, which made them worthwhile. Add to that the fact that CDPR is releasing it DRM free, then well, it's value only rises further. The main reason I support GOG is the lack of DRM. I hope TW3 sells heaps, CDPR can thumb their noses at those other publishers and then they all follow and remove DRM too.

Others have mentioned the regional pricing issue as another, err, slope on the slippery slope ... errr ... but to me, CDPR and GOG cannot exist in a vacuum. They still need to rely on physical publishing for some section of sales and once you do, you absolutely cannot undercut those partners, which then means aligning with the regional pricing that they dictate. _But_ what other company compensates you for this price difference? I think GOG and CDPR are generally both as fair as they can be given the realities of business.

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iWi: Now, on the timing of the announcement - in other words “why now” and not - let’s say – “a few months after the release of Wild Hunt”. The reason is very simple: we want to get the word out about the Expansions to as many gamers as possible out there. There is no better time for it than during the apex of the Marketing & PR campaign of the game. Doing it sometime after the release would mean that our reach would be much smaller.
I, too, thank Marcin for his update. That makes some sense but I would have thought that there'd be even more excitement just after release when players are being wowed by the game. On the other hand, I plead ignorance about marketing and PR. Also, is actually selling it as a preorder necessary rather than just a coming soon placeholder? That really seems to be a stand out point for many.

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iWi: So let me repeat myself from the original release: if you still have any doubts -- don’t buy the Expansions. Wait for reviews or play The Witcher and see if you like it first. As always, it’s your call.
Contrary to the financial health speculation above, I wonder if the above quote actually indicates a supreme confidence on CDPR's part. It's like they're saying, we really don't mind if you don't order it now because we know you will absolutely want it once you experience TW3 :)
Post edited April 09, 2015 by twistedpony
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionAnnouncing The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - Expansion Pass(1100 posts)(1100 posts)
(1100 posts)