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Gilozard: 1) There is no way to argue with the fact that MS removed functionality from Windows Update. After a significant outcry and nuking people's computers with bad drivers they released a hidden tool that lets users remove a bad update after it has been installed. This in now way replaces the efficient and effective abilities Windows Update has prior to Win10.
The script to disable automatic updates was first posted on July 18th. The script to select what updates to download was last updated on December 18th. While the current update system may be less convenient than the previous one, the possibility of disabling automatic updates and selectively install the ones you want was there before the NVidia driver problem.

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Gilozard: 2) No, the Metro UI is not optional. For one thing, MS has changed many GUIs for desktop programs / etc to mimic the Metro look, which is less functional (harder to distinguish separate elements) and which many people find ugly / cartoonish. For another, the new Start menu has been completely Metro-ized, and lots of included apps are Metro-style.
I did say Modern UI, didn't I? By which I mean the drag down to minimize, wave cursor around to have menus appear etc. Check screenshot for what my desktop looks like. Totally different from what my Win7 looked like *rolls eyes*

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Gilozard: The cloud crap is only 'optional' if users are willing to go into the registry, change service permissions, etc. Removing OneDrive integration, for example, is impossible for the average user. This isn't 'optional', this is MS burying any options beyond the reach of the average person so they can forcibly lock users into their cloud.
No idea about this. I did have OneDrive from before, since I am using it, but right clicking on the OneDrive app (not the desktop one) does give me the option to uninstall it. On the other hand, the OneDrive folder is the only thing that gets synced, since I did check the options instead of just clicking next.
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Gilozard: 1) There is no way to argue with the fact that MS removed functionality from Windows Update. After a significant outcry and nuking people's computers with bad drivers they released a hidden tool that lets users remove a bad update after it has been installed. This in now way replaces the efficient and effective abilities Windows Update has prior to Win10.
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JMich: The script to disable automatic updates was first posted on July 18th. The script to select what updates to download was last updated on December 18th. While the current update system may be less convenient than the previous one, the possibility of disabling automatic updates and selectively install the ones you want was there before the NVidia driver problem.

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Gilozard: 2) No, the Metro UI is not optional. For one thing, MS has changed many GUIs for desktop programs / etc to mimic the Metro look, which is less functional (harder to distinguish separate elements) and which many people find ugly / cartoonish. For another, the new Start menu has been completely Metro-ized, and lots of included apps are Metro-style.
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JMich: I did say Modern UI, didn't I? By which I mean the drag down to minimize, wave cursor around to have menus appear etc. Check screenshot for what my desktop looks like. Totally different from what my Win7 looked like *rolls eyes*

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Gilozard: The cloud crap is only 'optional' if users are willing to go into the registry, change service permissions, etc. Removing OneDrive integration, for example, is impossible for the average user. This isn't 'optional', this is MS burying any options beyond the reach of the average person so they can forcibly lock users into their cloud.
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JMich: No idea about this. I did have OneDrive from before, since I am using it, but right clicking on the OneDrive app (not the desktop one) does give me the option to uninstall it. On the other hand, the OneDrive folder is the only thing that gets synced, since I did check the options instead of just clicking next.
1) I'll repeat - hidden admin tools that need active user involvement to download and forum-made scripts are NOT a replacement for removed OS functionality.

2) Are you seriously trying to pretend that MS has not completely changed their GUI guidelines and design standards? Because that's crazy - the look of MS programs across the board has changed (except for where they can't be bothered to be consistent, 'cause that's how MS rolls). Yes, Win10 is still Windows, but the look and feel are completely different and people keep getting switched from one interface to the other. It's better than Win8, but not by much. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but it bothers a lot of people. Or confuses them to the point of helplessness, which makes me want to tear my hair out.

3) Yeah, removing cloud integration is a complete pain in the ass, not available to the average user at all, and difficult to turn off without removing to boot. My options for Win10 in this office are:
a) Remove OneDrive completely, or
b) Deal with people mistakenly saving things to the cloud, or thinking they've saved them to Dropbox when it's really OneDrive, etc.
Both are going to be a hassle.
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Gilozard: The cloud crap is only 'optional' if users are willing to go into the registry, change service permissions, etc. Removing OneDrive integration, for example, is impossible for the average user. This isn't 'optional', this is MS burying any options beyond the reach of the average person so they can forcibly lock users into their cloud.
Um, if you don't want to use it, don't sign in. It does take some resources, which is ridiculous, but still.

As far as the P2P goes, it's probably better than the previous system. You can not just disable it, but you can also restrict it to the same network, meaning that on a metered connection with more than one Win 10 computer you'd actually be saving bandwidth.

Also, does it even use the P2P feature if you tell it you're on a metered connection?

Reinstalling yet again because it's not possible to export a virtualbox VM and the re-import it without having to do the activation. Very, annoying.
Post edited July 30, 2015 by hedwards
On my fucking gawd, I finally figured out my start menu issues! Apparently, when MS was coding the new start menu, one of their idiot programmers decided that setting a limit on the number of shortcuts the menu will handle was a good idea. He/she set that limit at 512 items. My start menu, with all the game shortcuts I have installed (plus their accompanying uninstall, game manual, dev website, configuration app, etc. shortcuts) added up to 947 items. A little less than half my shortcuts were never going to appear in the start menu. After cleaning out a few shortcuts (110), now the one shortcut that started this whole thing (Steam) is finally available. Looks like I'll be spending the rest of the day picking through the rest of my shortcuts to get rid another 300 or so before the start menu is useful.
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Atlantico: Only catch is... what he says is not true. Anyone can downgrade from Windows 10 to whatever Windows version they upgraded from until the end-of-life for that OS. So until 2020 for Windows 7.

Goddammit people, stop with this internet voodoo advice. "I heard it on teh intarwebs so it must be true!!!111!"
If you did read my post then you would have seen that I did not given an advice neither did i say that it is right which I indicated by saying "As far as I know". However, yes you were right and I was wrong.
Post edited July 30, 2015 by Xerafex
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cogadh: On my fucking gawd, I finally figured out my start menu issues! Apparently, when MS was coding the new start menu, one of their idiot programmers decided that setting a limit on the number of shortcuts the menu will handle was a good idea. He/she set that limit at 512 items. My start menu, with all the game shortcuts I have installed (plus their accompanying uninstall, game manual, dev website, configuration app, etc. shortcuts) added up to 947 items. A little less than half my shortcuts were never going to appear in the start menu. After cleaning out a few shortcuts (110), now the one shortcut that started this whole thing (Steam) is finally available. Looks like I'll be spending the rest of the day picking through the rest of my shortcuts to get rid another 300 or so before the start menu is useful.
That is nuts. Seriously, MS devs?

Installing Classic Shell sounds a lot easier.
Post edited July 30, 2015 by Gilozard
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KingofGnG: Yep, Windows 10 is the best Windows ever. If you are a retarded monkey, who never used a computer, and have a QI 100 points below the Forrest Gump level.
....

IQ*


(couldn`t resist haha)
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Gilozard: The cloud crap is only 'optional' if users are willing to go into the registry, change service permissions, etc. Removing OneDrive integration, for example, is impossible for the average user. This isn't 'optional', this is MS burying any options beyond the reach of the average person so they can forcibly lock users into their cloud.
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hedwards: Um, if you don't want to use it, don't sign in. It does take some resources, which is ridiculous, but still.

As far as the P2P goes, it's probably better than the previous system. You can not just disable it, but you can also restrict it to the same network, meaning that on a metered connection with more than one Win 10 computer you'd actually be saving bandwidth.

Also, does it even use the P2P feature if you tell it you're on a metered connection?

Reinstalling yet again because it's not possible to export a virtualbox VM and the re-import it without having to do the activation. Very, annoying.
On 5 year old cheap Dell workstations, there aren't a lot of free resources to spend on uselessness.

P2P can have major advantages, but defaulting every user to P2P is not a good idea. It's literally MS creating a Windows Update botnet, and I hope we don't have to outline all the ways that could go wrong. It's a really neat idea and I'm glad they put it in, but someone at MS needs to stop setting defaults.
Post edited July 30, 2015 by Gilozard
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cogadh: On my fucking gawd, I finally figured out my start menu issues! Apparently, when MS was coding the new start menu, one of their idiot programmers decided that setting a limit on the number of shortcuts the menu will handle was a good idea. He/she set that limit at 512 items. My start menu, with all the game shortcuts I have installed (plus their accompanying uninstall, game manual, dev website, configuration app, etc. shortcuts) added up to 947 items. A little less than half my shortcuts were never going to appear in the start menu. After cleaning out a few shortcuts (110), now the one shortcut that started this whole thing (Steam) is finally available. Looks like I'll be spending the rest of the day picking through the rest of my shortcuts to get rid another 300 or so before the start menu is useful.
That's good to know, the indexing and start menu are my biggest issues right now too.

I was wondering why 1/2 my shit isn't in there. Does that also affect stuff not even showing up in a search? After indexing twice my ext2 manager still won't show up in a search,
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snowkatt: snip...
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catpower1980: I'm really curious of the default graphic drivers because on my fucked up laptop, default windows7 settings are stuck in 640x480 or 1024x768 (16/9 screen originally)
This happened to me this morning after the update. I had to redownload Geforce Experience and the relevant drivers, but after a restart, everything self-corrected. Quite the annoyance to begin my experience with. After, though, it's pretty decent.
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hedwards: Um, if you don't want to use it, don't sign in. It does take some resources, which is ridiculous, but still.

As far as the P2P goes, it's probably better than the previous system. You can not just disable it, but you can also restrict it to the same network, meaning that on a metered connection with more than one Win 10 computer you'd actually be saving bandwidth.

Also, does it even use the P2P feature if you tell it you're on a metered connection?

Reinstalling yet again because it's not possible to export a virtualbox VM and the re-import it without having to do the activation. Very, annoying.
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Gilozard: On 5 year old cheap Dell workstations, there aren't a lot of free resources to spend on uselessness.

P2P can have major advantages, but defaulting every user to P2P is not a good idea. It's literally MS creating a Windows Update botnet, and I hope we don't have to outline all the ways that could go wrong. It's a really neat idea and I'm glad they put it in, but someone at MS needs to stop setting defaults.
I tend to agree, but they're hardly the only ones. Blizzard has been doing that for probably at least 10 years with WoW updates.
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Gilozard: 1) I'll repeat - hidden admin tools that need active user involvement to download and forum-made scripts are NOT a replacement for removed OS functionality.
The scripts are for those that don't know what to change. Similar to a game bundled with DOSBox instead of the game files and DOSBox as separate things you have to mix yourself.
Updates could be disabled and selectively installed for at least a month, assuming one knows what he's doing. If he doesn't know, then automatic updates are recommended.

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Gilozard: 2) Are you seriously trying to pretend that MS has not completely changed their GUI guidelines and design standards? Because that's crazy - the look of MS programs across the board has changed (except for where they can't be bothered to be consistent, 'cause that's how MS rolls). Yes, Win10 is still Windows, but the look and feel are completely different and people keep getting switched from one interface to the other. It's better than Win8, but not by much. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but it bothers a lot of people. Or confuses them to the point of helplessness, which makes me want to tear my hair out.
Let me put it this way. I don't care what the icons look like, as long as they do their job. I didn't mind the ribbon change on Office 2007, since the keyboard shortcuts still worked, and it wasn't that different from before. I do think I'm able to adapt to changes, especially if they are only visual ones.

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Gilozard: 3) Yeah, removing cloud integration is a complete pain in the ass, not available to the average user at all, and difficult to turn off without removing to boot. My options for Win10 in this office are:
a) Remove OneDrive completely, or
b) Deal with people mistakenly saving things to the cloud, or thinking they've saved them to Dropbox when it's really OneDrive, etc.
Both are going to be a hassle.
gpedit.msc -> Local Computer Policy -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> OneDrive and set it to disabled. If you are in a company, you really should learn to use the Group Policy Editor.
And it is literally a single setting, with a "not configured, disabled, enabled" option.

P.S. Before complaining about other stuff that is not available, dig through the policy editor first.
I admit that I am a retarded monkey with an IQ less than 100, and I find Win10 perfectly adequate to both my gaming and work needs so far. OneDrive synching of all the document folder-related files and whatever you put it on (like my graphic design apps installers) is really sweet. If this is the Windows OS that'll be only updated for 20-30 years (which i find unlikely, considering shifting trends in tablet market and overall UI designs) then I'm fine with it.
I'm sure Windows X is far superior to Windows 8, but as the saying goes, "Don't fix something that isn't broke".
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oldschool: I'm sure Windows X is far superior to Windows 8, but as the saying goes, "Don't fix something that isn't broke".
You are right. Why use TFT or IPS monitors, when the old 15" CRT ones aren't broken. Why move to DSL or Cable when Dial-Up still works just fine. SSD? My mechanical drives still work, no need to upgrade.