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Johnathanamz: By 2015 when MicroSoft released Windows 10 there were 1 billion PC's world wide that still had Windows XP installed.

Linux is only 1% of the PC video games market on Steam and I expect in the next five months it will go back down to 90% or 80%.

Also look at China a country where the Chinese communist party has strict control you would think people would use Linux more in China so MicroSoft does not spy on then, but Windows is the most pirated Operating System (OS) in China.
And yet, Linux is the most used OS overall if you go beyond just desktop.

Embedded OS in devices, cell phones, servers, etc. Also, Playstation uses FreeBSD (not Linux, but one of its Unix siblings).

The point I'm trying to make is that anyone who packages the nice super user-friendly gaming platform you don't know about yet for you to game on in the future is likely to be using Linux or some Linux variant underneath. They're not gonna write their own OS from scratch and they won't want to have to ask permission from Microsoft or Apple to do whatever they want to do.

You won't even care that it's Linux underneath, because whoever packaged it will have added all the nice UI stuff you've come to expect (kinda like Google did with Android). Linux is just an OS. It's not opinionated on things like what UI is running on top of it.

Windows is running on past momentum. Linux is the future, because anybody can build on it. That's what anybody who comes up with the next big thing is likely to be using.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
Also, folks, this idea that GoG and CD Projekt are some kind of tiny niche company, and therefore unable to afford developers, needs to go away. They are the biggest video game company in Europe, worth close to 10 billion USD, that makes billions. They employ over a thousand people. They can afford to develop for Linux, they just choose not to. Simple as that.
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Johnathanamz: By 2015 when MicroSoft released Windows 10 there were 1 billion PC's world wide that still had Windows XP installed.

Linux is only 1% of the PC video games market on Steam and I expect in the next five months it will go back down to 90% or 80%.

Also look at China a country where the Chinese communist party has strict control you would think people would use Linux more in China so MicroSoft does not spy on then, but Windows is the most pirated Operating System (OS) in China.
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Magnitus: And yet, Linux is the most used OS overall if you go beyond just desktop.

Embedded OS in devices, cell phones, servers, etc. Also, Playstation uses FreeBSD (not Linux, but one of its Unix siblings).

The point I'm trying to make is that anyone who packages the nice super user-friendly gaming platform you don't know about yet for you to game on in the future is likely to be using Linux or some Linux variant underneath. They're not gonna write their own OS from scratch and they won't want to have to ask permission from Microsoft or Apple to do whatever they want to do.

You won't even care that it's Linux underneath, because whoever packaged it will have added all the nice UI stuff you've come to expect (kinda like Google did with Android). Linux is just an OS. It's not opinionated on things like what UI is running on top of it.

Windows is running on past momentum. Linux is the future, because anybody can build on it. That's what anybody who comes up with the next big thing is likely to be using.
Oh cool Linux is the most used Operating System (OS) on cell phones and on PlayStation (PS). It will never be mainstream on PC.

Let me laugh right in front of your face hahahaha keep dreaming your wonderful dreams.
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Johnathanamz: Oh cool Linux is the most used Operating System (OS) on cell phones and on PlayStation (PS). It will never be mainstream on PC.

Let me laugh right in front of your face hahahaha keep dreaming your wonderful dreams.
Under normal circumstances, I'd really love to ask you some questions about your line of thought (specifically with regard to your ardent will to support Microsoft products which I think if we go to the root of what you truly deeply want might be misplaced unless you are professionally affiliated to Microsoft in some way), but it would derail the thread so I'll leave it at you laughing.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
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Johnathanamz: Oh cool Linux is the most used Operating System (OS) on cell phones and on PlayStation (PS). It will never be mainstream on PC.

Let me laugh right in front of your face hahahaha keep dreaming your wonderful dreams.
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Magnitus: Under normal circumstances, I'd really love to ask you some questions about your line of thought (specifically with regard to your ardent will to support Microsoft products which I think if we go to the root of what you truly deeply want might be misplaced unless you are professionally affiliated to Microsoft in some way), but it would derail the thread so I'll leave it at you laughing.
One company to rule them all and no other to take top spot.

I only use one product of a company, usually and for desktop PC for me it is Windows, so MicroSoft is the number one for me.

I purchased ten shares of MicroSoft shares in 2010, which is now worth over $335 or so dollars (USD) per share now.

No point for me to switch to Linux ever. I did use it once in 2011. I do have a PC with no Windows installed and no Linux installed, but I am keeping it as a back up to install Linux if MicroSoft gets more to locking Windows down more than ever in the future. UWP apps suck. I am very happy MicroSoft started embracing Steam and releasing the PC versions of the video games that they publish on Steam for sale.
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Johnathanamz: Oh really tens of millions of people use Linux?
Actually, much more than that. Billions of people would be closer to the real picture.

All of Internet infrastructure runs on Linux. Almost all smartphones and other handheld devices run on Linux. Most embedded devices run on Linux.

Windows is only used in a tiny niche that might not have a lot of time remaining. Even Microsoft is realizing that and are slowly switching to Linux for more and more of their services over the recent years. WSL (and now WSL2) looks like a desperate move on their part to keep Windows used in enterprises, but even there their time is close to its end.

Windows is a zombie already. You will have to deal with it at some point.
Don’t worry about your Microsoft shares, they still have XBox that is not going away. But little else, since they totally missed the move to smartphones due to their laughingly bad management.
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Magnitus: If you include the world-wide developer population, the figure is not too far-fetched.

The estimated figure I recall reading is 2% of the desktop share. How many desktop users do you think there are world-wide? Quite a few...

I won't argue that it's a relatively small slice of the desktop pie, but still, if you want some independence from the whims of a single corporate overlord (in the case of Windows, Microsoft and in the case of MacOS, Apple), which any vendor craves (especially giants like Google and Steam), Linux is the main game in town.

If a mainstream desktop gaming alternative appears in the upcoming years, it will most likely be based on it (some new custom Linux distribution or otherwise a separate fork of Linux with various adaptations... that's what Android is btw).

People often talk about technicalities (and they do matter), but ultimately, its the social significance of a mature, battle-tested and free (both as in free beer and free speech) OS that is huge.
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Johnathanamz: By 2015 when MicroSoft released Windows 10 there were 1 billion PC's world wide that still had Windows XP installed.

Linux is only 1% of the PC video games market on Steam and I expect in the next five months it will go back down to 90% or 80%.

Also look at China a country where the Chinese communist party has strict control you would think people would use Linux more in China so MicroSoft does not spy on then, but Windows is the most pirated Operating System (OS) in China.
oh that is against the popular belief among linuxers , that windows is only used because it is the os the laptops and premade desktops come with

looks like people chose win over linux even when it is free and they need to install the os
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Johnathanamz: Windows is the most pirated Operating System (OS) in China.
That's irrelevant when comparing to Linux because you don't have to pirate Linux.
Soooo

I have made a fair effort a number of times across my years working in the industry to try and offer more Linux support. Here's what I found -


* Linux users are passionate, even to a fault - Reaching out to the Linux communities tends to be wild west. One of the biggest gaming circles around pretty much stuck to fingers up...which does nothing to help their cause?

* Resources > Results - It takes time, resources and money to bring a title to Linux and if the site/store/dev is niche as it is, the linux support takes a tumble down the line of 'what should be done'.

* There is a market there - Undoubtedly there is a market that should be tapped into, but doing it is another thing entirely. Same with Mac.

If I had any suggestions for trying to court more support they would be -

Show the passion and the reason, but don't use that as a platform to act like a dick or speak down to people who don't know what Linux is or why they should care, teaching and informing is fun if you want it to be.

Patience - Smaller studios can't always provide the support ASAP and they tend to have a fair amount on their plate post-release. In the cases with publishers attached, it might even be hard depending on who the publisher is and how they view the market. Same for Storefronts.

I want games to be open to people regardless of their OP, that's why I took time to try make it happen, I'm not unique there's plenty of people trying to do the exact same.
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Johnathanamz: Oh really tens of millions of people use Linux?
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vv221: Actually, much more than that. Billions of people would be closer to the real picture.

All of Internet infrastructure runs on Linux. Almost all smartphones and other handheld devices run on Linux. Most embedded devices run on Linux.

Windows is only used in a tiny niche that might not have a lot of time remaining. Even Microsoft is realizing that and are slowly switching to Linux for more and more of their services over the recent years. WSL (and now WSL2) looks like a desperate move on their part to keep Windows used in enterprises, but even there their time is close to its end.

Windows is a zombie already. You will have to deal with it at some point.
Don’t worry about your Microsoft shares, they still have XBox that is not going away. But little else, since they totally missed the move to smartphones due to their laughingly bad management.
Here in the United States of America Windows is used everywhere in businesses.

My dentists office has Windows 10 installed everywhere on their PC's when I went in for a check up four days ago.

I passed by a Burger King when I was driving to the grocery store and the Burger King on the order menu I saw Windows 7 on the screen. The grocery store I was in used Windows 10.

MicroSoft's Asure is the biggest server thing MicroSoft has although I think MicroSoft's Asure uses Linux.

Every corporation is preferring to use MicroSoft's Asure more than anything from Amazon.
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Johnathanamz: Here in the United States of America Windows is used everywhere in businesses.
Linux even moreso for reasons already listed.

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Johnathanamz: My dentists office has Windows 10 installed everywhere on their PC's when I went in for a check up four days ago.
Yes, regular people often use Windows on desktops. I just think you're overinflating the importance of desktops compared to everything else.

Functional distributed computing systems need servers, networking equipment and other hardware devices, and occasionally they need a general purpose desktop (but not always, often, they'll want a specialised end-user interfaces that doesn't give the end-user too much room to stray from the intended purpose of the system which a generic Windows desktop definitely would).

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Johnathanamz: I passed by a Burger King when I was driving to the grocery store and the Burger King on the order menu I saw Windows 7 on the screen. The grocery store I was in used Windows 10.
Grocery stores in my area most likely use some Unix variant. Their systems are very custom.

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Johnathanamz: MicroSoft's Asure is the biggest server thing MicroSoft has although I think MicroSoft's Asure uses Linux.
I believe Azure runs on Windows, although Windows nowadays have a thick Linux compatibility layer. Linux is the dominant operating system for servers and they had to adapt to the times.

For sure, you can run Linux guest vms on Azure. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot royally if they didn't support that.

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Johnathanamz: Every corporation is preferring to use MicroSoft's Asure more than anything from Amazon.
I can't say I'm happy about that either, but I need to fact-check you here. AWS is the giant in the room and everybody else is playing catchup.

Overall, last time I checked, Azure accounted for about 20% of the cloud space.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
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Johnathanamz: Here in the United States of America Windows is used everywhere in businesses.
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Magnitus: Linux even moreso for reasons already listed.

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Johnathanamz: My dentists office has Windows 10 installed everywhere on their PC's when I went in for a check up four days ago.
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Magnitus: Yes, regular people often use Windows on desktops. I just think you're overinflating the importance of desktops compared to everything else.

Functional distributed computing systems need servers, networking equipment and other hardware devices, and occasionally they need a general purpose desktop (but not always, often, they'll want a specialised end-user interfaces that doesn't give the end-user too much room to stray from the intended purpose of the system which a generic Windows desktop definitely would).

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Johnathanamz: I passed by a Burger King when I was driving to the grocery store and the Burger King on the order menu I saw Windows 7 on the screen. The grocery store I was in used Windows 10.
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Magnitus: Grocery stores in my area most likely use some Unix variant. Their systems are very custom.

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Johnathanamz: MicroSoft's Asure is the biggest server thing MicroSoft has although I think MicroSoft's Asure uses Linux.
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Magnitus: I believe Azure runs on Windows, although Windows nowadays have a thick Linux compatibility layer. Linux is the dominant operating system for servers and they had to adapt to the times.

For sure, you can run Linux guest vms on Azure. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot royally if they didn't support that.

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Johnathanamz: Every corporation is preferring to use MicroSoft's Asure more than anything from Amazon.
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Magnitus: I can't say I'm happy about that either, but I need to fact-check you here. AWS is the giant in the room and everybody else is playing catchup.

Overall, last time I checked, Azure accounted for about 20% of the cloud space.
I will just say no.

Who cares people using Windows is still better than using Linux.

You live in Canada I guess.

I do not care about servers for the internet anyways.

Sure MicroSoft has 20% of the cloud space, but there is a reason MicroSoft is now worth $2.50 trillion dollars (USD) and Linux is worth nothing because it is free.
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Johnathanamz: You live in Canada I guess.
Yes, I live 80km North of the US border.

Clearly, things change drastically at the border and just North of it, people start living in igloos and hunt seal.

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Johnathanamz: I do not care about servers for the internet anyways.
Well, most people are the same until the servers stop working and then it gets pretty bad.

Its the same with electricity and a bunch of other things people take for granted.

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Johnathanamz: Sure MicroSoft has 20% of the cloud space, but there is a reason MicroSoft is now worth $2.50 trillion dollars (USD) and Linux is worth nothing because it is free.
Not quite right. Canonical, Red Hat, Suse (just to name a few players closest to the OS layer) and countless other companies are worth quite a bit more than Microsoft together based on commercial offerings running on top of Linux.

You remove Linux from the equation and believe me, all those guys will be scrambling, because without an OS to run on, what they're doing will be worthless.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus
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Johnathanamz: You live in Canada I guess.
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Magnitus: Yes, I live 80km North of the US border.

Clearly, things change drastically at the border and just North of it, people start living in igloos and hunt seal.

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Johnathanamz: I do not care about servers for the internet anyways.
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Magnitus: Well, most people are the same until the servers stop working and then it gets pretty bad.

Its the same with electricity and a bunch of other things people take for granted.

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Johnathanamz: Sure MicroSoft has 20% of the cloud space, but there is a reason MicroSoft is now worth $2.50 trillion dollars (USD) and Linux is worth nothing because it is free.
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Magnitus: Not quite right. Canonical, Red Hat, Suse (just to name a few players closest to the OS layer) and countless other companies are worth quite a bit more than Microsoft based on commercial offerings running on top of Linux.

You remove Linux from the equation and believe me, all those guys will be scrambling, because without an OS to run on, what they're doing will be worthless.
I did not say because you live in Canada you live in igloos and all that, each country has a different way that its government functions. I do not know how the Canadian government embraces Windows or not kind of like the Chinese government and the North Korean government does.

So that is why I said you live in Canada I guess.

You are acting like a smart ass.

Oh yeah Canonical is worth more than $2.50 trillion dollars (USD) get real.
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Johnathanamz: I did not say because you live in Canada you live in igloos and all that, each country has a different way that its government functions. I do not know how the Canadian government embraces Windows or not kind of like the Chinese government and the North Korean government does.

So that is why I said you live in Canada I guess.

You are acting like a smart ass.
Geography dictates that we're a lot more similar to you than China or North Korea. I'm pretty sure that if a country like North Korea was North of your border, your government would have an altogether different kind of relationship with its Northern neighbour.

Kind of interesting that you're choosing that country (of all the choices you have at your disposal) as a comparison btw, but let's stay on topic.

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Johnathanamz: Oh yeah Canonical is worth more than $2.50 trillion dollars (USD) get real.
I guarantee you that if you combine all the players relying on Linux for their commercial offering, they areworth a lot more than Microsoft. That's the crux of what I was saying.
Post edited November 01, 2021 by Magnitus