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General discussionWhy aren't the id Software games on GOG?(77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: ========
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StingingVelvet: I think a big problem is that people own a lot of these old but not too old games on Steam, and the market of people who would re-buy them at full price just to have them on GOG is pretty small. I was excited to see Bioshock Infinite come here for example, but am I paying $16 or whatever it was just to get a DRM free copy when I already have it? Nah. So that's probably stopping a lot of semi-modern releases from selling well.
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GameRager: To me and others 16 bucks for the full game is a steal compared to release day prices....just saying. :\

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Lord_Kane: The seperate "for-sale" versions of Doom and Doom II are the original dos releases with no censored content.
The versions of Doom and Doom II included with Doom 3 BFG Edition are the censored german releases.
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GameRager: What about the changes for the red cross? Are the red pluses still in the gog versions as well?

Also thanks for the information. :)
Yes, the separate GOG releases are their original releases with no changes other then those included with the various updates to original games (the only change Ultimate Doom ever had was Id changing the level geometry of E1M4 by removing a swastika present but that was in version 1.4 released in 1994)

but yes the red cross logo is present.
in short

https://www.gog.com/game/doom_ii_final_doom and https://www.gog.com/game/the_ultimate_doom = original releases with no censoring

and https://www.gog.com/game/doom_3_bfg_edition has the german censored wads with no red cross logo, no SS soliders, the levels are present but the SS troopers are gone.
Posted September 02, 2019
A long time ago, in a store without Bethesda games on its shelves...
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: Quake 1/2 are here but sadly the music is cut out and one has to get it elsewhere
No you don't.
Posted September 02, 2019
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tfishell: I think that's most big-name "AAA" publishers. I guess we did get an old Activision game a few weeks back though.
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StingingVelvet: I think a big problem is that people own a lot of these old but not too old games on Steam, and the market of people who would re-buy them at full price just to have them on GOG is pretty small. I was excited to see Bioshock Infinite come here for example, but am I paying $16 or whatever it was just to get a DRM free copy when I already have it? Nah. So that's probably stopping a lot of semi-modern releases from selling well.
Yeah maybe, though nowadays many do get deep release discounts (just not enough for most people to consider a re-buy maybe, like your Bioshock example.) I wonder if GOG's bringing in more money focusing on new full-priced indies; I have hard time believing that but maybe so. Or maybe GOG is happy with the "AAA" releases at deep discounts but they don't bring in enough revenue for their respective publishers to care.

Maybe.

In any case the "AAA" releases are more exciting to me because it shows GOG has still has some clout, but it comes down to what sells.
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: Quake 1/2 are here but sadly the music is cut out and one has to get it elsewhere
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Cadaver747: No you don't.
Not to sound rude but then why do several people say here you need to DL the music because it was cut out due to licensing issues?

Or did they put it back in(honestly asking here)?

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Lord_Kane: Yes, the separate GOG releases are their original releases with no changes other then those included with the various updates to original games (the only change Ultimate Doom ever had was Id changing the level geometry of E1M4 by removing a swastika present but that was in version 1.4 released in 1994)

but yes the red cross logo is present.
Not to rag on the germans but to me it is pants on head dumb to not allow a few symbols in GAMES(as if that's going to radicalize someone....1 swast*ka and a few troopers, etc).....so i'm glad to hear the GOG versions are intact.

Thanks again.
Post edited September 02, 2019 by GameRager
Posted September 02, 2019
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Cadaver747: No you don't.
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GameRager: Not to sound rude but then why do several people say here you need to DL the music because it was cut out due to licensing issues?

Or did they put it back in(honestly asking here)?

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Lord_Kane: Yes, the separate GOG releases are their original releases with no changes other then those included with the various updates to original games (the only change Ultimate Doom ever had was Id changing the level geometry of E1M4 by removing a swastika present but that was in version 1.4 released in 1994)

but yes the red cross logo is present.
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GameRager: Not to rag on the germans but to me it is pants on head dumb to not allow a few symbols in GAMES(as if that's going to radicalize someone....1 swast*ka and a few troopers, etc).....so i'm glad to hear the GOG versions are intact.

Thanks again.
Ummm thats not why they were removed it, Id original removed the swastika in 94 because Doom got index'd in germany for that, same with why the SS and the wolfenstien levels where removed in the orignal german releases, has nothing to do with the modern concerns of "radicalization"
Posted September 02, 2019
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Cadaver747: No you don't.
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GameRager: Not to sound rude but then why do several people say here you need to DL the music because it was cut out due to licensing issues?

Or did they put it back in(honestly asking here)?
I fully completed Quake and Quake 2 and their official expansions bought from GOG.

Quake 2 worked fine but I had to patch it with unofficial vanilla like patch/mod (knightmare's unofficial v3.24) for smoother framerate and just copy soundtrack folder to different place in game root. Can't say I have any issues with music.

Quake 1 is a different story, the music was there for glQuake but expansions were not properly edited for respective music, then soundtrack files were removed without clear statement as to why. DOS Quake still have the music playing from disk image (there are 3 in total). The problem is that you need to edit .cue file to fix the 2 seconds discrepancy in tracks. I had to fix the .cue file, burn CD to OGG files and use Mark V source port for Quake for closest to vanilla experience. If you need additional instructions on how to get the music you may chat me.
Posted September 02, 2019
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Lord_Kane: Ummm thats not why they were removed it, Id original removed the swastika in 94 because Doom got index'd in germany for that, same with why the SS and the wolfenstien levels where removed in the orignal german releases, has nothing to do with the modern concerns of "radicalization"
I was musing on why germany indexes such things to begin with, and that's one of the stated reasons iirc.

But this is verging on politics so i'll leave it there.
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Cadaver747: I fully completed Quake and Quake 2 and their official expansions bought from GOG.

Quake 2 worked fine but I had to patch it with unofficial vanilla like patch/mod (knightmare's unofficial v3.24) for smoother framerate and just copy soundtrack folder to different place in game root. Can't say I have any issues with music.

Quake 1 is a different story, the music was there for glQuake but expansions were not properly edited for respective music, then soundtrack files were removed without clear statement as to why. DOS Quake still have the music playing from disk image (there are 3 in total). The problem is that you need to edit .cue file to fix the 2 seconds discrepancy in tracks. I had to fix the .cue file, burn CD to OGG files and use Mark V source port for Quake for closest to vanilla experience. If you need additional instructions on how to get the music you may chat me.
Interesting....I seem to recall reading that the GOG versions had music licensing issues and they couldn't provide such with the games. Maybe I misread?
Post edited September 02, 2019 by GameRager
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: Interesting....I seem to recall reading that the GOG versions had music licensing issues and they couldn't provide such with the games. Maybe I misread?
Could be:
https://www.gog.com/forum/quake_series/quake_the_offering_music/post1/?staff=yes
Posted September 02, 2019
Let's discuss Commander Keen a bit. There are 2 games we might never get officially for unknown reasons:

Commander Keen in Keen Dreams, also unofficially known as Commander Keen Episode 3.5
This game was created by id Software for their ex-employer company SoftDisk Publising as part of a contract, a settlement for unauthorized usage of Softdisk computers for their games development. That game was published a few times in compilations and then lost forever from game shelves. In 2014 an IndieGoGo crowdfunding campaign was started to release a source code and a game in Steam by Hard Disk Publishing, after a while the game was removed only to be resurrected again by a well known publisher NightDive Studios. Many gamers who were too late to buy the game in the first place sighed with a relief only to find out later that the game completely gone from PC store. In 2019 the game reappeared in Nintendo eShop under a different publisher label. The PC fate of the game is unknown and shrouded in mystery.

Commander Keen in Aliens Ate My Babysitter, also unofficially known as Commander Keen Episode 6
This game is even more mystery to me. It was developed by id Software but they decided to cut ties with their publisher Apogee and hired new studio director Mark Rein who made a deal to publish a standalone boxed version of a game through FormGen publisher. After that Mark Rein went to work for Epic Games, the game was included in few more game compilations only to be lost forever for no good reason.
Post edited September 02, 2019 by Cadaver747
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: To me and others 16 bucks for the full game is a steal compared to release day prices....just saying. :\
I feel like you often make off-the-wall points on purpose. What does that have to do with re-buying something you already own?
Posted September 02, 2019
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GameRager: To me and others 16 bucks for the full game is a steal compared to release day prices....just saying. :\
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StingingVelvet: I feel like you often make off-the-wall points on purpose. What does that have to do with re-buying something you already own?
I was just talking about those buying for the first time.....I must have misread your post and replied without reading it carefully enough.

(As for my posts...I sometimes misread due to reading too many posts around the same time and not reading them carefully enough. Add that to the fact that I have semi poor short term memory retention and you can see where that all leads)
Post edited September 02, 2019 by GameRager
Posted September 02, 2019
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StingingVelvet: I was excited to see Bioshock Infinite come here for example, but am I paying $16 or whatever it was just to get a DRM free copy when I already have it? Nah. So that's probably stopping a lot of semi-modern releases from selling well.
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GameRager: To me and others 16 bucks for the full game is a steal compared to release day prices....just saying. :\
^ I think StingingVelvet's point was (using the Bioshock example), B1 + B2 + BI games at their deepest discount are around £18 on GOG but the same games on Steam sold as a trilogy (Bioshock Collection) are only £9.99 (and include the Linux version of BI that GOG lacks). Whether a few people are willing to pay a whopping +80% premium just for DRM-Free or not, A. It gets harder and harder to encourage newcomers to GOG when the first observation is "Whoa, I don't mind paying a small premium for DRM-Free but +80% more is way too much for old games", and B. It's not a good thing to habitualize people into accepting the "need" to pay almost double just to remove DRM when for +10 year old games, DRM-Free re-releases should really be the default without any special premium. I'm pretty sure this is half the reason why we keep stagnating with not seeing more mid 2000's to early 2010's era AAA's that are now as old today as Deus Ex, RTCW, System Shock 2, etc, were when GOG launched.

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GameRager: Not to sound rude but then why do several people say here you need to DL the music because it was cut out due to licensing issues? Or did they put it back in(honestly asking here)?
The last time I looked, I'm sure the GOG version of Quake 1 does include the soundtrack in the form of 3x large files in the game folder that appear to be renamed ripped .ISO's (or BIN//CUE) of audio CD's. That's most of what makes up the "1.1GB" install size of the game on the game page. The game itself (inc expansions) fed into Quakespasm source port minus the soundtrack is only around 126MB, so most of what makes up the install size is the CD-Audio soundtrack ripped to uncompressed WAV format and stored in virtual optical disc container files.
Post edited September 02, 2019 by AB2012
Posted September 02, 2019
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AB2012: ^ I think StingingVelvet's point was (using the Bioshock example), B1 + B2 + BI games at their deepest discount are around £18 on GOG but the same games on Steam sold as a trilogy (Bioshock Collection) are only £9.99 (and include the Linux version of BI that GOG lacks). Whether a few people are willing to pay a whopping +80% premium just for DRM-Free or not, A. It gets harder and harder to encourage newcomers to GOG when the first observation is "Whoa, I don't mind paying a small premium for DRM-Free but +80% more is way too much for old games", and B. It's not a good thing to habitualize people into accepting the "need" to pay almost double just to remove DRM when for +10 year old games, DRM-Free re-releases should really be the default without any special premium. I'm pretty sure this is half the reason why we keep stagnating with not seeing more mid 2000's to early 2010's era AAA's that are now as old today as Deus Ex, RTCW, System Shock 2, etc, were when GOG launched.

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The last time I looked, I'm sure the GOG version of Quake 1 does include the soundtrack in the form of 3x large files in the game folder that appear to be renamed ripped .ISO's (or BIN//CUE) of audio CD's. That's most of what makes up the "1.1GB" install size of the game on the game page. The game itself (inc expansions) fed into Quakespasm source port minus the soundtrack is only around 126MB, so most of what makes up the install size is the CD-Audio soundtrack ripped to uncompressed WAV format and stored in virtual optical disc container files.
1st bit: To me I still see the price as reasonable to OWN the games(and not have to rent them or crack them on steam/etc), and i'm guessing those who come here and stay feel the same or else they'd buy more on other stores like steam.

Add to that that games here go on sale often(some more than others) and the fact that the prices are much better than when they first launched and one can see that many into actually owning would find such a good deal when buying for the first time.

2nd bit: Ok then.....I must've misread....I seem to recall some here saying gog has to unofficially suggest how to get the music(for in-game) because the music wasn't allowed to be officially coupled with the games, but maybe that was sorta right and sorta wrong(i.e. the music is there you just have to fiddle with stuff to get it to play in-game).

Thanks for the info.
Posted September 02, 2019
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AB2012: ^ I think StingingVelvet's point was (using the Bioshock example), B1 + B2 + BI games at their deepest discount are around £18 on GOG but the same games on Steam sold as a trilogy (Bioshock Collection) are only £9.99 (and include the Linux version of BI that GOG lacks). Whether a few people are willing to pay a whopping +80% premium just for DRM-Free or not, A. It gets harder and harder to encourage newcomers to GOG when the first observation is "Whoa, I don't mind paying a small premium for DRM-Free but +80% more is way too much for old games", and B. It's not a good thing to habitualize people into accepting the "need" to pay almost double just to remove DRM when for +10 year old games, DRM-Free re-releases should really be the default without any special premium. I'm pretty sure this is half the reason why we keep stagnating with not seeing more mid 2000's to early 2010's era AAA's that are now as old today as Deus Ex, RTCW, System Shock 2, etc, were when GOG launched.
I mean this is part of it, but I was more saying most people bought games like Bioshock a long time ago. I know there are a group of hardcore DRM free people who maybe never bought it until it came out here, but that is surely a small number of folks. Some might rebuy them for DRM free, but again I bet it's a small number. So I'm guessing releases like that don't sell super well, which means GOG focuses on new releases or older classics without a good release elsewhere.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhy aren't the id Software games on GOG?(77 posts)(77 posts)
(77 posts)