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General discussionWhen will AAA publishers put new releases on GOG?(181 posts)(181 posts)
(181 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 13, 2015
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shmerl: Fixed later, but horribly broken at release time. So surely it didn't have any acceptable quality then. It was simply garbage. Most games are fixed if developers continue working on them. And it's not uncommon that independent studios do it longer than publisher funded ones, who push for dropping older titles even if they are half baked in order to push some new "hot" mass market thing.

My point is, that today publisher funded development nowhere guarantees quality, and even big budget doesn't. And I don't only mean technical quality, but even more so artistic. Mass market approach of publishes dilutes games, restricts authors vision in order to get more profits and so on. So going back to the point I brought above, what should be called "AAA"? And how useful is that term? I find it useless. When I evaluate the game I look at its qualities.
You're pointing at Batman, then you should point finger at Indies as well. I could name one hundred broken indies from the get go.

And yes. stop speaking nonsense about AAA term, it shows your ignorance. Nobody's gonna call Dust an Elysian Tail an AAA, despite it's handled by Microsoft Studios.

And nobody will ever call Batman indie.

Just stop complaining about that.

Oh, reports my ass. First hand experience or GTFO. I have a solid 50 hours playing Batman, my opinion regarding its performance is more valuable than yours with zero hour.
Post edited October 13, 2015 by zeroxxx
Posted October 13, 2015
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zeroxxx: And yes. stop speaking nonsense about AAA term, it shows your ignorance.
It shows that you didn't even read what I said. Continue using this dumb ambiguous term which means nothing today, but don't get surprised if people won't understand what you mean, or will simply disagree because they won't have time to understand you. On the other hand if you care about meaningful discussions instead of flaming forum topics - avoid the term AAA and explain what you mean in that context.
Post edited October 13, 2015 by shmerl
Posted October 13, 2015
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amok: Just to make one thing clear:

The bolded and underlined part is exactly what I do with the DRM free Steam games :)

edit - and I am just going to add (because it irks me...) - if Steam was DRM, then you could not run Steam games without it. You can run some games without Steam, ergo Steam is not DRM in itself.
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Trilarion: I think this distinction is confusing and misleading. Yes, some games on Steam are kind of DRM free, although I would actually want more checks that they all really only need to be zipped and run out of the box on any other system and do not need any installation.

But of course nearly most or all of the AAA games, which certainly make the biggest part of the profit, are not DRM free on Steam. You cannot just zip them.

Calling that not DRM is misleading. Calling Steam DRM is for all practical purposes quite a good approximation.

But if we want to be more accurate why not saying: Steam is DRM but it is turned off for a few rather less popular games. I'd be totally fine with that.
What is wrong in saying "Steam in itself isn't DRM, the CEG component is" ... apart from being more correct...
Posted October 13, 2015
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Wolfehunter: No Indies games I don't expect them to have flawless games.. I expect them to have a few bumps. However AAA brands is different. They have the resources to make games properly and choose to cut corners and speed production in the interest of $$$.. So its quantity over quality. Indie is a different mechanism. I don't compare apples and oranges. :)

And for the last 10 years many of the games released by AAA are shit. Only thing favoring them is there sound and graphics over indie. I prefer an indie game because I know what I'm getting. Where as AAA are a cheating lie.

Never the less Gog will dominate all games sale here sooner or laterz muhahhaaa... ;)
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zeroxxx: Disagree completely with your argument.

While it's true AAAs have resources, but they have more complex mechanics and coding into them. It's bound to be problematic. Diablo 3 had horrible launch, but now it's smooth as butter. How many disastrous Indies can do that? Many AAAs, just as many indies.

And I enjoy AAAs more than Indies. It's a matter of preferences between you and me.
If that is true, how come hundreds of people working on Sims City flop badly while City Skyline 13 strong team makes it a raging success?
Posted October 13, 2015
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amok: What is wrong in saying "Steam in itself isn't DRM, the CEG component is" ... apart from being more correct...
It's makes things much too complicated, I would say."Steam in itself" sounds a bit strange and is difficult to understand. Knowledge about CEG is rather detailed or expert knowledge and including another acronym is probably not helping things especially since most of the time CEG and Steam come together and CEG never comes without Steam, or does it? Anyway from a bit farther away, and I guess most people are looking from far away, Steam is just one thing, not a sum of Steam and CEG and potentially even more components.

What you say is not more correct - it's just semantics or definitions. I could as well include CEG into Steam and come to the conclusion that Steam is always DRM. What does it bring in the end? Making artificial distinctions can easily be misleading.

In the end, it doesn't really matter how you define it: Make it simple or at least not overly complicated and convey the correct message which would be that AAA games on Steam have DRM and some non AAA games have most probably not. No need to introduce CEG.

But of couse if you like it you can. But I prefer to include one in the other and just call it all Steam which is a plattform that of course has DRM but maybe not always.
Post edited October 13, 2015 by Trilarion
Posted October 13, 2015
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amok: What is wrong in saying "Steam in itself isn't DRM, the CEG component is" ... apart from being more correct...
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Trilarion: It's makes things much too complicated, I would say."Steam in itself" sounds a bit strange and is difficult to understand. Knowledge about CEG is rather detailed or expert knowledge and including another acronym is probably not helping things especially since most of the time CEG and Steam come together and CEG never comes without Steam, or does it? Anyway from a bit farther away, and I guess most people are looking from far away, Steam is just one thing, not a sum of Steam and CEG and potentially even more components.

What you say is not more correct - it's just semantics or definitions. I could as well include CEG into Steam and come to the conclusion that Steam is always DRM. What does it bring in the end? Making artificial distinctions can easily be misleading.

In the end, it doesn't really matter how you define it: Make it simple or at least not overly complicated and convey the correct message which would be that AAA games on Steam have DRM and some non AAA games have most probably not. No need to introduce CEG.

But of couse if you like it you can. But I prefer to include one in the other and just call it all Steam which is a plattform that of course has DRM but maybe not always.
No more complicated than saying all disk are drm because some use starforce
Posted October 13, 2015
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amok: What is wrong in saying "Steam in itself isn't DRM, the CEG component is" ... apart from being more correct...
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Trilarion: <snip>
At the end of the day, whether some games are technically DRM-free or not on Steam is a moot point, given that (a) it is a minority of around 10% of games on the service and (b) of those games, around 95-96% are available DRM-free elsewhere anyway.

I do check my bundle Steam games that I get from Bundle Stars and Indie Gala to see if they're DRM-free (and store them as a ZIP archive), and 9 times out of 10 the only ones that are DRM-free are ones that I could have picked up from itch.io, GOG or Humble Store DRM-free.
Posted October 13, 2015
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Trilarion: <snip>
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jamyskis: At the end of the day, whether some games are technically DRM-free or not on Steam is a moot point, given that (a) it is a minority of around 10% of games on the service and (b) of those games, around 95-96% are available DRM-free elsewhere anyway.

I do check my bundle Steam games that I get from Bundle Stars and Indie Gala to see if they're DRM-free (and store them as a ZIP archive), and 9 times out of 10 the only ones that are DRM-free are ones that I could have picked up from itch.io, GOG or Humble Store DRM-free.
It is only a moot point if you rephrase the question....
Posted October 13, 2015
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achaye: If Origin or uPlay had DRM-free games, I would actually purchase from them too. I guess the question should have been rephrased to "when will AAA publishers finally be able to convince brain-dead investors that DRM doesn't work, and start releasing games DRM-free, whether on their own platform or on GOG?"

I am really, really waiting for that day. As of now, I have quite literally hundreds of dollars that COULD have been theirs because there are a whole bunch of AAA titles I want to purchase, but refuse to due to DRM.
quotre
Posted October 13, 2015
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Wolfehunter: No Indies games I don't expect them to have flawless games.. I expect them to have a few bumps. However AAA brands is different. They have the resources to make games properly and choose to cut corners and speed production in the interest of $$$.. So its quantity over quality. Indie is a different mechanism. I don't compare apples and oranges. :)

And for the last 10 years many of the games released by AAA are shit. Only thing favoring them is there sound and graphics over indie. I prefer an indie game because I know what I'm getting. Where as AAA are a cheating lie.

Never the less Gog will dominate all games sale here sooner or laterz muhahhaaa... ;)
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zeroxxx: Disagree completely with your argument.

While it's true AAAs have resources, but they have more complex mechanics and coding into them. It's bound to be problematic. Diablo 3 had horrible launch, but now it's smooth as butter. How many disastrous Indies can do that? Many AAAs, just as many indies.

And I enjoy AAAs more than Indies. It's a matter of preferences between you and me.
How is there work more complex than the next Programmer, Artist? That is a load of bullshit. Each programer texture artist 3D modeler each have there challenges and are no different than the rest. Its a question of priorities in what they're developing. AAA companies focus on fast and easy way to profit on the expense of overworking there Dev team and forcing insane requirements for the finish product in a short time. Indy its different. But not all indies are the same. They're are many many different groups with different ideals.. Which is why you can't compare apples and oranges..

I remember AAA brands that were indie themselves 25 years ago.. Most are dead because they where bought off by EA or other interest groups. Which those new owners shut them down when they couldn't do what they needed or simply wasn't profitable.

I prefer indie because its new fresh creative. Interest groups like EA destroy pillage rape the new fresh and creative!
Posted October 15, 2015
Kotaku has another article, interviewing CDProjekt's co-founder, on how major game studio executives know DRM doesn't work, but uses it anyway as a scapegoat. His words are actually quite a bit stronger than my own:

“It seems to me that the industry as a whole knows DRM doesn’t work,” he said, “but corporations still use it as a smokescreen, effectively covering their asses, pretending to protect their intellectual property in front of bosses, investors, and shareholders. I’ve actually had quite a few discussions with high level executives who admit they know DRM doesn’t work, but if they don’t use it somebody might accuse them of not protecting their property. Whenever policy trumps common sense, the best interest of gamers is lost in the process.”

http://kotaku.com/the-past-present-and-future-of-the-witcher-3-1736499084
Posted October 15, 2015
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Trilarion: In the end, it doesn't really matter how you define it: Make it simple or at least not overly complicated and convey the correct message which would be that AAA games on Steam have DRM and some non AAA games have most probably not. No need to introduce CEG.

But of couse if you like it you can. But I prefer to include one in the other and just call it all Steam which is a plattform that of course has DRM but maybe not always.
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amok: No more complicated than saying all disk are drm because some use starforce
Nope. Steam is DRM. From Wiki:

"DRM includes technologies that control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works"

Emphasis mine. Steam is definitely a technology that, even for the "DRM-free" games, restricts the DISTRIBUTION of said games, because you can only get it via installation of their own client. If you don't have that Steam client installed in the first place, or it doesn't work on your OS for whatever reason, you won't be able to get those files.

For GOG, I can be on a Windows 3.1 system with an internet connection and STILL be able to download the file through whatever Netscape browser I have installed.
Posted October 15, 2015
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amok: No more complicated than saying all disk are drm because some use starforce
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achaye: Nope. Steam is DRM. From Wiki:

"DRM includes technologies that control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works"

Emphasis mine. Steam is definitely a technology that, even for the "DRM-free" games, restricts the DISTRIBUTION of said games, because you can only get it via installation of their own client. If you don't have that Steam client installed in the first place, or it doesn't work on your OS for whatever reason, you won't be able to get those files.

For GOG, I can be on a Windows 3.1 system with an internet connection and STILL be able to download the file through whatever Netscape browser I have installed.
Heh. You hit the nail on the head. I assume Steam requires a minimum of Windows XP as the currently active operating system to allow you to download and install anything. Sure, there might be a minority of DRM-free games on Steam, but can I get them without downloading and installing Steam? Oops, no. GOG allows you to download games from wherever you want as long as you remember your account and have an internet connection. That and if I wanted to, I could download Linux versions of games on a Windows with no issues. Come and show me how you do that on Steam on Windows. So downloading these DRM-free games still feels limited.
Posted October 15, 2015
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achaye: Kotaku has another article, interviewing CDProjekt's co-founder, on how major game studio executives know DRM doesn't work, but uses it anyway as a scapegoat. His words are actually quite a bit stronger than my own:

“It seems to me that the industry as a whole knows DRM doesn’t work,” he said, “but corporations still use it as a smokescreen, effectively covering their asses, pretending to protect their intellectual property in front of bosses, investors, and shareholders. I’ve actually had quite a few discussions with high level executives who admit they know DRM doesn’t work, but if they don’t use it somebody might accuse them of not protecting their property. Whenever policy trumps common sense, the best interest of gamers is lost in the process.”

http://kotaku.com/the-past-present-and-future-of-the-witcher-3-1736499084
My response to things like this is always the same. Say it's a smokescreen/excuse/whatever. I can tell you what DRM is not to most developers or publishers and that is a deterrent. Not when they continue to make money by selling thousands upon thousands of copies on Steam (and other outlets). Corporations will start to take notice of DRM-Free when DRM itself starts to impact their bottom line enough where they need to look for another way. Last I checked this isn't even close to becoming a reality because most gamers don't know/don't care enough about DRM (read: steam) to stop using it.

Moral of the story - Most gamers just want to play Skyrim.
Post edited October 15, 2015 by synfresh
Posted October 15, 2015
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synfresh: My response to things like this is always the same. Say it's a smokescreen/excuse/whatever. I can tell you what DRM is not to most developers or publishers and that is a deterrent.
It is a deterrent if they care about more sales - DRM reduces them. But as was said multiple times, they don't use DRM to increase sales, they use it for covering incompetence and other sinister reasons.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhen will AAA publishers put new releases on GOG?(181 posts)(181 posts)
(181 posts)