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Ancient-Red-Dragon: No they aren't. On the contrary: regional prices are the exact opposite of that.

The only true fair price for a game would be one single price that is universally charged in the same amount everywhere, regardless of where it is sold.

Regional prices are inherently unfair because they discriminate based on country in order to make some people overpay for games and other people underpay for the same identical games.

And as others have pointed out, there is no way to accurately determine how much money a customer has based upon a gigantic sweeping generalization such as what country they live in.

To try and assume how much money one has based solely on what country they live in is extremely discriminatory & prejudicial, and it's mind-boggling that such discrimination is allowed, whereas discrimination on other similar grounds is not.
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Orkhepaj: That's why they are good
why should everybody pay the same when incomes differ region to region?
Non-regional pricing is an elitist view

how greedy you have to be to get angry if others can buy the same game for cheaper ?:O
Care to tackle my arguments above? The truth is, regional pricing is more or less per country, not region. And, this goes back to, if someone else can buy it cheaper, why can't i? Either i'm paying more than i need to to begin with (which is bad enough) or i'm paying more than i should so that i help offset someone else getting cheaper (in other words, it's more expensive for me because it's cheaper for someone else).

It should be obvious that NISA's just being greedy, but that doesn't change my arguments on the topic as a whole.
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Orkhepaj: That's why they are good
why should everybody pay the same when incomes differ region to region?
Non-regional pricing is an elitist view

how greedy you have to be to get angry if others can buy the same game for cheaper ?:O
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kohlrak: Care to tackle my arguments above? The truth is, regional pricing is more or less per country, not region. And, this goes back to, if someone else can buy it cheaper, why can't i? Either i'm paying more than i need to to begin with (which is bad enough) or i'm paying more than i should so that i help offset someone else getting cheaper (in other words, it's more expensive for me because it's cheaper for someone else).

It should be obvious that NISA's just being greedy, but that doesn't change my arguments on the topic as a whole.
well i havent read your comment yet , just topic name and last comment :)

wish it was per country , germany has way better wages then the eastern eu countries
publishers want profit max probably, if they could, they would set prices personally to what you would pay maximum, and with regional pricing they can get better income than with one global price

yeah, this seems unfair for you if you live in a rich country, but you still pay way less in % income than the poor country guy in average

they not only get it cheaper, they live in a poorer country, it is not just a price difference, oh and probably they don't get the product on their mother language

nah, you are not paying more if someone pays less, think about them as extra customers or on sale, I maybe wrong, but proving this would require plenty of comparison on similar product sold with regional pricing and one global price, that will be hard to make if possible for games

I think they first set a global price to, then they set a lower regional price if they think the more sales will outweigh the less profit/item
and they have to take into account for local laws and tax differences ,fe here VAT is 27% yep insane , what is it in the usa 10%?:O looks like you even pay less than us poorer countries that's unfair :)

oh and price of a product hardly resembles its production cost, except in very competitive market with similar product ,price is what people willing to pay for them
Post edited July 16, 2021 by Orkhepaj
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kohlrak: Care to tackle my arguments above? The truth is, regional pricing is more or less per country, not region. And, this goes back to, if someone else can buy it cheaper, why can't i? Either i'm paying more than i need to to begin with (which is bad enough) or i'm paying more than i should so that i help offset someone else getting cheaper (in other words, it's more expensive for me because it's cheaper for someone else).

It should be obvious that NISA's just being greedy, but that doesn't change my arguments on the topic as a whole.
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Orkhepaj: well i havent read your comment yet , just topic name and last comment :)

wish it was per country , germany has way better wages then the eastern eu countries
publishers want profit max probably, if they could, they would set prices personally to what you would pay maximum, and with regional pricing they can get better income than with one global price

yeah, this seems unfair for you if you live in a rich country, but you still pay way less in % income than the poor country guy in average
What if you live in a poor part of a rich country that's poorer than the average of a poor country? What about the rich in a poor country? What if you're in a rich part of a rich country, but you have a terribly poor job with no hope for vertical movement? We can take this even longer if you'd like. This isn't about fairness at all, as we all know those corporations don't give a damn about what's fair.
they not only get it cheaper, they live in a poorer country, it is not just a price difference, oh and probably they don't get the product on their mother language
So we now give discounts if we can't translate? Does that mean that I should bug over half the devs on dlsite for a discount 'cause Japanese is not my mother tongue? What about a discount, instead of a price hike, for the shoddy english translations we get from NISA in the first place?
nah, you are not paying more if someone pays less, think about them as extra customers or on sale, I maybe wrong, but proving this would require plenty of comparison on similar product sold with regional pricing and one global price, that will be hard to make if possible for games
That's the thing, we don't know what it really is. It's plain and simple, if someone is paying 7 euros, and anothe person is paying 50 euros, and this is a "permanent sale" based on "region," then clearly the person paying 50 is paying more than they should have ot. Either the company can afford to sell it to everyone at 7 euros, or it's valued somewhere between the two numbers and the person paying 50 is making up for the people paying 7 so that the average price comes out to what it's really worth. Now, of course, this is far more complicated, but that's what it is at the fundamental level, it's either situation A or B, and neither of them is fair either.
I think they first set a global price to, then they set a lower regional price if they think the more sales will outweigh the less profit/item
Bingo: they sell things based on what they think you'll be dumb enough to pay, as demonstrated by the fact it's digital goods, not physical goods, so aside from certain costs per sale (which do exist for things like unity), once the production threshhold has been passed, they're just making sales on no work, because it costs nothing to produce another copy of the game for the publisher (the platform has some minor energy and bandwidth costs that amount to less than a single amount of the smallest unit of whatever the least valuable currency is).
and they have to take into account for local laws and tax differences ,fe here VAT is 27% yep insane , what is it in the usa 10%?:O looks like you even pay less than us poorer countries that's unfair :)
Yes, because an extra 45% of 10 whatevers resulting in 15 (round to your benefit) is still larger than the 50 with no tax (to round down to your benefit again). Don't get me wrong, the VAT is horrible, but it's not only not the company's fault/responsibility, but it's also insignificant compared to the regional price differences that we usually see.
oh and price of a product hardly resembles its production cost, except in very competitive market with similar product ,price is what people willing to pay for them
Exactly, which is what makes the people crying about the unfairness of universal pricing even worse: it's not a product that they need and it's up to them what they're willing to pay for it. There's lots of games i won't even add to a wishlist because they'd need a 90% off level sale before i'd consider their prices reasonable for what they're offering. This doesn't entitle you to piracy, because you don't agree to the price. Even making such a claim is a crime known as "extortion."

Personally, i'd rather things be cheaper for everyone, but this whole pseudo-communist argument for regional pricing due to presumed economic opportunity (wealth ridistribution by another name) is just as flawed as real communism.
Some points to clarify what has been said here:

1- In Brazil, regional prices are rarely linked to physical media! In fact, Nintendo Switch, Playstation and XBOX online stores do not have regional prices as standard;

2- Regional prices are applied forcefully and massively ONLY in digital PC distribution, ie: Steam, Epic and GOG;

3- It has already been mentioned here and I thought it was excellent to have said it. In addition to us (Brazilians) paying an absurd amount for a release, the translation into our language is something very recent, and the dubbing even more so. We grew up in the 1990s and throughout the 2000s playing foreign language content without local support and warranty, so when someone says "it's unfair to pay less than I pay" I ask if you think it's fair for me to pay for your dubbing, your subtitles , your support and your warranty;

4- The value of the minimum wage in Brazil is R$1,045.00. A Nintendo digital media release costs R$300.00. Do you know what that means? That a launch in Brazil costs almost 1/3 of the minimum wage. This is completely insane! I really can't understand how someone can find this "okay" and complain about regional prices when their reality, even with several problems, is not even close to that;

5- The logic of regional prices, in my opinion, is not linked to "one pays more and the other pays less", at all. They are made precisely to prevent piracy in vulnerable locations, but more than that, it has to do with the BUYING POWER of each location. You're not paying more for me to pay less, because the practice of regional prices is a new reality, don't think that this has been happening for years, and as I said, it's a reality practically only experienced by PC gamers.

I hope you could have contributed a little to this debate.
ITT: People from affluent countries repeatedly misunderstand the point of regional pricing.
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KetobaK: the regional prices are there to set a competitive and fair price for every game depending on the region they are selling it
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: No they aren't. On the contrary: regional prices are the exact opposite of that.

The only true fair price for a game would be one single price that is universally charged in the same amount everywhere, regardless of where it is sold.

Regional prices are inherently unfair because they discriminate based on country in order to make some people overpay for games and other people underpay for the same identical games.

And as others have pointed out, there is no way to accurately determine how much money a customer has based upon a gigantic sweeping generalization such as what country they live in.

To try and assume how much money one has based solely on what country they live in is extremely discriminatory & prejudicial, and it's mind-boggling that such discrimination is allowed, whereas discrimination on other similar grounds is not.
It's easy to speak when you are on the top, with salaries that are way better than a third world country and you don't pay incredible high taxes (cause 65% is a lot, in my country and in anyone), so if you want an universal price, why don't take our prices, tomorrow a game will cost 1/4 of an average salary lets say $300 per game, or 1/2 of a minimum salary, let's say $250, that is fair to you? Imagine how many games they will sale at that pricing. You are not the center of the world, you have to understand that.
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Patias: 4- The value of the minimum wage in Brazil is R$1,045.00. A Nintendo digital media release costs R$300.00.
R$1,045 an hour?
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Patias: 4- The value of the minimum wage in Brazil is R$1,045.00. A Nintendo digital media release costs R$300.00.
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DoomSooth: R$1,045 an hour?
Per month.
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KetobaK: It's quite complicate kohIrak, the regional prices are there to set a competitive and fair price for every game depending on the region they are selling it, they take in count, life expenses, average salary and other taxes,
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kohlrak: Which makes no sense, 'cause it's not fair. Within a country like the US you can get areas that are way, way more affluent than other areas. Some people i've spoken to before in Brazil have found amusement that my area in particuar is comparable to some parts of Brazil, and they seemed to have the most amusement for things like the road conditions in particular. The whole notion is insane.

this help a lot to avoid piracy because we can contribute with a fair price accordingly to our life style. For example, here in Argentina, we paid 65% on top of the price, that means that a us$60 games cost us us$100... Now, our average salary is us$400 (and droping), now I ask you if it will be fair to ask you for 1/4 of your entire salary to purchase a game, will you pay it? That would be a fair price for you?
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kohlrak: And that's why I kept a netbook running for 10 years, when it was already considered low tier the moment it was released (and intentionally so to keep it cheap). Now i'm using something that cost me 400USD. I plan on using this until at least 2030. As for the additonal price in particular, that should not be the game dev's fault, but something those of you in argentina do something about. I'm sure it's not simple, but this is not my responsibility. Either i'm paying more to make up for you, or i'm paying more when the product isn't really worth said price. To pay significantly higher than it's worth is unfair, regardless of how much you make. When i buy games on GOG or elsewhere, i have to see them as long term investments, because the average weekly pay for my area is probably round 200USD (i'm not sure if you are talking about what timeframe your choice of word "salary" is based on, 'cause normally we mean yearly, but if these numbers are to be believed it's certainly worse on average than the US, but not what people in our respective countries think it is). Based on working 40 hours a week (which is the average, and it's hard to get more or less), the average hourly wage in my area is supposedly 20USD an hour (honestly, all the open jobs are offering half that, but i'm thinking they're averaging types of positions rather than basing it on individual positions [for example, if you weight store clerk with CEO, it'll go between, because you're adding average then dividing by 2, where as if you go by number of positions you know there's easily 20-40 store clerks for every ceo of a small corporation]). And that's just my area: Pennsylvania on the whole is one of the poorer states in the US, but there are still even worse parts of this country like Detroit.

Don't get me wrong, i'm sympathetic to the fact argentina is worse off, but i noticed those south of the US border have a very, very inflated view of what goes on in the US. Hondurans tend to be particularly interesting cases. I hear that they tend to lie to their family back in Honduras, 'cause no one believes them when they tell them the truth. And no one wants to talk about the trail of tears that Hondurans go through to get to the US when they're told they're going through official channels (hint: they're not). The US is the modern day El Dorado, and just like El Dorado, you don't see any streets lined with gold. Then you got some parts of the US where they have money to do some of the craziest things, or at least they think they have the money, then they have trouble keeping the people living in tents and cardboard boxes from crowding those expensive projects and "making them look ugly with their presence."

That actually help us a lot to support developers, maybe not much, but is better than nothing and despite the help that represent regional pricing we more than often paid more than the real price, GOG didn't add regional pricing on Argentina yet.
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kohlrak: I'm skeptical on how much it supports devs. Usually, they're salary or hourly, not commission. It's just some corporate kitty.

EDIT: At my last job, I had this crazy fool who was working over 8 hour shifts with maybe 1 day off per week for about a month or two just so he could buy Fallout 4.
You say it, for you a game, a full price game represents 6 hours of work at the minimum pay (just 3 hours with an average pay), here is one week of work if you have an average salary, and more than two weeks if you earn the minimum (us$180).
Now imagine live and the poor part of a poor country that in Argentina is almost half of the country or maybe half already.
You know how much cost a PS5 on Argentina? us$1500, a D&D manual? us$120, a AAA game? us$100, those are things that only rich people could afford from our perspective and in your country are way cheaper, here is a luxury, if I earn here what you earn in a month I would be live like a king and $100 for a game wouldn't be much. But I'm not and with an average salary I bearly have enough money to live and just get like $20 to expend in something that I like that is gaming, and my 20 worth less that your 20 due to taxes. So if you say regional pricing is unfair because companies drop the price a little to allow us to pay $60 for a game instead of $100, it's a good kind of unfairness.
Our federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr. It's higher in some states. R$300 is about $60US and that's what we pay for a AAA game. That's without adding sales tax. Sales tax also varies from state to state. It's usually 5%.
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DoomSooth: R$1,045 an hour?
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triock: Per month.
Correct.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: No they aren't. On the contrary: regional prices are the exact opposite of that.

The only true fair price for a game would be one single price that is universally charged in the same amount everywhere, regardless of where it is sold.

Regional prices are inherently unfair because they discriminate based on country in order to make some people overpay for games and other people underpay for the same identical games.

And as others have pointed out, there is no way to accurately determine how much money a customer has based upon a gigantic sweeping generalization such as what country they live in.

To try and assume how much money one has based solely on what country they live in is extremely discriminatory & prejudicial, and it's mind-boggling that such discrimination is allowed, whereas discrimination on other similar grounds is not.
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KetobaK: It's easy to speak when you are on the top, with salaries that are way better than a third world country and you don't pay incredible high taxes (cause 65% is a lot, in my country and in anyone), so if you want an universal price, why don't take our prices, tomorrow a game will cost 1/4 of an average salary lets say $300 per game, or 1/2 of a minimum salary, let's say $250, that is fair to you? Imagine how many games they will sale at that pricing. You are not the center of the world, you have to understand that.
Perfect, Ketobak. Absolutely perfect.
Post edited July 16, 2021 by Patias
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kohlrak: Which makes no sense, 'cause it's not fair. Within a country like the US you can get areas that are way, way more affluent than other areas. Some people i've spoken to before in Brazil have found amusement that my area in particuar is comparable to some parts of Brazil, and they seemed to have the most amusement for things like the road conditions in particular. The whole notion is insane.

And that's why I kept a netbook running for 10 years, when it was already considered low tier the moment it was released (and intentionally so to keep it cheap). Now i'm using something that cost me 400USD. I plan on using this until at least 2030. As for the additonal price in particular, that should not be the game dev's fault, but something those of you in argentina do something about. I'm sure it's not simple, but this is not my responsibility. Either i'm paying more to make up for you, or i'm paying more when the product isn't really worth said price. To pay significantly higher than it's worth is unfair, regardless of how much you make. When i buy games on GOG or elsewhere, i have to see them as long term investments, because the average weekly pay for my area is probably round 200USD (i'm not sure if you are talking about what timeframe your choice of word "salary" is based on, 'cause normally we mean yearly, but if these numbers are to be believed it's certainly worse on average than the US, but not what people in our respective countries think it is). Based on working 40 hours a week (which is the average, and it's hard to get more or less), the average hourly wage in my area is supposedly 20USD an hour (honestly, all the open jobs are offering half that, but i'm thinking they're averaging types of positions rather than basing it on individual positions [for example, if you weight store clerk with CEO, it'll go between, because you're adding average then dividing by 2, where as if you go by number of positions you know there's easily 20-40 store clerks for every ceo of a small corporation]). And that's just my area: Pennsylvania on the whole is one of the poorer states in the US, but there are still even worse parts of this country like Detroit.

Don't get me wrong, i'm sympathetic to the fact argentina is worse off, but i noticed those south of the US border have a very, very inflated view of what goes on in the US. Hondurans tend to be particularly interesting cases. I hear that they tend to lie to their family back in Honduras, 'cause no one believes them when they tell them the truth. And no one wants to talk about the trail of tears that Hondurans go through to get to the US when they're told they're going through official channels (hint: they're not). The US is the modern day El Dorado, and just like El Dorado, you don't see any streets lined with gold. Then you got some parts of the US where they have money to do some of the craziest things, or at least they think they have the money, then they have trouble keeping the people living in tents and cardboard boxes from crowding those expensive projects and "making them look ugly with their presence."

I'm skeptical on how much it supports devs. Usually, they're salary or hourly, not commission. It's just some corporate kitty.

EDIT: At my last job, I had this crazy fool who was working over 8 hour shifts with maybe 1 day off per week for about a month or two just so he could buy Fallout 4.
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KetobaK: You say it, for you a game, a full price game represents 6 hours of work at the minimum pay (just 3 hours with an average pay), here is one week of work if you have an average salary, and more than two weeks if you earn the minimum (us$180).
Now imagine live and the poor part of a poor country that in Argentina is almost half of the country or maybe half already.
You know how much cost a PS5 on Argentina? us$1500, a D&D manual? us$120, a AAA game? us$100, those are things that only rich people could afford from our perspective and in your country are way cheaper, here is a luxury, if I earn here what you earn in a month I would be live like a king and $100 for a game wouldn't be much. But I'm not and with an average salary I bearly have enough money to live and just get like $20 to expend in something that I like that is gaming, and my 20 worth less that your 20 due to taxes. So if you say regional pricing is unfair because companies drop the price a little to allow us to pay $60 for a game instead of $100, it's a good kind of unfairness.
Keep in mind americans aren't counting income tax when we talk about our pay. We loose about 3/4 on average. For context, my last job, i was paid better than some people of a higher rank than me, and i could come home with anything between 100 and 500 (US) in a 2-weak period (my hours varied a lot). The cost of living is significantly higher, too, and my paychecks. For my area, the average person is only bringing about 24,000 argentinan pesos home, and rent alone is 12,000. The average cost of transportation (which mean job) is about 8,000 argentinan pesos (my gf is paying for 9000 pesos a week just to have her car, and that's not including insurance and other things like gas so i think that number's a bit out dated, though she actually has a position that comes with a license so she's definitely one of the better paid people around here). That leaves you about 4,000 pesos for food, water, electric, etc. Should be no surprise, but single mothers whom are living alone are getting governmental assistance as a result. That's another cost people don't understand, is the huge cultural difference. When i was working at Empire, the first thing i noticed when visting coworkers from Honduras is that they had multiple families in one home. The way this is offset in the US is that no one is stay-at-home in one of these areas. This is not food, electric, heating, water, legally required insurances (mostly car at this point), or anything else you can think of.

And to convert all these to weekly costs instead of their usual basis (annual or monthly or biweekly) i did downward rounding of all but one of the costs, which is all to the credit of your argument and against mine. And worse yet, it's not rural verses city, because i keep hearing about these "pod people" in new york whom basically have a bed and maybe a table. Not sure what all is going on there, though.

Now, of course, you'll hear about gog users and their massive backlogs, and surely you'll think that this can't be the norm for any of us. Well, obviously there are some richer parts of america, and some poorer parts (i'm definitley in one of the poorer parts), but you'll find most of us are pooling resources together some fancy way to get it. For example, when i worked full time at empire, since it wasn't enough to live off of, i could still live at home, and my father was at one of the better paying jobs (the highest paid around for someone who doesn't have a degree, but it was dangerous work and he has multiple permanent injuries from it), and, seeing the dlc traps, the games as a service, etc comming our way, i considered all my purchases on GOG long-term investments and spent entire paychecks. Between that and all the freebees over the years, I have between 600 and 700 GOG games, maybe about 15 on steam (without counting), and probably about 20 on dlsite. Of course, without that special opportunity of being an absolute freeloader i sure as hell wouldn't have all that, and that's just PC. With GOG going into the shitter the way it is lately, i'm not expecting to buy much more, and if i do it'll be almost all on dlsite, which is way cheaper with games. Until i find a job that will actually pay enough for me to afford basic necessities like rent, food, water, electic, etc (not counting video games etc) i'm also basically only affording based on what moeny that comes to me for this faux covid relief, money people give me 'cause of our holiday mania, etc (which is fine for me, i think it's certainly more than i deserve because i ain't earning a penny of it). I'm certainly one of the most fortunate in my area for a huge number of reasons.

Like i said, though: i wouldn't argue that we're better off, just not nearly as better off as everyone around the world thinks we are. We don't have the economy that we used to have.
There are still no regional prices in GOG for NIS games, prices for South America are absurd in comparison to Steam
If they want to encourage me to purchase games, raising prices isn't going to work.

Honestly all older games should be $5 or less. And if i were purchasing games at this time, i'd wait until sales and preferably 90% off or better.
Base price of "Saviors of Sapphire Wings / Stranger of Sword City Revisited Digital Limited Edition" was around 120 BRL on release. Kinda expensive, but afaik, the price in USD is already kinda high. Now, without discounts, it's costing 346.89 BRL. Even physical Switch games, which tend to be overpriced here, aren't usually as expensive. And most of their games are like that now.

Regional prices are made specifically for countries with weaker currencies. By increasing it so much, they're getting even less sales at best, and piracy for their products will spike at worst.