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What's "TTRPG" ?
Are you kidding me ? The Rogue class is the one with many professions and you don't have to max. or even use any one of the skills you choose: locksmith, scout, cartographer, spy, assassin (not the class), archer, two weapon fighter, duelist, pirate, pickpocket bum, tracker, magic "user" (devices), detective. And you can combine with others to make the profession not class, even more powerful. Pen & paper style the most versatile.
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AS882010M0: What's "TTRPG" ?
Table Top RPG. The most well known, of course, being Dungeons & Dragons, but there are plenty of others. Of note is that these games are played with a group of people, one of whom is the Game Master (D&D calls this person the Dungeon Master), and not on a computer.

CRPGs, on the other hand, are the games you play on a computer. Typically single-player, though multiplayer CRPGs exist (in fact, MMORPGs are an extreme example of this concept). Notably, these games are played without a GM, as the computer takes on the role that the GM would ordinarily have.

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AS882010M0: What's "TTRPG" ?
Are you kidding me ? The Rogue class is the one with many professions and you don't have to max. or even use any one of the skills you choose: locksmith, scout, cartographer, spy, assassin (not the class), archer, two weapon fighter, duelist, pirate, pickpocket bum, tracker, magic "user" (devices), detective. And you can combine with others to make the profession not class, even more powerful. Pen & paper style the most versatile.
Let's look at this from a CRPG perspective:
* locksmith: Is this really a useful skill for an adventurer?
* scout: This role is often not viable in CRPGs, as they're often not programmed to handle it. (Some are, like the Baldur's Game games, but not all of them, and even there you can do this with a mage (with the proper spells) or the Wizard Eye summon.)
* cartographer: This role is not important enough to devote an entire party slot to. (Worth noting that, in the Might & Magic games, it's typically the Sorcerer who starts with this skill.)
* spy: Doesn't really work in CRPGs, unless there's an explicitly scripted section.
* assassin: Probably one more likely to work in a CRPG.
* archer: feels like a fighter-type role to me
* two weapon fighter: ditto
* duelist: ditto
* pirate: This requires the right setting to really work.
* pickpocket bum: Honestly, I haven't found pickpocketing to be useful enough to devote a party slot to, except maybe in a game like Final Fantasy 5 where you can steal from enemies. (I note that JRPG-style stealing from enemies doesn't make sense, particularly since killing the enemy won't allow you to claim the loot.)
* tracker: Seems rather situational. You need the right setting, and it seems that this can only work if scripted.
* magic "user": Feels like a mage role, not a thief role, to me. Also, there's the natural tendency of players to hoard consumable items for later, and then never use them, making this role rather pointless for most casual players. (On the other hand, speedrunners often make good use of items that casual players never use.)
* detective: Again, would need to be scripted to work at all.
Post edited April 18, 2023 by dtgreene
Yes, I do understand the limitations of Computer run RPGs, nothing to compare to a GM run table top, I used to call pen & paper. So you must really hate Skyrim and Fallout 4.
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AS882010M0: Yes, I do understand the limitations of Computer run RPGs, nothing to compare to a GM run table top, I used to call pen & paper. So you must really hate Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Those games actually don't qualify as "RPG" by my definition (though note that I have not played Fallout 4).
No, many do not translate to CRPG & feels do not count, rogue could be a good average fighter, no min.-maxing.
But - Pick Lock (locksmith) and Disable Trap (scout) is absolutely essential to Adventuring. I am very pissed in games with no rogue in the party, because many good treasures and sometimes quest items are locked behind a door or chest or trapped to where the chest explodes, nothing left but junk.
What doesn't translate well into CRPG are - Hide & Move Silently - since you are moving as a party of 4-6 players (NPCs). Some do it better than others by stopping to ask Player for who to skill check.
A rogue can easily impersonate a mage with wands & scrolls. Table Top laughter if chars. are unknown to each other.
I always picture a Ranger being someone who dual wields two swords and is a sharpshooter with a bow. And is a master tracker in the woods.
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AS882010M0: But - Pick Lock (locksmith) and Disable Trap (scout) is absolutely essential to Adventuring. I am very pissed in games with no rogue in the party, because many good treasures and sometimes quest items are locked behind a door or chest or trapped to where the chest explodes, nothing left but junk.
Honestly, to me it feels like simply putting locks and reaps in the game is really just an excuse to make a rogue required, and that, in general, games would be better off without those mechanics.

In other words, rather than arbitrarily make rogue required, just remove the mechanics that make the rogue required; if you still want the rogue class to exist, give it some abilities that are not basically required.

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AS882010M0: A rogue can easily impersonate a mage with wands & scrolls.
Only if such items exist, and a rogue can use such items.

In many games, the response is "but so can a fighter!". In other games, there are no such items.

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Kelefane: I always picture a Ranger being someone who dual wields two swords and is a sharpshooter with a bow. And is a master tracker in the woods.
Ultima 3's Ranger really is none of them.
* There's no dual wielding in the game.
* Rangers can't use the +4 Bow, making them less effective at range than other fighter-types. (But note that this weapon is expensive enough that not every player bothers buying this weapon.)
* There is no such thing as tracking in Ultima 3.
* But Rangers can cast low level spells of both types.
Post edited April 18, 2023 by dtgreene
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UndeadHalfOrc: Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (I know, strategy game, but I felt like including it because of all 18 available classes, it's one of the worst)
Absolutely incorrect. One of the better choices in Heroes 3.
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Kelefane: I always picture a Ranger being someone who dual wields two swords and is a sharpshooter with a bow. And is a master tracker in the woods.
Parry is overrated, shield is best. But if you spec. in all those, under what level ? Depends which game. Yes, Ranger can be one hell of a fighter. Or you can also dual class Ranger/Paladin for a killer combo.

When CRPGs break D&D Rules - Pathfinder.
Everything in the Pathfinder PC games so far is broken, spells, level balance, etc...
By the time you get good spells, monster spell resistance is 45. Etc...
When you master fighting and your AB is ~40 with weapon bonus, monster AC is 55-65 plus spell buffs.
Post edited April 19, 2023 by AS882010M0
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AS882010M0: When CRPGs break D&D Rules - Pathfinder.
Everything in the Pathfinder PC games so far is broken, spells, level balance, etc...
By the time you get good spells, monster spell resistance is 45. Etc...
When you master fighting and your AB is ~40 with weapon bonus, monster AC is 55-65 plus spell buffs.
You get good spells at level 1, jeez...
Actually sleep worked once cause I was fighting human cultists. But those disappear in the higher levels.