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General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 11, 2014
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apehater: is your post suppose to insult me? if yes then why i prefer to discuss without such things. if you want a discussion with insults, offense and aggression, then i wont continuing to discuss with you on this topic
Not sure where you got any insult here, as im openly sayd what "i cant believe". I hoped for some explanation of a step when i got you wrong, what resulted in that paradoxal outcome. But if you mean what i should indeed start to believe into it - i had to comply, just i usually trying to expect a good from other people, not bad. If you somehow manage to see that pic abusive to you, we're better stop, thats right.
Post edited August 11, 2014 by DarzaR
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: Please re-take your 8 or 9th grade history class. The UN was created due to the inefficiency of the League of Nations. And UN never had the same objectives as the League of Nations because ensuring peace in the whole world would mean empowering the "white men's burden" ideology. Moreover, the UN stabilizes the situation among superpowers by providing them with a permanent seat on the security council. No one else outside the superpowers has a permanent seat. And the votes of the superpowers are over most of the other countries'.
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DarzaR: You're serious now too? Literally you are claiming now, what after LN was totally failed with its agenda, only the great idea of providing a table for some guys, who, otherwise had not place to sit somewhere else and talk as i got, and amusing them with ability to vetoe eachother prevent them from start an imminent all-out war between them? "-We're starting WW3 nao! -Vetoed! -:((." Problem here is all such stuff doesnt work without NWO, WMB or whatewher you call it. In case "sacred UNSEC" will decide to act - it would be called NWO, WMB, Imperialism, any colour you like. And in case theyll veto eachother, but still act - it will be called the same. You cannot have an entity what is above sovereign countries, and then reject its proposals, claiming sovereignity. Its of no use then. But you can make it absolutely ineffective, and notice it only in cases when it fails, happily forgotten about its existence all other time. But its of no use again then.
Here's why LoN failed. LoN was supposed to be this almighty creation that will unite humans and bring world peace, and in Woodrow Wilson's vision maybe even stop world starvation. Problem was that not many countries agreed with this. They signed a treaty and that was about it. LoN had no army to impose it's rules and no objective leader. UN is different in this case. It has military and entire councils to decide what when and where, bu here springs another difference. After WWII the agenda of the world changed too. Wilson was probably the only leader that was influenced by Enlightenment principles when he created LoN, but none of his successors were. So how do you stop countries like Japan, US, Russia, GB etc. from forming alliances and plotting another war? You put them under the same roof under the same alliance (no pun intended for Terra), this way it becomes a bit more complicated to act. In the meantime, technology avoid a great deal. We have now reached a point where a world war may be fatal for life on Terra and nobody is willing to take the risk to test that theory anymore. You can outlaw bio weapons, you can outlaw poisonous gases, you can outlaw explosive bullets. But humans like a saying: "In war and love, everything's permitted!"
Posted August 11, 2014
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DarzaR: Because it lacks required prerequisites, and bear signs of external agression, eh. Cant believe you actually participating here, but somehow missed that stuff. http://awesci.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Dunning-Kruger.jpg
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apehater: is your post suppose to insult me? if yes then why i prefer to discuss without such things. if you want a discussion with insults, offense and aggression, then i wont continuing to discuss with you on this topic
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Dischord: I mean interests outside of the people there.
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apehater: yes ok, but from what i know the ukraine army uses air bomber and artellery against own people inside the country, that is civil war for me. of course the situation is grown up to this by help from outside.

and to clearify, with help from outside i mean the help that the provisoric government in kiew recieves, i'm on the site of russia.
I understand, I'm on the side of the Ukraine, a sovereign nation; just as I'd be on your side, if you were ever invaded.

Spin and disinformation always exists in these matters, that is why I just try to put myself as a member of the nation that it is happening to.

I would just want to be left alone, as the Ukraine was for years. They did not attack anyone, yet they are getting the crap.

They are the only nation that had nukes that gave them up, on their own, so I'm inclined to believe that they aren't expansionist in nature.

This crap should just cease.
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: "
I guess i got what you mean already. You are still implying what the fact of WW3 hadnt started yet, is attributed to some entity, what was created with such claim. You understand, what you can claim what Reptiloids hadnt overcome "Terra" yet, only because AluminiumHatWatchman bravely keep them at bay (as they claim)? And yes, its quite puzzling, why they had sign Atlantic Charter, if they meant something completely different.
Post edited August 11, 2014 by DarzaR
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: "
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DarzaR: I guess i got what you mean already. You are still implying what the fact of WW3 hadnt started yet, is attributed to some entity, what was created with such claim. You understand, what you can claim what Reptiloids hadnt overcome "Terra" yet, only because AluminiumHatWatchman bravely keep them at bay (as they claim)? And yes, its quite puzzling, why they had sign Atlantic Charter, if they meant something completely different.
The whole credit may not go to UN, but one must be ignorant not to see it actually was one factor that contributed to such a balance, as unstable as it may be.
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: The whole credit may not go to UN, but one must be ignorant not to see it actually was one factor that contributed to such a balance, as unstable as it may be.
Oh, that of no doubt then, fully agree here. Just its not cost-effective factor, returning to the start again.
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: The whole credit may not go to UN, but one must be ignorant not to see it actually was one factor that contributed to such a balance, as unstable as it may be.
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DarzaR: Oh, that of no doubt then, fully agree here. Just its not cost-effective factor, returning to the start again.
Cost effectiveness is debatable. We can argue as much as we want about this, but truth is, the most cost effective governments in the world are those of countries like Norway and Finland. And here rise's the question. What cost is too high to maintain peace?
Posted August 11, 2014
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DarzaR: Oh, that of no doubt then, fully agree here. Just its not cost-effective factor, returning to the start again.
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HijacK: Cost effectiveness is debatable. We can argue as much as we want about this, but truth is, the most cost effective governments in the world are those of countries like Norway and Finland. And here rise's the question. What cost is too high to maintain peace?
Err, you hardly can compare Norway or Finland with UN, with goal to make UN looks decent. UN is closer to some Colombia or Venezuela at best. Problem is what you need to generate an alternative universe without nuclear deterrence, but with same UN to measure how it actually work. We all know what UN can stop "little wars", and be blamed for it afterthat, but we simply cant know for sure what it actually do in case of major one, as it have no mechanisms to actually influence the "superpower" in case it decide not to listen at some point. You can also easily say what LN was effective in maintaining the "Terra" "major peace" for whooping 19.5 years.
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: Cost effectiveness is debatable. We can argue as much as we want about this, but truth is, the most cost effective governments in the world are those of countries like Norway and Finland. And here rise's the question. What cost is too high to maintain peace?
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DarzaR: Err, you hardly can compare Norway or Finland with UN, with goal to make UN looks decent. UN is closer to some Colombia or Venezuela at best. Problem is what you need to generate an alternative universe without nuclear deterrence, but with same UN to measure how it actually work. We all know what UN can stop "little wars", and be blamed for it afterthat, but we simply cant know for sure what it actually do in case of major one, as it have no mechanisms to actually influence the "superpower" in case it decide not to listen at some point. You can also easily say what LN was effective in maintaining the "Terra" "major peace" for whooping 19.5 years.
How so if LN didn't stop militarism of Germany, Russia and US?
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: How so if LN didn't stop militarism of Germany, Russia and US?
I did missed something here? UN had stopped theyr militarisms now? Or you mean it "doesnt seen them outright clashing eachother during UN functioninig"? But then again - LN did that for same whooping 19.5 years, ofc UN doing better, that no doubt.
Posted August 11, 2014
ok that was a fail, i guess.
Post edited August 11, 2014 by apehater
Posted August 11, 2014
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apehater: 5 minutes, then i gonna drop a game elsewhere:

BUMP
Welcome to the club... not on topic, but I have one sitting out there too :-)
Posted August 11, 2014
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HijacK: How so if LN didn't stop militarism of Germany, Russia and US?
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DarzaR: I did missed something here? UN had stopped theyr militarisms now? Or you mean it "doesnt seen them outright clashing eachother during UN functioninig"? But then again - LN did that for same whooping 19.5 years, ofc UN doing better, that no doubt.
I have never said UN's mission is to stop militarism. That's what you just implied. Once again I go to basics. UN's role is of balance.
Posted August 12, 2014
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apehater: yes ok, but from what i know the ukraine army uses air bomber and artellery against own people inside the country, that is civil war for me. of course the situation is grown up to this by help from outside.
and that's as far away from truth as it can be - terrorists are doing that - http://by24.org/2014/07/14/russian_terrorists_in_lugansk_killed_people_in_civil_districts/. You are free to believe whatever you want but think for a moment about this - if these are ukrainian soldiers how could they should from inside of the city controlled by terrorists ?


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apehater: and to clearify, with help from outside i mean the help that the provisoric government in kiew recieves, i'm on the site of russia.
Of course you are:) doesn't mean you're on the right side though.
Posted August 12, 2014
Some people should study foreign language a bit more to make some sense. Had a good laugh of some russian folks telling "true" stories about Ukraine and real situation in it. Keep telling shit. The more it stinks, the less people will actually continue to participate in this wrongly named topic, the more reasons to eventually can it.
Post edited August 12, 2014 by AzureKite
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts)