So to what should be compare Russia? Maybe to a failed democracy with corrupt elites, poor standard of living, a dependent justice (aka injustice), limited civil rights, voting frauds, a handicapped opposition, controlled media.

It's not looking good for most of Russians. They'll stay poor while some of their fellows get rich.

That's why I so often refer to russian government here instead of Russians because I think one cannot regard Russia as functional democracy. What happens is not so much the fault of the Russian people. in it's core democracy in Russia is deeply dysfunctional. But we cannot do much from outside, can we?

Surely this won't be the begin of a new cold war but still it is a severe crisis. Already for a repeated time Russia is invading it's neighbours. How much longer will this be tolerated? The russian government is playing with the fire and that means they basically are a risk on an international scale. It's not good, whatever way you look at it. The only good thing is that it's an eye opener.

Sure that is a possibillity. This all means that the russian resources export is important. But there is a probably a limit to what Ukraine and all the other receivers are willing to take up with for the delivery of gas.

So this is a problem but one we have to face if we really are serious. In this we better show solidarity with fellow sufferers. Noone should expect that sanctions go only one way but always tolerating being bullied around? There is a limit.

Clearly we would all be better off if this crisis could have been solved before in a manner that we all can agree but it hasn't. Reaction to a crisis is always only the second best option. But that's where we are.

I would compare Russia to any of the governments in Central Asia or South America in terms of political development. No country in the world is a democracy, even those regarded as being the pinnacle of democracy. Most of those issues you raised are issues in most of the countries in the world. Most of those issues like corruption come to down to the state of economic development in that country, in terms of Russia they're still recovering from the collapse of the USSR and the looting of state assets that occurred in the chaotic years afterward.

Nothing is "objectively" anything. And climbing onto the bandwagon of condemning Russia at this stage is basically jumping onto the cheerleading bandwagon for the same countries that are engaged in a monumentally sized spying operation on the general public over the internet, with the NSA and the rest.

No side is innocent and every side is guilty of doing at some stage what they accuse their opponents of.

I personally refuse to support or condemn any of them, there isn't a country on Earth I would support. I'm just playing devil's advocate because I find Westerners who condemn Russia are hypocrites, weasels and jingoists.

I highly disagree. Stoning women for having sex, for example, is objectively wrong.

Actually its not hysterical bullshit, we're trying to get to NK standarts here for quite some time, but ofc its not easy way for big country. But we're working on it. Also by playing "devil advocate" you missed the fact what NK is true democracy, much more than US, AU or RU etc. Democracy in a perfect sence is quite weird stuff what strongly support negative selection, as it is way more cost efficient there than positive one, and NK amongst some ultra-radical religious organisations are the top on this planets in sence of "true democracy". So by playing it, you jump in similar wagon of people who are happy what there is another huge hypocricy power clearly added to existing ones. Not what non-hypocirisy one emerged instead, but just another example of total corruptness of world, what perfectly suit what you talked about existing corrupcy. As i sayd before, i see it quite weird to happy about, unless you are at Alpha Centaury or so. Btw Australia not so far away, it even had some ground bombardments in ww2, and technology was quite lame that time. Objective neon was about clear evidence of growing negative, same coutries what performed spy operations etc wasnt hurt for it, so now you have a more countries with such ideas, and now have a more problems to deal with.

My opinion is have no weight at all, but real problem roots in overvaluing the "territorial integrity", what lead to a deep problems of some people will claim a rights to a whole piece of land, and ability to tell anyone whos live there what to do, because this piece of land was drawn borders in some international meeting tenths or hundred years ago by some different people. And if other people will manage to revert the claim of aforementioned "some people", those people will fall into same procedure. And both (or more) groups have the equal rights of possession there, just proportional. If you live in a big family in huge house, and your nephew hate cabbage, you could force him to eat that cabbage, as you see it as your house, and all other family are fine with it too, so he will grow hate on you, and finally will hit you with knife, getting into problem not only you and himself, but all the family; or he will grow up, wait till you die and ban cabbage using at all when take power. Or you could let him live in his part and eat what he want, and maybe dont even talk with him at all, but he still have a property rights for some part of building there. Is such rought approximation is ok?

I read an article in GQ (here is an article about the article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112530364 ) and I was blown away. The amount of strong evidence that Putin did all kinds of horrible shady murderous stuff is just insurmountable. And those who report it tend to disappear or worse.

Well, funny just thing about the fact what you are most probably think what even talking about role of US govt in 9/11 is purely sign of talker being a paranoidal conspiracy wet-brain? Am i right? And thats a negative selection in working. Anybody who care perfectly know whos did the Moscow bombings here, its not even could be count as conspyracy theory, merely a fact instead. But it work, even if done so lame way, and cause no problems at all, so US, with much more skill in performig and trying to cover it up surely was glad to "re-shoot" it with Hollywood scale. And it worked again. The real problems would start when both countries wouldnt just try to meet eachother standarts of actions, and would look at other examples of happend stuff. Bocassa? Legally elected president of democratic country, fine. Loved by people, so decided to drop unneeded contract time restrictions, fine. Declared himself Emperor and eat some people? Fine again. Lived long happy live even after get ousted, and have a strong sympathies amongs people there even now? Simply exellent.

You can't compare countries and family ties. If grandpa dies, everyone starts to claim his piece of land according to the law, but this same procedure will create and destroy countries by the hundreds. The way I see it, if you want to live in another country, go there and live. If you can't, well, duh, you're in a bad luck or you're not trying good enough.

Thats exactly the way of thinking what is cause the problems. It result what secessions happens (or not happens) after wars, if secession still happen in result - then war was just bullshit for nothing, if not - it mean what one side was declared "more right" simply because it was more powerful, and essentially ripped all the rights of possession of other sides, what they had as being equal citizens of same country. Imagine if families worked same way? I want to change our 2-room apt where i live with brother, because im tired of his behaviour. Well, no problem in real life usually. And you suggest to act "no fucking way, take this knife hit, or simply get outta here if you dislike to be here, its a holy land we bequeathed from father!" way. Happens too, but it looks as something creepy under this occasions. And it somehow looks as the only valid way when it came to countries.

One can play devil's advocate to the devil's advocate then. Levelling everything out you basically make the same mistakes you accuse others of (hyprocrites, ...) yourself, only in the other direction.

Things are always different. Nobody is innocent but still not everyone is equally guilty. Not everyone is doing what he accuses others of. There are poor countries that have a better democracy than richer countries. Maybe they just try harder or they are lucky. There are more peaceful countries than others, even if considered over a longer period of time.

And: Two wrongs doesn't make one right. If the US is doing something bad and Russia too it doesn't mean it's both okay. It just means it's both not okay. And you would still have to show that it's bad on an equal scale to compare it really.

Nobody can stay neutral. Not doing anything is also doing something. Not having an opion is also having an opinion (don't care opinion). Everyone implicitly always gives his consent or dissent to everything that happens by what he does or doesn't. So we are always part of everything and always responsible for everything of course only partly.

You said one has to think in degress, but with also saying that there isn't a country on Earth you would support you actually don't think in degrees.

That's my version of devil's advocate. I don't want to upset anyone. If it happens, please consider my earnest apologies - it is not intended.

"I have bad news for you, sunshine". We're already had sent and deployed "the surrogate band", as you know. While democracy in Russia isnt perfect yet, compared to NK, but last actions what grabbed your attention are doing with deep people's support. Forget the fairy tells about opressed Russians suffering the tyrant, and refresh your memory with somethnig like Cabaret, or some other similar stuff. Trust Us.

Why should we?
What you see as "true democracy" is simply "might makes right", which comes with it's own set of misusages, proven by history time after time. That's the reason democracy has separation of powers and western democracies had to learn that the hard way. Neither Russia nor North Korea are even close that that point.

No, true democracy is when majority of people decide what all other are doing. It have nothing about separation of powers etc, you could have separation of power in monarchy aswell. Say, if majority dont want separation of power - its democracy still, just without separation of powers, what local people see as unneeded for some reason. They have such right. Fake democracy is when you have to rig the votes to get it; when people do it sincerely - its the democracy what you probably like. And its way more easy to make people sincerely vote as needed by some working with them from the start, than manage to propose something so good for them, so they will agree with you if they are enough self-developed on theyr own. True democracy is when you dont have to use might and still have enough % for you, like NK. They dont need to do frauds, people sincerely do theyr choice. Just you think what they do a wrong one, and blame them for "non-democratic".