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General discussionThis has been happening way too often. (non-game related)(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 12, 2015
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hedwards: Lastly, the term straight exists because we needed a word to deal with that situation. We can't label straight people as non-gay, bisexual and other groups are non-gay as well. And straight men have been having sex for various reasons for millenia. I'm not sure that straight or heterosexual are particularly good terms, but they exist because they serve a necessary function and are minimally judgmental.
Cisgender serves the same purpose when talking about gender identity that straight does when talking about sexual orientation. Also, there are other gender identites; not everyone identifies as male or female.

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dtgreene: According to this article:
http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/27/these-are-trans-women-killed-so-far-us-2015?page=full
10 of the first 12 murders of trans women were of trans women of color. In other words, race is clearly a factor here.

(This article actually talks about each of those women, but despite being recently updated, is already out-of-date.)
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hedwards: No, you're assuming that it's the race. This is a rare event, it definitely could be race, but the main motivating factor isn't likely race.
Actually, assuming that one factor is the main motivating factor is the problem. In this case, it is the intersection of being female, transgender, and black that seems to motivate these crimes. Change one of these parameters, and the risk of being murdered decreases.
Post edited August 12, 2015 by dtgreene
Posted August 12, 2015
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hedwards: Lastly, the term straight exists because we needed a word to deal with that situation. We can't label straight people as non-gay, bisexual and other groups are non-gay as well. And straight men have been having sex for various reasons for millenia. I'm not sure that straight or heterosexual are particularly good terms, but they exist because they serve a necessary function and are minimally judgmental.
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dtgreene: Cisgender serves the same purpose when talking about gender identity that straight does when talking about sexual orientation. Also, there are other gender identites; not everyone identifies as male or female.
I already explained why straight was such a bad analogy. Straight needs to be independent of having sex with or being attracted only the opposite sex. Hence why they needed to invent the term Men having Sex with Men to deal with the cases where a straight man is having sex with another straight man.

As for other identities, that's certainly true. But, cis is a synonym for non-trans, so I'm not really sure how this relates, you yourself already acknowledged that.

You already acknowledged that the norm is to be non-trans, so perhaps rather than making up a new and rather pompous word, you could just use male and female. If you need to refer to somebody who isn't trans you can use the trans man and non-trans female or just female. It's perfectly clear, doesn't offend anybody and does a perfectly fine job of communicating the intent. I see those being used fairly often on okcupid and it doesn't dehumanize anybody or come off as judgmental.

There's also the issue of biological sex, but that's going to be messy no matter what anybody does and it's usually a bit more straightforward, even if there are more options.

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hedwards: No, you're assuming that it's the race. This is a rare event, it definitely could be race, but the main motivating factor isn't likely race.
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dtgreene: Actually, assuming that one factor is the main motivating factor is the problem. In this case, it is the intersection of being female, transgender, and black that seems to motivate these crimes. Change one of these parameters, and the risk of being murdered decreases.
Yes, but it's rather expedient of you to ignore which factor changes it faster. Not to mention that some communities have a bigger problem with the GLBT community anyways.
Posted August 12, 2015
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Tarnicus: ...
I find it amazing how myopic Western culture can be when it comes to the sanctity of life.
...
That sentence sums up your post quite well and I think there is a fairly simple explanation for this myopia:

Virtually everyone in the West is to some degree concerned about the larger issues at hand, mass starvation, wars, genocide, torture and so on. I often suspect that social justice concerns are too often -subconsciously- a way for white middle class people to show that they are more "socially aware" and therefor better than other white middle class people.
And in order to achieve that mythical moral higher ground, one has to go more and more niche, to smaller and smaller minorities - all of which are worth protecting but I sure hope it comes from a genuine place in the heart and isn't just a platform to distinguish oneself. The so called "social justice fus ro dah". Perceptive people can sniff it out easily.

Also, showing concern and actually doing something aren't the same. I can't give anyone any brownie points for internet and social media activism. "But raising awareness is important, I'm doing my part" . Imho, that's just being lazy. I respect people who do volunteer work, with their own hands in their own time and with their own resources. Or quietly donate to a chosen cause of worth.
Posted August 13, 2015
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Antimateria: black trans woman?

You mean a guy who is a girl but is black?
I was confused too.

On another note, most people won't care. After all there are more than 7 billion people on this planet.

Nothing really is gonna change if some ordinary black trans woman ends up dead.

On the other hand, if this was a good looking blonde hair, blue eyed young white female then the entire nation's media would be giving this coverage 24/7.
Posted August 13, 2015
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Antimateria: black trans woman?

You mean a guy who is a girl but is black?
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tort1234: I was confused too.

On another note, most people won't care. After all there are more than 7 billion people on this planet.

Nothing really is gonna change if some ordinary black trans woman ends up dead.

On the other hand, if this was a good looking blonde hair, blue eyed young white female then the entire nation's media would be giving this coverage 24/7.
People care but just not much.People seem to be insane. Bombs away, they will one time see it.
Posted August 13, 2015
I swear to you I read the first sentence of the OP and got confused... thought it was this:
Attachments:
blacktransam.jpg (14 Kb)
Posted August 13, 2015
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yogsloth: I swear to you I read the first sentence of the OP and got confused... thought it was this:
Nice car.. Do I regret something what I have said. Sometimes. I would like dirt rally to play with you =P
Posted August 13, 2015
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awalterj: . I respect people who do volunteer work, with their own hands in their own time and with their own resources. Or quietly donate to a chosen cause of worth.
Especially when they do it for the same people that they utterly fuck at every election/votation, right ?

Yeah, do give lessons on caring for big issues.
Posted August 13, 2015
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hedwards: Lastly, the term straight exists because we needed a word to deal with that situation. We can't label straight people as non-gay, bisexual and other groups are non-gay as well. And straight men have been having sex for various reasons for millenia. I'm not sure that straight or heterosexual are particularly good terms, but they exist because they serve a necessary function and are minimally judgmental.
Uh, "straight" exists as a term for heterosexuals due to the term "bent" used for homosexuality - which is derived in its use from the term "deviant" as used by various denominations of... well probably more than just Christianity... since... uh... Judas kissing Jesus!?

So yeah. Just straightening out the bent language definitions on this minor deviation!

* * * * *

As to the direct topic (as listed in the title), thats some awful shit - though I do agree that the media is very much a circus these days - and as a result I do wonder exactly how it will be reported more widely as it filters through (ie with known facts and evidence, or pure conjecture and bullshit - my guess is the latter).
Posted August 13, 2015
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hedwards: Lastly, the term straight exists because we needed a word to deal with that situation. We can't label straight people as non-gay, bisexual and other groups are non-gay as well. And straight men have been having sex for various reasons for millenia. I'm not sure that straight or heterosexual are particularly good terms, but they exist because they serve a necessary function and are minimally judgmental.
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Sachys: Uh, "straight" exists as a term for heterosexuals due to the term "bent" used for homosexuality - which is derived in its use from the term "deviant" as used by various denominations of... well probably more than just Christianity... since... uh... Judas kissing Jesus!?

So yeah. Just straightening out the bent language definitions on this minor deviation!

* * * * *

As to the direct topic (as listed in the title), thats some awful shit - though I do agree that the media is very much a circus these days - and as a result I do wonder exactly how it will be reported more widely as it filters through (ie with known facts and evidence, or pure conjecture and bullshit - my guess is the latter).
Don't get me wrong, I do think that straight is probably not the best terminology, the point I was making is that there had to be a term because there really wasn't one previously and there are legitimate things that need to be discussed at times where there wasn't a word.

But at this point, the word has really lost all meaning in that regard, do people really even bother to think about the origin of that or gay? There's a usage difference there, straight isn't typically used as an insult and gay is a pretty weak one to choose compared with the various other options.

As a term cis fails on multiple levels. It's an obscure word that a lot of people are just not going to get to begin with. Then it's a word that replaces other words that people are likely to actually know, people are going to know what non-trans means in a given situation, but they're not going to understand what cis means without a lot of help.

And lastly, all it does is to serve as a strawman and as a way of being condescending. There's enough of these bullshit terms out there to begin with, adding one that doesn't actually help is a bit much.

If people wish to refer to themselves as cis-gendered, that's really their prerogative, but it's a bullshit term and deserves to be forgotten as soon as possible.

Don't get me wrong, I do think that as a society we need to do a better job of getting over this. But, using it as an excuse to further denigrate men's gender choices is hypocritical at best.
Posted August 13, 2015
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Sachys: As to the direct topic (as listed in the title), thats some awful shit - though I do agree that the media is very much a circus these days - and as a result I do wonder exactly how it will be reported more widely as it filters through (ie with known facts and evidence, or pure conjecture and bullshit - my guess is the latter).
Or if it even gets reported at all. Or, even if it does get reported, whether the media will use the correct name and pronouns, or whether (as happens way too often) the media dednames and misgenders the deceased.
Posted August 13, 2015
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awalterj: . I respect people who do volunteer work, with their own hands in their own time and with their own resources. Or quietly donate to a chosen cause of worth.
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Telika: Especially when they do it for the same people that they utterly fuck at every election/votation, right ?

Yeah, do give lessons on caring for big issues.
That's one of my very serious problems with the idea of charitable donations replacing proper government aid. Sexy diseases get more funding than ones that aren't. Breast cancer gets a ton of money even though heart disease kills more women and happens to also kill a lot of men.

I think right now in the US transexual and transgender rights are probably the next one we need to work on. There's still work to do on quite a few others, but in most cases we're close enough that it's largely a matter of letting society adjust to the 90% of the way there.
Posted August 13, 2015
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hedwards: stuff
Aye - did read that post, just clarifying the bent terminology in that section of your post as I said.

There were plenty of terms before that though - and in English (actually, even proto english languages) there have been terms for it for a very long time - not all of them bad / derogatory either. I think its another Victorianism passed into modern thinking (such as "curse words" which are not - and were actually the normal term for things prior to Victorian rule...).

Anyways, my part in this thread is over. Inabit!

*jumps overboard
Posted August 13, 2015
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dtgreene: Yet another black trans woman has been murdered. I mentioned this happening in a few other topics, but I think it deserves its own topic. This brings the total up to 13 so far. (Keep in mind that this only accounts for the ones that have been reported and where the victim was known to be trans.)

http://www.lonestarq.com/breaking-black-trans-woman-found-dead-in-dallas-is-13th-trans-person-murdered-in-2015/

I considered posting a topic about this a few days ago when the 12th murder happened, but I waited just a few days and another one happened. This really has been happening way too often.
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Tarnicus: "The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization estimates that about 805 million people of the 7.3 billion people in the world, or one in nine, were suffering from chronic undernourishment in 2012-2014. Almost all the hungry people, 791 million, live in developing countries, representing 13.5 percent, or one in eight, of the population of developing counties."

Source.

I find it amazing how myopic Western culture can be when it comes to the sanctity of life. Does that mean I do not think that it is tragic that another human being has been murdered, regardless of their race/ethnicity/sex/gender? No, but there are some serious issues in the world that rarely receive a second of media time.

I realise that this is an unpopular thing to say but fuck there is an over-representation of media time on trans/LGBT issues in Western media right now. There are far more serious issues going on. The world is going to shit. We are fucking up our planet and an interdependent ecosystem and all people seem to give a shit about is whether or not 2 people of the same sex can get married and how tough life is for people who have gender issues. Many groups face starvation, war (I'm looking at YOU Western "democracies"), homelessness, etc and things like this pale in significance.

13 so far...tragic for every single one of them and the people who love them but statistically insignificant. This doesn't mean that I do not care, and I realise that I am coming across harshly, but it does not discount the fact that there are so many people dying in horrendous ways or suffering extremely at the hands of others and those issues barely get a moment of air-time.

13 black trans women dead. What is your solution? I cannot think of one that would counter bigotry and enhance their chance of life. As for war and starvation, I can think of many solutions and no-one wants to enact them because they aren't profitable.
finally a post that makes sense
Posted August 13, 2015
This is tragic and our attitude toward trans people does need to change. People are being murdered for being trans or gay, or black. Minorities. People are murdering minorities and the corporate-think wants us to "shove it under the blanket and forget about it". Sorry, it might not seem like a big issue to you, but to every north american, it really should be.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThis has been happening way too often. (non-game related)(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)