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Gilozard: There's a temporary spell, but it's not permanent and you have to find a mage willing to cast it on you. So that's not a real solution. There is a permanent item, but it's extremely rare.

I don't think they've changed the script of the original. But let's be real - BG was good but it had some problems. It's not perfect. Criticizing it is perfectly legitimate.

All that the writer said was basically 'Writing everyone the same is boring and feels forced to me, so I like to write different kinds of characters to keep things like real life'. That's not an agenda, that's an artist thinking about her art. This is an artist doing a good job. Nobody is making anyone like it, but it's perfectly normal for a writer to write things she feels better reflect reality.

Here, this article talks about it better than I can: http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/973517-debunking-absurdity-transphobic-baldurs-gate-controversy
Allright I was under the impression that there was a permanent version of polymorph but a quick google didn't bring anything up, maybe I was wrong been a while that I bothered reading rulebooks.
Still Edwin seems to have managed to permanently gender change himself and was later again gender changed by a mage much more powerful than him.
Also Mystra has permanently sex changed Elminster and the person in question is a Paladin right ?? I mean there would have been options.
But ya I watched that video and while the conversation is cringe worthy to me the whole thing isn't a big deal.
(And also I really don't know why the name would be weird in this setting and why can the player not react like a real Bhaalspawn and insult the npc)

See and the writer chick doesn't sound like she's bored of all the stereotypecharacters to me, it sounds like she is more interested in diversity for diversities sake than telling a good story.
Seems she has done that in a Pathfinder Adventure book before too.
But maybe I am a bit sensitive there seeing as when someone makes a character that the other side doesn't like, say Quiet of MGS, the creator can't just be proud of his art he has to be sorry for making such things or be staked.

But that aside, after I got interested in the whole story i find that the Transperson hasn't been the main critic for the most part, it seems the biggest issues are the bugs and that is where alot of the bad ratings come from.
Abyssmal writing is mentioned alot too (subjective I guess)
Also they seem to have changed beloved characters (Only Jaheira I care about, never had the rogue chick in my party) in this new expansion.
Now I don't know if they have been written well but changing a known character is always jarring.

Like someone said they media seems to have quite some success into painting this as a transphobic only campaign.
Hey they even fooled Ed Greenwood.

But for me, I won't be posting crap ratings all over the place but with these writers and that attitude Beamdog won't see a penny from me.
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Reaper9988
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Reaper9988: snip
A lot of the politics-only reviews are being removed or downvoted, I think, except on Metacritic. There used to be a ton, so much that a decent review was hard to find. There really are a lot of people who are caught up in the hype and leaving fake reviews and stuff that like. I feel sorry for people trying to moderate the review queue and Steam forums.

I've seen way more GG-inspired review bombing and targeting artists over the past few years than any other group doing it, and the people hating on this game are just so over the top.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the writer. To each their own!

The complaints about writing seem really silly to me though, because they mostly boil down to "I didn't like that Minsc got a new meme" or something like that. I'm not far in though so I'll see what I think as I get farther in.

I never played BG or BG2 when they first came out so I don't have nostalgia goggles on. Maybe that's part of the difference?
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Gilozard
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Gersen: Say they guy that regularly use "gaters" exactly the same way, how wonderful hypocrisy....
Try to find the last instance.

And when you did (hint: probably not in 2016, and rather not in the last two quarters of 2015, I'd guess), we can still talk about the differences between those concepts, that'll be fun. And the frequency of usage. You'll have to earn that though!
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Vainamoinen
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Reaper9988: snip
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Gilozard: A lot of the politics-only reviews are being removed or downvoted, I think, except on Metacritic. There used to be a ton, so much that a decent review was hard to find. There really are a lot of people who are caught up in the hype and leaving fake reviews and stuff that like. I feel sorry for people trying to moderate the review queue and Steam forums.

I've seen way more GG-inspired review bombing and targeting artists over the past few years than any other group doing it, and the people hating on this game are just so over the top.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the writer. To each their own!

The complaints about writing seem really silly to me though, because they mostly boil down to "I didn't like that Minsc got a new meme" or something like that. I'm not far in though so I'll see what I think as I get farther in.

I never played BG or BG2 when they first came out so I don't have nostalgia goggles on. Maybe that's part of the difference?
Wut. It's been about two years or something with GamerGate... that's not a few years of GG-inspired.

But I guess y'all just can't stand not having your boogie man, eh? Have to rewrite history to make sure we're there to blame.
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Gilozard: A lot of the politics-only reviews are being removed or downvoted, I think, except on Metacritic. There used to be a ton, so much that a decent review was hard to find. There really are a lot of people who are caught up in the hype and leaving fake reviews and stuff that like. I feel sorry for people trying to moderate the review queue and Steam forums.

I've seen way more GG-inspired review bombing and targeting artists over the past few years than any other group doing it, and the people hating on this game are just so over the top.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the writer. To each their own!

The complaints about writing seem really silly to me though, because they mostly boil down to "I didn't like that Minsc got a new meme" or something like that. I'm not far in though so I'll see what I think as I get farther in.

I never played BG or BG2 when they first came out so I don't have nostalgia goggles on. Maybe that's part of the difference?
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Arinielle: Wut. It's been about two years or something with GamerGate... that's not a few years of GG-inspired.

But I guess y'all just can't stand not having your boogie man, eh? Have to rewrite history to make sure we're there to blame.
2 years is years of of people using the GG flag (2 > 1). So yeah, it's been years.

Also, I definitely ran into people who used the same tactics, for the same reasons, congregated in the same places and were very likely the same people, before the Anita Sarkesian/DepressionQuestDev harassment got the GG name started.

I think that's part of the problem - women and minorities have had actual lifetimes of having to wade through a ton of crap to try and enjoy their hobby, and their cup of rage is running over. I can easily see how someone who wasn't dealing with that would be blindsided by the anger the status quo had produced. But reacting like spoiled children to it was not the right way to handle things.
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Gilozard
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Arinielle: Wut. It's been about two years or something with GamerGate... that's not a few years of GG-inspired.

But I guess y'all just can't stand not having your boogie man, eh? Have to rewrite history to make sure we're there to blame.
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Gilozard: 2 years is years of of people using the GG flag (2 > 1). So yeah, it's been years.

Also, I definitely ran into people who used the same tactics, for the same reasons, congregated in the same places and were very likely the same people, before the Anita Sarkesian/DepressionQuestDev harassment got the GG name started.

I think that's part of the problem - women and minorities have had actual lifetimes of having to wade through a ton of crap to try and enjoy their hobby, and their cup of rage is running over. I can easily see how someone who wasn't dealing with that would be blindsided by the anger the status quo had produced. But reacting like spoiled children to it was not the right way to handle things.
*looks at my name, stares at post*
*checks under clothes, stares back at post*

Uh....I uh...hate to break it to ya but...

Quit speaking for my gender, dumbass. ._. Y'all keep saying this shit and it isn't true... fucking hell, dude.
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Gilozard: 2 years is years of of people using the GG flag (2 > 1). So yeah, it's been years.

Also, I definitely ran into people who used the same tactics, for the same reasons, congregated in the same places and were very likely the same people, before the Anita Sarkesian/DepressionQuestDev harassment got the GG name started.

I think that's part of the problem - women and minorities have had actual lifetimes of having to wade through a ton of crap to try and enjoy their hobby, and their cup of rage is running over. I can easily see how someone who wasn't dealing with that would be blindsided by the anger the status quo had produced. But reacting like spoiled children to it was not the right way to handle things.
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Arinielle: *looks at my name, stares at post*
*checks under clothes, stares back at post*

Uh....I uh...hate to break it to ya but...

Quit speaking for my gender, dumbass. ._. Y'all keep saying this shit and it isn't true... fucking hell, dude.
I'm not the one making assumptions about gender in this conversation.

ETA: To be clear, 'dude' does not apply to me.
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Gilozard
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Arinielle: *looks at my name, stares at post*
*checks under clothes, stares back at post*

Uh....I uh...hate to break it to ya but...

Quit speaking for my gender, dumbass. ._. Y'all keep saying this shit and it isn't true... fucking hell, dude.
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Gilozard: I'm not the one making assumptions about gender in this conversation.

ETA: To be clear, 'dude' does not apply to me.
You just did. You said women had to wade through crap to be able to enjoy their hobby.

EDIT: The comment of 'dude' hurts you. Oh my. Apparently you aren't on the internet much. It applies to people no matter the gender. I use it because.... We're all dudes.
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Arinielle
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Gilozard: I'm not the one making assumptions about gender in this conversation.

ETA: To be clear, 'dude' does not apply to me.
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Arinielle: You just did. You said women had to wade through crap to be able to enjoy their hobby.
Which does not presume anything about the gender of anyone in this conversation.

Female gamers are subject to more abuse, and specifically more gendered abuse, than male gamers, regardless of player skill. They also are often excluded from gaming groups or treated weirdly once in them. Then there's the weirdly gendered marketing and other issues that stem from most people over 30 thinking of video games as a lonely boys hobby. There's a significant body of academic work on this topic if you care to look.

It's certainly possible to avoid running into this, but the vast majority of women can't.
Post edited April 06, 2016 by Gilozard
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Arinielle: You just did. You said women had to wade through crap to be able to enjoy their hobby.
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Gilozard: Which does not presume anything about the gender of anyone in this conversation.

Female gamers are subject to more abuse, and specifically more gendered abuse, than male gamers, regardless of player skill. They also are often excluded from gaming groups or treated weirdly once in them. Then there's the weirdly gendered marketing and other issues that stem from most people over 30 thinking of video games as a lonely boys hobby. There's a significant body of academic work on this topic if you care to look.

It's certainly possible to avoid running into this, but the vast majority of women can't.
Sauce plz

Y'all keep saying that shit over and over and over again. Do you not understand what you're saying or just wanna stay in your safe space and repeat the same things over and over and over again in hopes that it will be true one day?
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Arinielle: You just did. You said women had to wade through crap to be able to enjoy their hobby.
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Gilozard: Which does not presume anything about the gender of anyone in this conversation.

Female gamers are subject to more abuse, and specifically more gendered abuse, than male gamers, regardless of player skill. They also are often excluded from gaming groups or treated weirdly once in them. Then there's the weirdly gendered marketing and other issues that stem from most people over 30 thinking of video games as a lonely boys hobby. There's a significant body of academic work on this topic if you care to look.

It's certainly possible to avoid running into this, but the vast majority of women can't.
I dunno I'm male but I played some MMOs and still do I never actually seen real gendered harassment, maybe I'm just running with the right people.
(And yeah I played with a lot of women in there, some of whom are now really good friends of mine)
The worst kind of insults get thrown around in pvp but they are generally aimed at everyone regardless of gender.
(Which I can say I do too lol, Booze and PVP great fun and great insults)

Also come on Anita and Zoey, don't get the professional victims involved, they are so oppressed they even got to speak at the UN..

By Anitas logic Siege of Dragonsear is Transphobic because you can kill the trans person, there is no repercussion for it and you are rewarded with XP Hence by Anita logic you are encouraged to kill them.
Maybe if she'll get 300k more she'll make a video about it ;D
Check her Video about Hitman in the strip club hehe.
Post edited April 07, 2016 by Reaper9988
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Gilozard: snip.
"Female gamers are subject to more abuse" very wrong, they're subjected to a different kind of abuse, but no less or no more than a man gets.

"excluded from gaming groups" only if they break the rules which will get anyone kicked out, women don't have it worse than men.

"weirdly gendered marketing" 1)that's hardly the fault of the playerbase and 2)you're thinking AAA, which most sensible gamers tend to ignore when it comes to their PR efforts unless they're a reputable company.

"significant body of academic work" yeah, sure, most of it done by "feminist social sciences" academics which are as reliable as a barnacle. There's good reason the social sciences have been on the decline as far as the quality of the work being produced. If you manage to produce a link to a work by someone that I can't search for and determine is another bag of hot air trying to justify a paycheck with inane work that falls under closer scrutiny, I'll happily eat my shorts, so to speak. Until then, [CITATION REQUIRED].

"most women can't" Yes, they can. Most places are more than welcoming to pruning bad apples provided that the allegations being thrown around can be substantiated. Which seems to be the big issue with a lot of complaints in an age where recording equipment exists in too many devices as to render the numerical possibility of not catching someone out a number that's very close to zero.

As for the BG situation, poor writing mixed with a myriad issues and insane dev response turned a game that could've sold well into something to avoid or buy at a heavy discount to subsequently mod heavily. Which is sad.
Well, Beamdog stated they will remove the GG quote in Baldur's Gate. I am not sure if they are dumb or just pretend to be dumb. That is the least of the issues and the lowest one. I mean with poor writing, tokenism, character inconsistency, and tons of bugs, a mockery at a group is the least concern. We don't even mind the transgender and gay characters if they are well written and not just token characters. They should focus on improving the writing instead of trying to offer a crappy placebo.
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LeonardoCornejo: Well, Beamdog stated they will remove the GG quote in Baldur's Gate. I am not sure if they are dumb or just pretend to be dumb. That is the least of the issues and the lowest one. I mean with poor writing, tokenism, character inconsistency, and tons of bugs, a mockery at a group is the least concern. We don't even mind the transgender and gay characters if they are well written and not just token characters. They should focus on improving the writing instead of trying to offer a crappy placebo.
I do wonder if that's supposed to be ammo against GG, as in "Look what they made us do!"
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LeonardoCornejo: Well, Beamdog stated they will remove the GG quote in Baldur's Gate. I am not sure if they are dumb or just pretend to be dumb. That is the least of the issues and the lowest one. I mean with poor writing, tokenism, character inconsistency, and tons of bugs, a mockery at a group is the least concern. We don't even mind the transgender and gay characters if they are well written and not just token characters. They should focus on improving the writing instead of trying to offer a crappy placebo.
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Rusty_Gunn: I do wonder if that's supposed to be ammo against GG, as in "Look what they made us do!"
I don't think so, the guy who made the statement said something that in a TL;DR could be taken as "We know there are many things that made players upset, we acknowledge the you did not like the writing, and we acknowledge the bugs, but this is all we can promise to change." So more like trying to bargain the minor deffect for forgiveness.