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General discussionThe #Gamergate news thread(8424 posts) (8424 posts) 
(8424 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: And *I* didn't bring up anything Tza brought up Elliot Rodger here
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post2453
because he didn't like that Anita had tweeted that there must be something fundamentally wrong with the way that masculinity is expressed in our society that makes this sort of thing happen
It's not that I can't see why she got some people's backs up by saying that but it seemed a little one sided to not remind everyone of the sheer scale of the misogynistic hate, not just from Rodger himself but from some of the Incels who backed him and blamed society for his deeds that she was saying it in the face of.

While dragonbeast brought up IS and Al-Queda here:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post2461
Saying that ooh - you'd blame masculinity for Rodger but you wouldn't blame Islam for IS
And I said, coincidentally that, reading that Incel extremist's rant it did remind me of something a 'Radicalised' Muslim would post right before shipping off to Syria to sign up and help create the society of his wet dreams, so there's a 'masculinity' angle to ISIS too

But you're right in that I am allowing others to lead me Off Topic, I kind of lost sense of where I found myself trying to lead the thread and why, myself to be honest! So sorry about that at least!

I never meant to do any 'taring everyone with the same brush' type business though, and having had the accusation made against me I will take any further cries against anyone else with an even bigger pinch of salt than before...
I'm sorry... but I took your Bieber/environment exemple as a valid and debatable example. And you're accusing me of going off topic with my Sarkeesian exemple ?
That sounds profoundly hypocritical and dishonest to me.

And sorry again... But... are you really giving credit to these "toxic men and masculinity" "men are killers" Sarkeesian tweets ? These are down right wrong and you magically transform that in "Ooh, Tza didn't like it" ?
You then personnally put murdering misogynists maniacs views, crazy rad-MRA views and the average expression of masculinity in our society on the same level... and then talk about being one-sided ?

Good lord. I don't have words.
Post edited March 26, 2015 by Tza
Posted March 26, 2015
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dragonbeast: i'm fairly certain there were a lot of hate posts vs Brad on the antis side too, just like anti wu on the pro end. But gg did not condemn the idea of meeting with the enemy. The antis destroyed the idea.
As far as I can tell GG wanted discussion from the beginning but the opposing side didn't want to know other POVs existed
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: And *I* didn't bring up anything Tza brought up Elliot Rodger here
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post2453
because he didn't like that Anita had tweeted that there must be something fundamentally wrong with the way that masculinity is expressed in our society that makes this sort of thing happen
It's not that I can't see why she got some people's backs up by saying that but it seemed a little one sided to not remind everyone of the sheer scale of the misogynistic hate, not just from Rodger himself but from some of the Incels who backed him and blamed society for his deeds that she was saying it in the face of.

While dragonbeast brought up IS and Al-Queda here:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post2461
Saying that ooh - you'd blame masculinity for Rodger but you wouldn't blame Islam for IS
And I said, coincidentally that, reading that Incel extremist's rant it did remind me of something a 'Radicalised' Muslim would post right before shipping off to Syria to sign up and help create the society of his wet dreams, so there's a 'masculinity' angle to ISIS too

But you're right in that I am allowing others to lead me Off Topic, I kind of lost sense of where I found myself trying to lead the thread and why, myself to be honest! So sorry about that at least!

I never meant to do any 'taring everyone with the same brush' type business though, and having had the accusation made against me I will take any further cries against anyone else with an even bigger pinch of salt than before...
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Tza: I'm sorry... but I took your Bieber/environment exemple as a valid and debatable example. And you're accusing me of going off topic with my Sarkeesian exemple ?
That sounds profoundly hypocritical and dishonest to me.
Oh for... I can't apologies to RWarehall for going off topic without offending you by implicating you in it, now?
Anyone would think it was a capital crime or something...
Posted March 26, 2015
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Vainamoinen: snip
I see you can't help but continue to cherry-pick. Anyone can find negative comments on any prominent figure. So what does any of this mean? Nothing. You make no point, just try to attack and attack and attack. Get over yourself.

The fact that many in the GG movement saw it as a positive step for Wu while virtually no one in anti-GG supported her for it, speaks volumes and is the point.

But my guess is you'll go back to cherry-picking more quotes in your continued failure to address the real point of the discussion.
Posted March 26, 2015
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Vainamoinen: snip
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RWarehall: I see you can't help but continue to cherry-pick. Anyone can find negative comments on any prominent figure. So what does any of this mean? Nothing. You make no point, just try to attack and attack and attack. Get over yourself.

The fact that many in the GG movement saw it as a positive step for Wu while virtually no one in anti-GG supported her for it, speaks volumes and is the point.

But my guess is you'll go back to cherry-picking more quotes in your continued failure to address the real point of the discussion.
Shhhh.......don't give away their only strategy from the last 8 months..............
Posted March 26, 2015
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Tza: I'm sorry... but I took your Bieber/environment exemple as a valid and debatable example. And you're accusing me of going off topic with my Sarkeesian exemple ?
That sounds profoundly hypocritical and dishonest to me.
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Fever_Discordia: Oh for... I can't apologies to RWarehall for going off topic without offending you by implicating you in it, now?
Anyone would think it was a capital crime or something...
Where did I mention crime ? I'm just cringing when I meet dishonesty.

I just really don't appreciate your manners of turning what I thought to be a civil discussion into a complete off-topic mess caused by me.

And I'm baffled by the fact that you're defending some blatant hateful views and crass generalizations for whatever reasons.

But anyway, have a good day. I'm off.
Post edited March 26, 2015 by Tza
Posted March 26, 2015
low rated
As to the rest of this, it would be nice is everyone tries to cut down a bit on the hyperbole. I'm not sure painting anti-GG as a growing Communist or Socialist party accomplishes anything better than calling all MRAs one step away from mass murderers or comparing Gamergate to ISIS or other extreme Islamic groups.
Posted March 26, 2015
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What is with all the hypersensitivity anyway?

Can I ask you a serious question? Remember when Columbine happened and the right-wing press tried to pin the blame on games like Doom and the music of Marilyn Mason while the left, as always, was looking sternly at gun laws and gun control? Did you feel that by calling to ban any of those things that the press was saying that anyone who plays Doom and / or listens to Marilyn Mason should be watched because they're liable to go on a shooting spree any minute? Or the same for gun owners?

Because I certainly didn't and I was probably more into listening to Industral Rock than playing FPSes at the time! It was a 'This is why we can't have nice things' issue rather than a 'tarring everyone with the same brush' issue to me

Did you feel different? And if not why is everything suddenly 'tarring with the same brush' now?

If you ask me it's just this kind of hypersensitivity that led to
"Hey guys, a really, really bad thing has happened but we think, if we admit that gaming is in the mainstream now and realise that we don't need the 'gamer' identity anymore and we can all slowly more away from it until the only people still calling themselves 'gamers' are the misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings and then they will be easy to identify and dis-associate ourselves from"

to

"OMFG The entire gaming press just called all gamers ' misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings' "
In the first damn place

I'm NOT saying that that I don't think those articles weren't the biggest, most misguided PR fuck up in the entire history of huge-ass misguided PR fuck ups but I DO think they there were almost willfully misinterpreted and a lot of people they weren't aimed at were taking personal offence.
Posted March 26, 2015
What? Please elaborate on the significance of the comparison here.
Post edited March 26, 2015 by Shadowstalker16
Posted March 26, 2015
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Shadowstalker16: What? Please elaborate on the significance of the comparison here.
The press back then wasn't calling all people who play Doom potential Columbine shooters, in the same way that Anita wasn't calling all men potential Elliot Rodgers-es, in the same way that the gaming press didn't call all gamers 'misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings', in the same way that I didn't say that all MRA are liable to run off and join ISIS any minute!
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: What is with all the hypersensitivity anyway?

Can I ask you a serious question? Remember when Columbine happened and the right-wing press tried to pin the blame on games like Doom and the music of Marilyn Mason while the left, as always, was looking sternly at gun laws and gun control? Did you feel that by calling to ban any of those things that the press was saying that anyone who plays Doom and / or listens to Marilyn Mason should be watched because they're liable to go on a shooting spree any minute? Or the same for gun owners?

Because I certainly didn't and I was probably more into listening to Industral Rock than playing FPSes at the time! It was a 'This is why we can't have nice things' issue rather than a 'tarring everyone with the same brush' issue to me

Did you feel different? And if not why is everything suddenly 'tarring with the same brush' now?

If you ask me it's just this kind of hypersensitivity that led to
"Hey guys, a really, really bad thing has happened but we think, if we admit that gaming is in the mainstream now and realise that we don't need the 'gamer' identity anymore and we can all slowly more away from it until the only people still calling themselves 'gamers' are the misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings and then they will be easy to identify and dis-associate ourselves from"

to

"OMFG The entire gaming press just called all gamers ' misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings' "
In the first damn place

I'm NOT saying that that I don't think those articles weren't the biggest, most misguided PR fuck up in the entire history of huge-ass misguided PR fuck ups but I DO think they there were almost willfully misinterpreted and a lot of people they weren't aimed at were taking personal offence.
To your first question, I answer "Yes". I believed that certain influential groups and their media allies were specifically trying to implicate violent video games like Doom and loud music such as Marilyn Manson to this violence in an attempt to further restrict both. Why? Because it has been done to an extent and attempted before (i.e. PMRC and Jack Thompson, the ostracizing of D&D by Christian groups, etc). And to the second part, again "Yes". There are plenty of groups trying to use any event to promote their agenda of gun control.

These groups know very well, there will be other incidents and they will continue to push their agendas whenever they can. Basically, patient cherry-pickers...

As to the Gamers Are Dead articles, at least some of them, I see the same sort of opportunists looking to push their agendas in a crisis. I do not believe Leigh Alexander was being mischaracterized. I do believe she meant exactly what she said, in part because she has said similar before. She has a great deal of contempt for gamers in general (at least in terms of convention goers) and she displays this clearly in her article if you pay attention. I do believe there are groups of neo-feminists who are looking for any event to push their agendas, whether it be Gamergate or Ray Rice. And to be fair, I don't think it much of a surprise that some social conservatives have joined on the Gamergate side seeing the same sort of opportunity to fight their long-time enemies.
Posted March 26, 2015
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Shadowstalker16: What? Please elaborate on the significance of the comparison here.
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Fever_Discordia: The press back then wasn't calling all people who play Doom potential Columbine shooters, in the same way that Anita wasn't calling all men potential Elliot Rodgers-es, in the same way that the gaming press didn't call all gamers 'misogynistic, neck-beard shut-ins who can't treat women as fellow human beings', in the same way that I didn't say that all MRA are liable to run off and join ISIS any minute!
You and I have distinctly different memories as to what happened after Columbine...
Post edited March 26, 2015 by tremere110
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: What is with all the hypersensitivity anyway?
the same hypersensitivity that turned:

females are mortal in this game & can be shot with guns

to

This game encourages the player to violently murder women. It then allows and encourages you to mutilate and abuse the corpse. This is clearly and carefully constructed to promote abuse of women and create a rape culture in which women are only sexual objects.

and

I think you are making up arguments as you go and they are wrong

to

LOOK AT THAT MISOGYNY

oh and people like jack thompson did push the idea that games bred kids into columbine shooters.

bully (canis canem edid) was i think literally called a "columbine simulator" by him.
Post edited March 26, 2015 by dragonbeast
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: What is with all the hypersensitivity anyway?
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dragonbeast: oh and people like jack thompson did push the idea that games bred kids into columbine shooters.

bully (canis canem edid) was i think literally called a "columbine simulator" by him.
Jack Thompson was a whole other thing - a thing that we were mostly spared from on this side of 'the pond' so he was never really on my radar until recently.

I was more talking about what the mainstream press was saying directly in the aftermath, I remember my reactions to that, not what a fringe voice was harking back to 5 or 6 years later

It might well be Jack that has caused a lot of the paranoia that I'm talking about though, I did post a video that Movie Bob did on him a few pages back...
Posted March 26, 2015
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Fever_Discordia: snip.
Well, on this side of the pond, mainstream over-the-air TV was posing the question asking whether violent video games created school shooters...it was a very serious thing and was not just Jack Thompson. Hard-core music also was linked into the discussion. American TV has become very sensationalized in the last decade.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe #Gamergate news thread(8424 posts) (8424 posts) 
(8424 posts)