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dragonbeast: And Tims position is weird since Brütal legend basically is everything Anita despises.

But why do i even bother. You don't seem open to the discussion anyway.
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Fever_Discordia: Well, maybe, just maybe Tim feels that Anita's (or anyone else's) right to make videos where they rip any of his games to shreds, potentially citing an entire catalog of points that they feel are 'problematic', or whatever, without fear of crimes being perpetrated against them because of it (and harassment is a crime in itself, let alone the fear of any threats actually being carried out) is a right that's worth fighting and dying for, let alone standing on a stage in front of your industry buddies and doing a lame 'bit' with a sock-puppet about!
And that's totally in keeping with the true spirit of Rock, Metal and anything else interesting you can do with an electric guitar
Thank GOD for me! (and Jim and Tim and Anita and all the little children)
Maybe I understood something wrong since the sentence is quite long,
but did you just imply that #NotYourShield harrassed Tim or that Tim has to fear being harrassed by them when he ridicules them on a stage in front of those business yuppies?
(Which he did without any justification/reason whatsoever btw, they've done nothing to him or anyone.)

Where has he been harrassed? Proof please.
Post edited March 15, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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Fever_Discordia: Well, maybe, just maybe Tim feels that Anita's (or anyone else's) right to make videos where they rip any of his games to shreds, potentially citing an entire catalog of points that they feel are 'problematic', or whatever, without fear of crimes being perpetrated against them because of it (and harassment is a crime in itself, let alone the fear of any threats actually being carried out) is a right that's worth fighting and dying for, let alone standing on a stage in front of your industry buddies and doing a lame 'bit' with a sock-puppet about!
And that's totally in keeping with the true spirit of Rock, Metal and anything else interesting you can do with an electric guitar
Thank GOD for me! (and Jim and Tim and Anita and all the little children)
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Klumpen0815: Maybe I understood something wrong since the sentence is quite long,
but did you just imply that #NotYourShield harrassed Tim or that Tim has to fear being harrassed by them when he ridicules them on a stage in front of those business yuppies?
(Which he did without any justification/reason whatsoever btw, they've done nothing to him or anyone.)

Where has he been harrassed? Proof please.
No, I was giving a reason why Tim would support Anita generally,because that's what was asked
I said some stuff specifically about #NotYourShield back here:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gamergate_news_thread/post1946

I dunno, maybe if i was writing that again now, maybe my stance would have softened SLIGHTLY but, meh, still covered as far as I'm concerned
I agree with the fact that western feminism has lost its way. Seems obvious after you realize unfortunately. Anyhow; I'm not responsible for what my 2nd keyboard says........

''Proof? Yah how much proof does it take to convince a gamergater? One! You know what the problem is? Anti-GG doesn't have ANY proof!''
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OK since you've asked and now you've made me think (damn you) Tim's joke was based on the irony that #NotYourShield is called that because they're TOTALLY GG's shield - the group GG can point at and say 'Look our group is totally legit because we have this group of women and minorities supporting us (or making it clear that they don't support the other side at least)' despite the fact that there were plenty of women who campaigned AGAINST suffrage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_National_Anti-Suffrage_League
or that ISIS can inspire school girls to travel half the globe to join them or the fact that Sarah Palin and Margaret Thatcher are people (or WERE in Maggie's case, thank goodness) so it proves nothing anyway

Thinking about it, the consensus that the sock puppet itself represented #NotYourShield is a huge assumption because it could have just as easily represented the dummy accounts that every GGer seems to think that every Anti-GGer, such as Tim, have to hand in case they need death threats made against them because of some lack of publicity-related emergency, because THAT's not paranoid *rolls eyes in sickeningly Anita-like way*
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Fever_Discordia: OK since you've asked and now you've made me think (damn you) Tim's joke was based on the irony that #NotYourShield is called that because they're TOTALLY GG's shield - the group GG can point at and say 'Look our group is totally legit because we have this group of women and minorities supporting us (or making it clear that they don't support the other side at least)' despite the fact that there were plenty of women who campaigned AGAINST suffrage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_National_Anti-Suffrage_League
or that ISIS can inspire school girls to travel half the globe to join them or the fact that Sarah Palin and Margaret Thatcher are people (or WERE in Maggie's case, thank goodness) so it proves nothing anyway

Thinking about it, the consensus that the sock puppet itself represented #NotYourShield is a huge assumption because it could have just as easily represented the dummy accounts that every GGer seems to think that every Anti-GGer, such as Tim, have to hand in case they need death threats made against them because of some lack of publicity-related emergency, because THAT's not paranoid *rolls eyes in sickeningly Anita-like way*
I think you didn't quite grasp the idea behind #NotYourShield.
Those are people that don't want to be used against their will by some hate movement for which the end always justifies the means. Many of them do support #GG openly out of their own free will and are making clear, that they can make up their own minds and minorities are not supposed to be used (as shields) in the typical "Think about the children!"-way.
People (fem freq, etc...) claiming that they are speaking for others and not only for themselves are either deluded, megalomaniac and without any respect for the groups they are using without even asking or simply manipulative liars without any respect at all.

If they would want to be a shield for the group that didn't force them into this position, I wouldn't see a problem (some of them do), but it's mostly about not being used as a shield by someone/something they don't approve of anyway.
Post edited March 15, 2015 by Klumpen0815
Most people don't even see one of the main problems at hand:
There are very loud people at large who claim to be speakig for all feminists and too many just say "Ok, if they say so." and some feminists think "Oh, so that's what I stand for now, ok, no problem."
While Hoff Summers for example is just saying, that they are only speaking for themselves.
Of course she gets attacked and mentioned as "not a feminist" if she disaggrees with the yuppies and hipsters claiming to be the leaders now.
Leaders of a movement which claims to fight for diversity, is anybody seeing the irony? Anybody at all?
Post edited March 15, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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soxy_lady: snip
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Klumpen0815: There's no need to choose any sides here, people should look at it as objectively as possible and always take the real motives of everyone involved into consideration and especcially how much proof is delivered with every claim and atm the anti-gg side is mostly using PR skills and connections, massive denouncing and lots of claims without any proof whatsoever. This is not a conspiracy theory anymore because it has been proven over and over again.
That feminists are used for this is just as bad as seeing neo-feminists using it for their own morally questionable goals.

Like every attack on the media in the past It has become a clusterfuck that is obviously meant to confuse in order to move the focus away from not so nice facts.
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Elmofongo: Could it be possible the GamerGate topic is going to affect this year's E3?
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Klumpen0815: I'd bet, it's everywhere in this industry, because it's about massive flaws that are nearly in every corner of it by now.
Tim Schafer's stupid comment against #NotYourShield and the reactions of all the business yuppies in front of him are making this quite obvious.
How much are you willing to be Anita is going to make an appearance at E3?

Remember the whole thing with her being a consultant for EA/DICE's Mirror's Edge 2?
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Fever_Discordia: OK since you've asked and now you've made me think (damn you) Tim's joke was based on the irony that #NotYourShield is called that because they're TOTALLY GG's shield
Only if you're operating under the assumption that everyone in GG is white and male and those in NYS aren't a part of it. The point isn't to be a shield. The point is that they are GG every bit as much as the rest of us. It apparently never dawned on you or the others I've seen claim this bit of irony that it'd be ridiculous to say that someone's a shield for themselves.

Want to talk about ironic? How about the side that's constantly complaining about the "agency" of characters in games denying it to a group of real-life women and minorities by assuming that they're being used and just too stupid to see it (see: your Anti-Suffrage League quip) instead of accepting that they can make their own decisions. Good decisions based on facts and evidence and not at all impacted by a room full of plotting evil white men, even. Imagine that.
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Elmofongo: How much are you willing to bet Anita is going to make an appearance at E3?

Remember the whole thing with her being a consultant for EA/DICE's Mirror's Edge 2?
I think she will appear there, which would be quite ironic since in 2010 she said, that she doesn't play video games at all and now she is posing with heaps of games and a controller in her hand for PR clips everywhere to give the false impression she would be a gamer in order to support her agenda which is just dirty and false advertising.

This clip always reminds me of how silly the statement of our own SJW here (not Discordia) is, that all this would have been born inside of the gamer's community and not outside of it, ha!
Post edited March 15, 2015 by Klumpen0815
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Elmofongo: How much are you willing to bet Anita is going to make an appearance at E3?

Remember the whole thing with her being a consultant for EA/DICE's Mirror's Edge 2?
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Klumpen0815: I think she will appear there, which would be quite ironic since in 2010 she said, that she doesn't play video games at all and now she is posing with heaps of games and a controller in her hand for PR clips everywhere to give the false impression whe would be a gamer in order to support her agenda which is just dirty and false advertising.

This clip always reminds me of how silly the statement of our own SJW here (not Discordia) is, that all this would have been born inside of the gamer's community and not outside of it, ha!
Well either she's lying about being a gamer NOW... OR she was lying about not being a gamer THEN *shrugs* dunno 50/50 at best, maybe she was embawassed to admit to being a gamer to that audience?
But it sheds doubt and she definitely lied at SOME point - I'll give you that!
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Fever_Discordia: But it sheds doubt and she definitely lied at SOME point - I'll give you that!
That's just her modus operandi, you never know when she is lying if it serves her PR.

More lies revealed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSoDEA6yw24

I don't like capitalists, I don't like liars and I sure as hell don't like capitalistic liars.
Post edited March 15, 2015 by Klumpen0815
"Actually, it's about ethics in game journalism"

==> So while USA looks more about some feminists VS mra stuff, there has been a mini shitstorm in the French gaming community due to a press tour in Japan for the release of Bloodborne (due in 2 weeks). A photo was taken where various French journos were gathered at a local restaurant:
https://twitter.com/Le_J_A_M/status/576419833916583936

This led to some kind of Doritosgate where one of the chief-editor started a damage-controling thread about "offered" press tours and saying that they have nothing to do with one notorious yellow game journo who was at the same table and don't want to be associated with him (hum, even if they do the same thing in this matter):
http://www.gamekult.com/forum/topic-a-propos-des-voyages-de-presse-825054n.html
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catpower1980: -snip-
Good find, my friend. Great to know that the international folks are also fighting this fight, don't want to put up with these crap standards. France is a strange place because the video game industry and journalism have always been very closely weaved, and I certainly don't want to see the ability to make games stunted there as it is here by these morons.
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Fever_Discordia: OK since you've asked and now you've made me think (damn you) Tim's joke was based on the irony that #NotYourShield is called that because they're TOTALLY GG's shield
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227: Only if you're operating under the assumption that everyone in GG is white and male and those in NYS aren't a part of it. The point isn't to be a shield. The point is that they are GG every bit as much as the rest of us. It apparently never dawned on you or the others I've seen claim this bit of irony that it'd be ridiculous to say that someone's a shield for themselves.

Want to talk about ironic? How about the side that's constantly complaining about the "agency" of characters in games denying it to a group of real-life women and minorities by assuming that they're being used and just too stupid to see it (see: your Anti-Suffrage League quip) instead of accepting that they can make their own decisions. Good decisions based on facts and evidence and not at all impacted by a room full of plotting evil white men, even. Imagine that.
The really ironic thing about #NotYourShield is the fact that if you look a little deeper into SocJus and SJWs in general, the majority of them are white men (certainly on the journalist side). If anything, #NotYourShield just highlighted what is a very obvious truth, that many millennial hipsters suffer from crippling levels of race/class/gender guilt, largely instilled in them by new-age thinkers and progressive types in academia, who are at fault for using text books and class rooms as a pulpit to expand and deliver their political agendas. Once pushed into a crowd-chanting 'we fight for women's rights' it suddenly becomes like professional wrestling where the bad guy has to make fun of the good guy's mom in order to rile up the audience. And at that point saying the wrong thing can get you ostracized, shunned, or in some cases, beaten half to death. A great many people out there are now calling open season on freedom of speech. For some partisans out there it's like garlic to their vampire. They hate it and want it as far away from them as possible.

#NotYourShield just showcases quite clearly the hypocrisy of upper class white liberalism. I'm a white man, but if I wasn't, I wouldn't want those pretentious snobs trying to advocate for me or my beliefs. And it's sad to me to see so many so easily take the bait-and-switch. Opportunists will always try to ride waves of emotional reactions. It can be a very profitable tactic to those observant enough to co-opt the crowd's mood. Preachers and salesmen have been doing it forever.
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tremere110: It is definately political. It's the far left attacking the moderate left while the right swoops in to find new allies among the recently disenfranchised.
Sorry, your plutocracy doesn't even have a 'left', certainly not a 'far left'. What happens within this extremely narrow all right wing political spectrum, or what is described from the lens of that extremely narrow political spectrum, or any kind of infighting within this system, is certainly none of my concern, I'm very sorry.

Individual, international developer, academic, journalist, feminist and consumer stances on diversity in video games are attacked and viewed together as attacks or insults by a single group, nay, a single person, THE social justice warrior, in order to serve as a better reason for running amok. That's the thing that keeps gamergate going, that epic smokescreen.

Pressing a narrow political belief system on elementary motifs in storytelling, which in one form or another have been with us since the ancient Greeks, is gamergate's excuse number one to go to war. Then there's the desperate attempt at finding 'collusion' everywhere. Witch hunt 101.

Yes, I find everyone going with the SJW conspiracy bullshit to be a person devoid of intelligence, or especially vicious, or both.

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Gersen: You really have a very weird and flawed definition of "extreme" and "hate", the new names on your list gets more ridiculous with every new version, now you have even added Adrian Chmielarz to that list too :)
Calling a video game critic out as a "charlatan", as a developer, is extreme, no damn doubt about it. Chmielarz is firmly on an opportunist side of this. But Chmielarz makes games that gamergate people like Davis Aurini hate to the core, calling games that focus 'too much' on storytelling to be acts of parasite SJW, a mockery of the art of gaming. Chmielarz' pandering to gg will bite him in the ass eventually, I am very sure of it.

As to his three part strawman evaluations of video game criticsm, yawn. His basic position is that Sarkeesian says games were bad and essentially unplayable if they contained the damsel trope. Guy didn't pay attention.

Should the day come when GG wants him to bite the dust, make sure to look up the video of his 'holy grail of storytelling' video with that image in which the player is portrayed as a chimp pretending to play with handpuppets that are actually controlled by the game developer. GG gamers love that stuff. They get all nicely insulted by that.
Post edited March 16, 2015 by Vainamoinen