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GameRager: No, I have said before that I try to be somewhat responsible & also I usually denote if something is serious/a joke/fact/opinion with my wording or footnotes so people know.....the rest, as they say, is up to those who read it.
I saw no indication that you were not being serious in your previous post where you (re)called into question the idea of mass graves being dug for corona victims.
Again, I did not mean my initial post as an attack, I just wanted to point out that at times like this, a cavalier attitude towards the truth (muddying the waters, spreading unverified information, etc.) is not really beneficial to society. "Common sense" before posting as well as after.

As far as my knowledge goes, my family is doing ok. They have always been self-sufficient, so it isn't so problematic for them to ride out isolation for a couple of weeks.
I am doing ok as well, but I wish I'd do something more productive than watch movies and shows.
Post edited March 28, 2020 by babark
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babark: I saw no indication that you were not being serious in your previous post where you (re)called into question the idea of mass graves being dug for corona victims.
Please read this bit again and note what I said & how I said it(bolded bits especially):

"Damn.....it seems the rumors of China doing the same thing last month might not be so far off, then, if Iran is also doing it."

The qualifiers in that statement are there to indicate to a reader(if they read slowly and carefully) that I am/was not stating mass graves were fact or anything like that.

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babark: Again, I did not mean my initial post as an attack, I just wanted to point out that at times like this, a cavalier attitude towards the truth (muddying the waters, spreading unverified information, etc.) is not really beneficial to society. "Common sense" before posting as well as after.
No worries.....I get that you likely mean well.....I just am less overly worried about "what ifs", and think responsibility should be equally spread between those reading things & those who write/post things anywhere.

That isn't to say I don't try to do my part to help by not spreading dumb info.....I do....if I post a questionable sources for some reason(or something similar) I always put a footnote in bold/underlined to denote such.

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babark: As far as my knowledge goes, my family is doing ok. They have always been self-sufficient, so it isn't so problematic for them to ride out isolation for a couple of weeks.
So supplies doing well? That's good.

Over here we're(my family) somewhat lucky.....we stocked up on TP before all this(a small amount) and some canned/etc food else we'd likely be using paper towels/etc to wipe by now & running out of food.

I have also been stocking up small amounts of other things like canned foods and such, as they keep longer, and other things here and there, but I have cut back shopping trips so as to not get sick/etc.

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babark: I am doing ok as well, but I wish I'd do something more productive than watch movies and shows.
You ARE doing something productive....you're helping "flatten the curve" and limit infections(to-from you and others). :)
Post edited March 28, 2020 by GameRager
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GameRager: "Damn.....it seems the rumors of China doing the same thing last month might not be so far off, then, if Iran is also doing it."
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GameRager: I just am less overly worried about "what ifs"...
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GameRager: I just am less overly worried about "what ifs"...
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babark:
Less doesn't mean NOT at all......also in that quoted bit I was talking about what ifs regarding people taking what I say the wrong way/in the wrong context/etc, not ALL what ifs in general.
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GameRager: Less doesn't mean NOT at all......also in that quoted bit I was talking about what ifs regarding people taking what I say the wrong way/in the wrong context/etc, not ALL what ifs in general.
So when, in response to someone stating they would use UV light as a form of protection by blasting themselves to decontaminate infectious viruses, and you said "Oh, yeah, but don't shine it in your eyes", what was the "correct context" to take your advice/comments where you basically told the person "Yeah, give yourself skin cancer" (especially doing so right after someone had already said "Don't do that, that's bad for you")?

(UV rays in such doses ARE a statistically proven risk factor and contributor to melanoma)

I am sorry I keep hammering on about this, but all I keep saying is that "Words matter, choose your words carefully, limit the spread of BS and confusion", and all I keep hearing from you is "LOL, IDC, YOLO!"

As an extreme example (EXAMPLE, yes, I'm not calling you a drug dealer), you do realise that drug dealers get way more heavily penalised than drug users? And them saying "Oh, I was just offering a service, it was the responsibility of the customer to know that taking drugs is wrong" is meaningless.
Post edited March 28, 2020 by babark
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babark: I am sorry I keep hammering on about this, but all I keep saying is that "Words matter, choose your words carefully, limit the spread of BS and confusion", and all I keep hearing from you is "LOL, IDC, YOLO!"
Look, if you want to worry about others worrying others that's fine, but please let me/others handle things as we choose to(within reason of course) & let the rest of the world take care of itself.....a few posts here by me or anyone aren't going to cause mass chaos/etc as you seem to be making it to be, and me/others not saying them won't bring about world peace and an end to the pandemic either.

Most adults are mature & intelligent with working brains, so why not let them use them instead of trying to "coddle" everyone like a newborn baby?

(i.e. let people do as they will[unless something you notice is an actual credible problem or danger to someone] and try not to worry as much about what ifs/hypotheticals/etc)
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As for me? I'm going to live my life(albeit at home) & post silly YT videos on this later in a bit, as that calms me/others down & keeps us calm/happy during all this(it also lifts some people's spirits....thus likely improving the outcome of this situation for some people).....and after that, I might play more Deus Ex or Resident Evil.

Why? Because i'm a bit worried about this but i'm not going to act like this is Bubonic Plague 2.0.
Post edited March 28, 2020 by GameRager
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To everyone:
Post edited March 28, 2020 by GameRager
Here you go people, you can all leap on this and say "this proves exactly what I was saying!":

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/03/28/coronavirus_hydroxychloroquine_azithromycin/
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wpegg: Here you go people, you can all leap on this and say "this proves exactly what I was saying!":

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/03/28/coronavirus_hydroxychloroquine_azithromycin/
I just don't tell you all the hype in France aroud Raoult. If you don't love Raoult, if you don't want to give him all the medals you can : you are considered lower than ground by more and more people.

But more important : it's starting to cause problems to tests other treatments : many ill people in France (don't know how it is elsewhere) refuse to be part of the Discovery experiment : as there is only a 1/5 chance to be given chloroquine they refuse (double blind tests).

For those who want to check the Raoult's study :
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996
Post edited March 28, 2020 by francksteel
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francksteel: For those who want to check the Raoult's study :
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996
I am thoroughly shocked this gained so much attention in the first place, without due process. As per the article, a day after they finished the paper, it was sent for peer review, and 3 days later ready for publication. A process that normally takes months. In addition, one of the co-authors of the paper is the editor of the publication journal(!). Gross conflict of interest, that should clearly have been declared.

I think the science illiterate media are hugely to blame in this - they promoted the paper throughout the world so quickly. I guess I can't blame them, everyone desperately wants a cure, but they also want click-bait sensationalist articles. But given even a little bit more time (a week or two), the paper would have been torn to shreds by the scientific community, and got the 'attention' it deserved.
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GameRager: Look, if you want to worry about others worrying others that's fine, but please let me/others handle things as we choose to(within reason of course) & let the rest of the world take care of itself.....a few posts here by me or anyone aren't going to cause mass chaos/etc as you seem to be making it to be, and me/others not saying them won't bring about world peace and an end to the pandemic either.
Any rumor exists solely because of the people spreading it. So I think it's worth considering what ideas you want to contribute to, or not.

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GameRager: Most adults are mature & intelligent with working brains, so why not let them use them instead of trying to "coddle" everyone like a newborn baby?
Pretty much the entire human history shows that humans are prone to act irrationally. You should read up on brain science. It's fun stuff! I can recommend the book You Are Not So Smart
I only know one thing right now... We italian are in a really bad situation and we received a lot of support from countries that usually are not part of our historical alliances. Especially China.
It is true that Italy has taken the first step by sending stocks of masks when the emergency was still only in China, but the way they are helping us and have started to help even the US (where Trump until recently gave him the fault of everything) makes me think that the Chinese people really have a much greater empathy and solidarity than I thought.
On the contrary, countries theoretically our allies part of the European Union (Germany, Holland etc ...) it seems that they are not even willing to act as guarantors for the debt that will necessarily have to be done in the coming months to face the coronavirus crisis.
Eurobonds (which would allow all EU countries to access negative interest rates such as Germany. debt that will still be paid by each country) have been severely hampered, although the proposal is not only Italian (at least 9 countries want them).
I have always been for a united and supportive Europe, I always thought that what the Greek people suffered was unjust (because the governments can be wrong, but the people cannot be brought to starvation if the UE it is really based on principles, and the UE should not only be an economic union, but rather a union based on common principles).
But this time it's not anyone's fault either. A virus that does and will do damage everywhere (even in selfish countries) should unite, not divide.

If countries like Germany don't change their way of thinking, I think future Europe will be different. Personally speaking, I don't want Europe to end, but if countries like Germany continue to think only of themselves I think another Europe will be founded among the countries that believe in stronger solidarity and the selfish countries will be left alone and isolated.
After all, Eurobonds need only be guaranteed by more than one state to guarantee a zero or negative interest rate. If our governments will be aware of that, the common bonds between France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, etc., will have even lower interests than the bonds of Germany alone.

And who knows, maybe in the future an alliance with Russia and China that have proven to be human in this emergency much more than the "democratic" governments of northern Europe, will also be possible.

I specify that I am not accusing the German or other people of the anti-Eurobond blockade. I know that governments often make choices against the citizens themselves and since we are all European citizens, I think many feel close and are irritated by the selfish choices of those who govern.

I hope that no other country should suffer from what Italy is suffering and that an effective vaccine / cure will be found also thanks to the sacrifices made in the most affected countries.
Stay strong, this is the most important moment to save lives. I only thank that our health system is so efficient and public, otherwise I think it would have been an even worse massacre.
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LiefLayer: if countries like Germany continue to think only of themselves...

I specify that I am not accusing the German or other people of the anti-Eurobond blockade.
Germany took over some Italians suffering severely from Covid-19, who would otherwise have inevitably died in Italy...Germany also took in French patients, facing the same fate.

So - Germany seems to live the spirit of the European Union more than some others.
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GameRager: Even if it is debunked it might still be true for some countries....if not now then later....and that kind of thing worries me a bit and depresses me a bit as well. :\
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babark: You realise how meaningless such a statement is (and how harmful it can be in terms of scaremongering)?

Person 1: X is a thing! X happened!
Person 2: That has been debunked. X did not happen.
Person 3 chimes in: Even if it is debunked, it might still be true, if not now, then later.

With that attitude, literally anything is possible, and truth is meaningless, if it is not true now, then it could be later: Terminators among us. Lizard people controlling us, assassins dispatching world leaders with delayed action, undetectable, deathly fart gases, Fluorine in the water turning frogs gay, etc.

Now I don't want this to come off like an attack, so I'll echo a question from someone else earlier in response to the whole "Authoritative soure vs rando on the internet" discussion. Since you say that people should treat authoritative sources and randos on the internet with equal importance, and use "common sense" to figure out which is right, and since at the moment, everyone has time to apply common sense to the current situation unless they're lazy (I paraphrase you), could you outline specifically how someone without a detailed knowledge of biology and medicine (the vast majority of us) would weigh what a rando on the internet said, and what an authoritative source said, and decide who to trust more?
You neglect to mention that "authoritative sources" frequently have vested interests, and that being knowledgeable doesn't preclude lying. Why?
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richlind33: You neglect to mention that "authoritative sources" frequently have vested interests, and that being knowledgeable doesn't preclude lying. Why?
I still don't get your point. What on earth are you arguing about?
Non-authoritative sources also have vested interests.
We shouldn't trust people with knowledge because they may be lying? So what, we should trust idiots because they don't lie?
What on earth are you arguing for? What are you advocating? I don't get it.
I asked you before, but you didn't answer, so I'll ask again:
If you have 2 sources, one is a rando on the internet, and one is a source knowledgeable about the subject matter, and you do not have knowledge on the subject matter, if neither source provides references, and both contradict each other in instructions on how to protect your life, which one will you listen to?