Posted June 03, 2015
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bansama
bansama.com
Registered: Oct 2008
From Japan
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Harteex
New User
Registered: Sep 2011
From Sweden
Posted June 03, 2015
I don't the problem will be as large as you make it out to be, some might ask for a refund but I don't think the big majority will. Especially for the low price you're asking for.
But I guess you'll see.
Also, from the refund page: "Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you."
But I guess you'll see.
Also, from the refund page: "Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you."
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xieliming
KeanesianEconomy
Registered: Jun 2013
From Australia
Posted June 03, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/17efe73c99bb99faafd75f30f3ee3ca960e59dd5388da0c734029921c4cdfd97_avm.jpg)
Steam now offers refunds: http://www.destructoid.com/steam-now-offers-full-refunds-for-any-reason-293176.phtml
Provided you have only owned the game for 2 weeks and have less than 2 hours of playtime. Which sounds fair, right?
Well, currently I make my living off of story-focused games that are under 2 hours. They can be completed in one sitting, easily. So now anyone can purchase one of my games, play it, and return it for a full refund. Effectively meaning that my two games are now free to play, and I'm probably out of a job.
Also Just out of curiousity, what games did you make?
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darkwolf777
Carpe Cervisiam
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted June 03, 2015
One thing I've never understood about the relative rarity of demos, with Steam having "free weekends" where you're gifted a temporary license for a game that you can play if you want, and the license is revoked after ~48 hours or you can choose to buy the game and the license doesn't expire... why hasn't this yet been applied to games, in general? No need for developers to make a separate demo build, just supply a temporary, self-expiring license that expires, say 24 hours after the download completes (or perhaps make it adjustable by the developer, in the case of games that can be completed in a few hours, maybe the "demo license" can be set for 30 minutes or 1-2 hours, depending on overall game length). Then if you like the game you can simply purchase it and not have to download anything else/again, you just get granted a full license.
DRM-free games would still need a demo build though, I'd imagine. Or perhaps the "demo license" can still apply, but the time limited license has DRM applied while it's in effect, and then if you purchase the game the DRM wrapper is removed. Similar system could work for GoG and others, as well.
timppu: Depends.
- Well-known torrent sites dropping like flies, many countries (incl. my country) blocking torrent sites still standing etc. I think the Swedish officials already captured the well-known PBay URLs. So even locating the still standing torrent sites (whatever their URLs are this week) and working around the ISP blocks can be too much hassle for many. I take it you've never heard of usenet, then. Been around a LOT longer than BitTorrent.
DRM-free games would still need a demo build though, I'd imagine. Or perhaps the "demo license" can still apply, but the time limited license has DRM applied while it's in effect, and then if you purchase the game the DRM wrapper is removed. Similar system could work for GoG and others, as well.
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/71d34ed22371b190b9e805eec7e826c76bbedd844982499e939f0631506fdbfd_avm.jpg)
- Well-known torrent sites dropping like flies, many countries (incl. my country) blocking torrent sites still standing etc. I think the Swedish officials already captured the well-known PBay URLs. So even locating the still standing torrent sites (whatever their URLs are this week) and working around the ISP blocks can be too much hassle for many.
![timppu](https://images.gog.com/27a38075b39196b7c723f8e05f687f831432657aed353eb2a8014101f03b855f_forum_avatar.jpg)
timppu
Favorite race: Formula__One
Registered: Jun 2011
From Finland
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catpower1980
Hello World
Registered: May 2009
From Canada
Posted June 03, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/dbb27db81270c41cd8819053382fe0a024d10436fc56d9e754720224e45abbfe_avm.jpg)
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/71d34ed22371b190b9e805eec7e826c76bbedd844982499e939f0631506fdbfd_avm.jpg)
Come to think of it, do most ISPs around the world even carry Usenet newsgroups anymore? I guess you'd have to access them through google or something nowadays?
I'm pretty sure most people nowadays are even less aware of Usenet groups...
LOL at the BBS, I remember those days :o)
For some throwback, maybe you should play "Digital : A Love Story", that was quite a well-written game with some good nostalgia moments:
http://scoutshonour.com/digital/
As for Usenet access, my previous provider still had Usenet support (that was maybe 6-7 years ago) but with some binaries disabled. Nowadays, you have to pay some kind of service subscription to 3rd party websites like giganews or usenet.nl
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markrichardb
Games Writer
Registered: Apr 2012
From United Kingdom
Posted June 03, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_nyM3f_gQ
Boogie brings this up and I echo his words. I can’t recall anyone I know who would wrestle Valve’s support system for a few bucks after going in with the intention of getting a free play experience (why wouldn’t they just pirate it rather than have that history on their account and add risk to their library?). This should mainly affect big budget publishers pushing out shoddy broken games.
But hey, this is your livelihood we’re talking about here so I understand the concern!
Boogie brings this up and I echo his words. I can’t recall anyone I know who would wrestle Valve’s support system for a few bucks after going in with the intention of getting a free play experience (why wouldn’t they just pirate it rather than have that history on their account and add risk to their library?). This should mainly affect big budget publishers pushing out shoddy broken games.
But hey, this is your livelihood we’re talking about here so I understand the concern!
Post edited June 03, 2015 by markrichardb
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clarry
New User
Registered: Feb 2014
From Other
Posted June 03, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/17efe73c99bb99faafd75f30f3ee3ca960e59dd5388da0c734029921c4cdfd97_avm.jpg)
I say this as someone who was still a student (a week ago) and now unemployed. I've had to limit my daily spending (on food, etc.) to less than $3 for some time now... and that money comes out of student loans.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by clarry
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Starmaker
go Clarice!
Registered: Sep 2010
From Russian Federation
Posted June 03, 2015
That's what people were doing (perhaps still do, I went DRM-free before quitting mobile altogether) with Android apps: download, back up, apply for a refund, restore from backup.
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darkwolf777
Carpe Cervisiam
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted June 03, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/71d34ed22371b190b9e805eec7e826c76bbedd844982499e939f0631506fdbfd_avm.jpg)
Come to think of it, do most ISPs around the world even carry Usenet newsgroups anymore?
I'm pretty sure most people nowadays are even less aware of Usenet groups...
Which is one reason they're so attractive to pirates and other ne'er-do-wells because all the attention is on BitTorrent and eMule and Kazaa and Napster and all the previous file sharing services that have come and gone.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by darkwolf777
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jefequeso
New User
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted June 03, 2015
UPDATE: I asked my contact guy at Valve about the refund policy, and he told me that while the policy might make some devs nervous, they are well aware of the possible loopholes and know how they will be managing them. So that makes me feel a lot better.
Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by jefequeso
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Hammercorps
New User
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted June 04, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/17efe73c99bb99faafd75f30f3ee3ca960e59dd5388da0c734029921c4cdfd97_avm.jpg)
Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
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Swonker
Spooky
Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Posted June 04, 2015
If the refund policy worries you, you either have a lack of faith in your products or a lack of faith in humanity; possibly both.
If a customer likes your game and isn't a dick, he won't go for a refund.
If a customer likes your game and isn't a dick, he won't go for a refund.
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jefequeso
New User
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted June 04, 2015
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/17efe73c99bb99faafd75f30f3ee3ca960e59dd5388da0c734029921c4cdfd97_avm.jpg)
Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
![avatar](http://images.gog.com/544aa60fe7de73bc3c706d505dd047f17432e36d9872b8b92b4a8fa5a80656d1_avm.jpg)
![Hammercorps](https://images.gog.com/544aa60fe7de73bc3c706d505dd047f17432e36d9872b8b92b4a8fa5a80656d1_avm.jpg)
Hammercorps
New User
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States