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General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 03, 2015
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jefequeso: Snip
In case no one has pointed it out, Valve do state "nearly any purchase". Surely you should be talking to your contact at Valve and asking them how this pertains to games having a length of less than 2 hours.
Posted June 03, 2015
I don't the problem will be as large as you make it out to be, some might ask for a refund but I don't think the big majority will. Especially for the low price you're asking for.
But I guess you'll see.

Also, from the refund page: "Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you."
Posted June 03, 2015
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jefequeso: Uh oh.

Steam now offers refunds: http://www.destructoid.com/steam-now-offers-full-refunds-for-any-reason-293176.phtml

Provided you have only owned the game for 2 weeks and have less than 2 hours of playtime. Which sounds fair, right?

Well, currently I make my living off of story-focused games that are under 2 hours. They can be completed in one sitting, easily. So now anyone can purchase one of my games, play it, and return it for a full refund. Effectively meaning that my two games are now free to play, and I'm probably out of a job.
Can you bundle your games as single package perhaps?
Also Just out of curiousity, what games did you make?
Posted June 03, 2015
One thing I've never understood about the relative rarity of demos, with Steam having "free weekends" where you're gifted a temporary license for a game that you can play if you want, and the license is revoked after ~48 hours or you can choose to buy the game and the license doesn't expire... why hasn't this yet been applied to games, in general? No need for developers to make a separate demo build, just supply a temporary, self-expiring license that expires, say 24 hours after the download completes (or perhaps make it adjustable by the developer, in the case of games that can be completed in a few hours, maybe the "demo license" can be set for 30 minutes or 1-2 hours, depending on overall game length). Then if you like the game you can simply purchase it and not have to download anything else/again, you just get granted a full license.

DRM-free games would still need a demo build though, I'd imagine. Or perhaps the "demo license" can still apply, but the time limited license has DRM applied while it's in effect, and then if you purchase the game the DRM wrapper is removed. Similar system could work for GoG and others, as well.

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timppu: Depends.

- Well-known torrent sites dropping like flies, many countries (incl. my country) blocking torrent sites still standing etc. I think the Swedish officials already captured the well-known PBay URLs. So even locating the still standing torrent sites (whatever their URLs are this week) and working around the ISP blocks can be too much hassle for many.
I take it you've never heard of usenet, then. Been around a LOT longer than BitTorrent.
Posted June 03, 2015
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darkwolf777: I take it you've never heard of usenet, then. Been around a LOT longer than BitTorrent.
Yes I am aware of Usenet binary groups, but I am surprised someone would still use them. :) Nowadays, they are probably the worst and most inefficient and cumbersome way to obtain software. What next, BBSes where you call with an analog modem? FidoNet, here I come?

Come to think of it, do most ISPs around the world even carry Usenet newsgroups anymore? I guess you'd have to access them through google or something nowadays?

I'm pretty sure most people nowadays are even less aware of Usenet groups...
Posted June 03, 2015
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darkwolf777: I take it you've never heard of usenet, then. Been around a LOT longer than BitTorrent.
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timppu: Yes I am aware of Usenet binary groups, but I am surprised someone would still use them. :) Nowadays, they are probably the worst and most inefficient and cumbersome way to obtain software. What next, BBSes where you call with an analog modem? FidoNet, here I come?

Come to think of it, do most ISPs around the world even carry Usenet newsgroups anymore? I guess you'd have to access them through google or something nowadays?

I'm pretty sure most people nowadays are even less aware of Usenet groups...
It's good to use as a discovery tool for niche things like new-age/world music for example.

LOL at the BBS, I remember those days :o)
For some throwback, maybe you should play "Digital : A Love Story", that was quite a well-written game with some good nostalgia moments:
http://scoutshonour.com/digital/

As for Usenet access, my previous provider still had Usenet support (that was maybe 6-7 years ago) but with some binaries disabled. Nowadays, you have to pay some kind of service subscription to 3rd party websites like giganews or usenet.nl
Posted June 03, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_nyM3f_gQ

Boogie brings this up and I echo his words. I can’t recall anyone I know who would wrestle Valve’s support system for a few bucks after going in with the intention of getting a free play experience (why wouldn’t they just pirate it rather than have that history on their account and add risk to their library?). This should mainly affect big budget publishers pushing out shoddy broken games.

But hey, this is your livelihood we’re talking about here so I understand the concern!
Post edited June 03, 2015 by markrichardb
Posted June 03, 2015
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jefequeso: No, but the vast majority of people who are going to be buying games live in countries where $3 is basically pocket change.
What country you live in is completely irrelevant though, if you have little or no money.

I say this as someone who was still a student (a week ago) and now unemployed. I've had to limit my daily spending (on food, etc.) to less than $3 for some time now... and that money comes out of student loans.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by clarry
Posted June 03, 2015
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Aningan: Surely it would be simpler to pirate it directly.
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SirPrimalform: Don't underestimate people's desire to somehow feel justified. They will take satisfaction in the exploitation of the loophole.
That's what people were doing (perhaps still do, I went DRM-free before quitting mobile altogether) with Android apps: download, back up, apply for a refund, restore from backup.
Posted June 03, 2015
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timppu: Yes I am aware of Usenet binary groups, but I am surprised someone would still use them. :) Nowadays, they are probably the worst and most inefficient and cumbersome way to obtain software.
They're also the least tracked, and it's much more difficult to pinpoint an individual when their IP isn't part of a swarm of IPs ready for the harvesting like with BitTorrent.

Come to think of it, do most ISPs around the world even carry Usenet newsgroups anymore?
Around the world? I don't know, but in the US, yes. And there are usenet services independent of your ISP that you can use as well, usually with paid and free levels, the paid levels generally offering far longer retention of threads.

I'm pretty sure most people nowadays are even less aware of Usenet groups...
Of that I have no doubt. Probably not too many still aware of IRC, as well.

Which is one reason they're so attractive to pirates and other ne'er-do-wells because all the attention is on BitTorrent and eMule and Kazaa and Napster and all the previous file sharing services that have come and gone.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by darkwolf777
Posted June 03, 2015
UPDATE: I asked my contact guy at Valve about the refund policy, and he told me that while the policy might make some devs nervous, they are well aware of the possible loopholes and know how they will be managing them. So that makes me feel a lot better.

Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D

EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
Post edited June 03, 2015 by jefequeso
Posted June 04, 2015
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jefequeso: UPDATE: I asked my contact guy at Valve about the refund policy, and he told me that while the policy might make some devs nervous, they are well aware of the possible loopholes and know how they will be managing them. So that makes me feel a lot better.

Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D

EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
You're the creator of The Moon Sliver, right? I read your blog, and I'm planning on picking it up at some point. It looks very intriguing.
Posted June 04, 2015
If the refund policy worries you, you either have a lack of faith in your products or a lack of faith in humanity; possibly both.

If a customer likes your game and isn't a dick, he won't go for a refund.
Posted June 04, 2015
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jefequeso: UPDATE: I asked my contact guy at Valve about the refund policy, and he told me that while the policy might make some devs nervous, they are well aware of the possible loopholes and know how they will be managing them. So that makes me feel a lot better.

Also, funnily enough, my sales today are actually better than they have been :D

EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, sales being up today could just as easily be a bad thing, too, if that data doesn't accurately reflect refunds. Still, I'll count it as a good thing until proven otherwise.
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Hammercorps: You're the creator of The Moon Sliver, right? I read your blog, and I'm planning on picking it up at some point. It looks very intriguing.
Yup, that's me :)
Posted June 04, 2015
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Hammercorps: You're the creator of The Moon Sliver, right? I read your blog, and I'm planning on picking it up at some point. It looks very intriguing.
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jefequeso: Yup, that's me :)
Love your blog, and your reviews. :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)