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General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 08, 2015
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NoNewTaleToTell: How does the refund policy affect games with trading cards? If someone buys a cheap game to harvest the cards and then gets a refund, does Steam take back what they've made from the trading cards, and/or remove unsold trading cards from their inventory?

It might be a decent deterrent if they said "okay you've made $1 off of trading cards from this game, so we're removing $1 from the refund" or something like that. At the very least that might stop the card harvesters.
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Retsopmi: You can't earn all the card in under 2 hours for a game. Or you shouldn't be able to. Most games, to earn all the drops, take at least 10+ hours.
Actually I harvested a bunch of cards on Saturday/Sunday, of five games all of them dropped all of their cards (three cards per game) in under two hours.
Posted June 08, 2015
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jefequeso: It depends on the game. The developer has control over how often they drop.
Also watch this and implement achievements ;-) Remember: Every single user of Steam has the option of disabling achievement popups, so when people think they're distracting, they just turn them off. You said you design your games to be played multiple times when player wants to fully understand them - find a way to reflect this within mechanics of the game itself and tie achievements to these subsequent playtroughs. Make sure to tell players how important replaying is. Make a game out of it.
Posted June 08, 2015
What's the big deal here? If you don't like the Steam model, don't use it. It's pretty simple actually.

Look towards others in the entertainment industry that have done the same. For example, Louis C.K. - he didn't like having his creativity changed by content providers so he started distributing his own content. He's done very well using that model.

I make a point to purchase only DRM free games when I can. That's why I support GOG and others like it. If there is a game I want that is offered outside of steam and DRM free, I buy it through that channel instead.

Steam isn't the only option.


http://www.alectefertiller.com/2012/01/louis-c-k-and-online-distribution/
http://www.fastcocreate.com/1680492/can-the-louis-ck-distribution-strategy-work-for-the-everyman-comic
Posted June 08, 2015
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Retsopmi: You can't earn all the card in under 2 hours for a game. Or you shouldn't be able to. Most games, to earn all the drops, take at least 10+ hours.
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NoNewTaleToTell: Actually I harvested a bunch of cards on Saturday/Sunday, of five games all of them dropped all of their cards (three cards per game) in under two hours.
Which five games? The other guy said devs can set the limit. If that's the case, then perhaps those games have the limit set low or are shorter games in general?
Posted June 08, 2015
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jefequeso: It depends on the game. The developer has control over how often they drop.
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Fenixp: Also watch this and implement achievements ;-) Remember: Every single user of Steam has the option of disabling achievement popups, so when people think they're distracting, they just turn them off. You said you design your games to be played multiple times when player wants to fully understand them - find a way to reflect this within mechanics of the game itself and tie achievements to these subsequent playtroughs. Make sure to tell players how important replaying is. Make a game out of it.
Yeah, that seems like good advice.

(I may wait to implement them, though. For secret reasons :D)
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skubberson: Steam isn't the only option.
Well, the sad reality of the industry is that it's the only option if you don't have millions to spend on marketing and want to make money. It's not even a contest, really.

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NoNewTaleToTell: Actually I harvested a bunch of cards on Saturday/Sunday, of five games all of them dropped all of their cards (three cards per game) in under two hours.
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Retsopmi: Which five games? The other guy said devs can set the limit. If that's the case, then perhaps those games have the limit set low or are shorter games in general?
Trust me, we can :P

I just upped the drop rate for one of my games yesterday.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by jefequeso
Posted June 08, 2015
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skubberson: What's the big deal here? If you don't like the Steam model, don't use it. It's pretty simple actually.
+1
Posted June 08, 2015
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NoNewTaleToTell: Actually I harvested a bunch of cards on Saturday/Sunday, of five games all of them dropped all of their cards (three cards per game) in under two hours.
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Retsopmi: Which five games? The other guy said devs can set the limit. If that's the case, then perhaps those games have the limit set low or are shorter games in general?
500 Years Act 1
6180 The Moon
Gunworld
Revenge: Rhobar's Myth
Yelaxot

All indie games. Honestly most indie games drop their trading cards at around the same rate in my experience, if they only have three cards. AAA games can definitely stretch it out, but they usually have four plus trading cards to unlock.
Posted June 08, 2015
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Digital_CHE: I played The Moon Sliver... But I didn't understand the ending...

I think "The Playfire rewards" is a good idea (but it was bad implemented)... You can give a reward for playing the game for more than two hours.
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jefequeso: Yeah, I know... I just really don't like the idea of achivements in my games. I feel like they would really detract from the experience.

Although I suppose having just one for playing for more than 2 hours wouldn't be too bad...
I wasn't talking about Steam Achievement... I was talking about Playfire Rewards; A 10cents Reward for " Play this game for 2 hours or more"...

I think Steam achievements ruin the gameplay experience (at least the first gameplay)
But Achievements are a good motive for a second gameplay... ( I played Metro 2033 about 6 times, not only for the steam achievements, It was just because I really like that game).. I purchased Metro 2033 in 2012 after trying the "Jack Sparrow edition" a couple of years before.

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jefequeso: To be perfectly honest, I've never been a believer in the "pay for it if it deserves being paid for" mentality of a lot of people on here. I believe that you pay for the privilage of experiencing a game. Whether it's good or bad at the end is irrelevant, because you still got the experience. You got the product, the producer deserves the money. Refunds, in my opinion, should be reserved for extreme cases where the game in question is legitimately broken, simply won't run on your computer, or was somehow falsely advertised. If you purchase the game, play it, and don't like it... well frankly, you paid for the opportunity to play it. IMO, you don't deserve a refund.

I realize that's an unpopular opinion, and perhaps not the most consumer-favoring philosophy... but in this day and age, with the plethora of reviews, first impressions, and Let's Plays at the consumer's disposal, I think it's actually a very fair one.
Well, I do believe in the "pay for it if it deserves being paid for", thats why I like and I want to play DEMOs first (Like I did in the 90's with Duke Nukem 3D, Jedi knight: Dark forces 2, Hexen, Heretic, Doom...etc)

If I like the DEMO, I will buy the game.. Example: I bought Bastion because I liked the DEMO... I bought Betrayer, because I liked the DEMO.. I bought Woolfe — The Red Hood Diaries, because of the DEMO... I can give You a LOT of examples, since de 90's to the present time..

In another topic, what are You doing now for to conquer the Tri State area?
Post edited June 08, 2015 by Digital_CHE
Posted June 08, 2015
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Pyron: Holy crap. This doesn't look good:
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/indie-developers-report-steam-refund-abuse-from-pc-gamers-show-graphs-to-back-their-claims/
I would deduct from this that the new refund policy is good for long, popular games and bad for short games. The best solution would be to not force this upon the publishers but let them decide for themselves whether they want it or not.
Posted June 08, 2015
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Digital_CHE: In another topic, what are You doing now for to conquer the Tri State area?
BEHOLD! THE CARPET-INATOR!!!

It will turn all carpet patterns in the Tri State Area to have my face on them!
Posted June 08, 2015
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Digital_CHE: In another topic, what are You doing now for to conquer the Tri State area?
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jefequeso: BEHOLD! THE CARPET-INATOR!!!

It will turn all carpet patterns in the Tri State Area to have my face on them!
Silly jefe, carpet is for munching. :p
Posted June 08, 2015
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skubberson: What's the big deal here? If you don't like the Steam model, don't use it. It's pretty simple actually. ...
I guess you forgot to think about the situation of the publishers. They cannot just boycott Steam, it would take away a dominant portion of their consumer base. So they have to comply with this even if they do not like it. All in all: it's unfortunately not that simple.

I, on the other hand, boycott Steam very successfully, but still I think they made a nice move for big AAA games (and a bad ass move for small indie games) here. A manually selectable trial period (by the publisher) implemented by Steam would actually be a good example of what DRM could do for the customer. Unfortunately Steam decided to go the dumb way and force it on all their publishers. As usual.
Posted June 08, 2015
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jefequeso:
This should interest you:
"So here is what seems to be happening: People are refunding games they bought in a sale which they have never played."
https://twitter.com/squidinabox/status/607958863237644288
Posted June 08, 2015
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jefequeso:
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Sachys: This should interest you:
"So here is what seems to be happening: People are refunding games they bought in a sale which they have never played."
https://twitter.com/squidinabox/status/607958863237644288
Fair enough.
Posted June 08, 2015
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jefequeso:
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Sachys: This should interest you:
"So here is what seems to be happening: People are refunding games they bought in a sale which they have never played."
https://twitter.com/squidinabox/status/607958863237644288
EDIT: Never mind, I'm being stupid. That's what comes from drinking at 1 PM.
Post edited June 08, 2015 by jefequeso
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionSteam now offers refunds, and I'm out of a job(472 posts)(472 posts)
(472 posts)