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fishbaits: Auto aim to me, is like getting whatever it is in Clicker Heroes, that means you can run the game & go do something else & not even have to be there to play it ;p
You do know that older FPSs were as much (or more) about skillful movement as precise aim, right?
I think games like Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and (from what I hear) Fallout 3 have something resembling this. The difference is that, instead of being an automatic hit, the game generates a random number, compares it to a value based on your character's stat, and uses that to determine whether the attack hits. It makes the game feel more RPG-ish and less actiony.

In other words, this sort of feature can be used in different types of games and can feel quite different, depending on how other aspects of the game work.
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fishbaits: Auto aim to me, is like getting whatever it is in Clicker Heroes, that means you can run the game & go do something else & not even have to be there to play it ;p
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jefequeso: You do know that older FPSs were as much (or more) about skillful movement as precise aim, right?
Sure, it's just that you can't claim precise aim matters when you have auto aim.
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jefequeso: You do know that older FPSs were as much (or more) about skillful movement as precise aim, right?
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hyperagathon: Sure, it's just that you can't claim precise aim matters when you have auto aim.
Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
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hyperagathon: Sure, it's just that you can't claim precise aim matters when you have auto aim.
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jefequeso: Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
That sounds like we have different granularities in mind - I don't care about headshots from the other side of the level, I mean if I shot a rocket to the left, it should go there instead of correcting me. After all, what if I wanted to miss? :)
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hyperagathon: Sure, it's just that you can't claim precise aim matters when you have auto aim.
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jefequeso: Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
I thought those old FPSs only had vertical auto-aim, and that was only because they were designed without mouselook.
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jefequeso: Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
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Wishbone: I thought those old FPSs only had vertical auto-aim, and that was only because they were designed without mouselook.
I think most Doom-era ones had some horizontal auto aim as well, but infinite vertical autoaim. At least that's how Doom and Quake work.
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nightcraw1er.488: Stick autorun on and you don't even need to be present...
Seriously autoaim is naff in fps, it can be ok in third person combat, but mainly no.
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jefequeso: Why not?
Why bother at all then, just watch a movie, or watch someone else play it on Ulube - oh that's already a thing.
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jefequeso: Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
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hyperagathon: That sounds like we have different granularities in mind - I don't care about headshots from the other side of the level, I mean if I shot a rocket to the left, it should go there instead of correcting me. After all, what if I wanted to miss? :)
You're right, Rockets/projectiles are kind of a different case since you'll have situations where you don't actually want to hit what you're aiming at.

Actually, what I'm doing in my game is autoaim when you're "hipfiring," and you can hold the mouse button to zoom in and disable autoaim for precise shots. I had autoaim disabled for rockets for awhile but it really didn't feel right without a crosshair.
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jefequeso: Why not?
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nightcraw1er.488: Why bother at all then, just watch a movie, or watch someone else play it on Ulube - oh that's already a thing.
Because we're talking about games where the focus is on skillful movement, level navigation, resource management, and strategy rather than aim.

I mean, if you can start up Doom and finish it without actually playing, more power to you.
Post edited January 21, 2016 by jefequeso
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jefequeso: I had autoaim disabled for rockets for awhile but it really didn't feel right without a crosshair.
So why not bring it back? :) But seriously, I understand your reasoning for removing it, it just never bothered me. Unlike auto aim. Perhaps an option to turn it on/off, just like in those older titles? How far along are you now with the game? Last time it was a test level and weapons, plus an enemy you didn't showcase, if I remember correctly.
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hyperagathon: That sounds like we have different granularities in mind - I don't care about headshots from the other side of the level, I mean if I shot a rocket to the left, it should go there instead of correcting me. After all, what if I wanted to miss? :)
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jefequeso: You're right, Rockets/projectiles are kind of a different case since you'll have situations where you don't actually want to hit what you're aiming at.

Actually, what I'm doing in my game is autoaim when you're "hipfiring," and you can hold the mouse button to zoom in and disable autoaim for precise shots. I had autoaim disabled for rockets for awhile but it really didn't feel right without a crosshair.
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nightcraw1er.488: Why bother at all then, just watch a movie, or watch someone else play it on Ulube - oh that's already a thing.
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jefequeso: Because we're talking about games where the focus is on skillful movement, level navigation, resource management, and strategy rather than aim.

I mean, if you can start up Doom and finish it without actually playing, more power to you.
But as you say, things like rockets, grenades, etc., basically all weapons that do splash damage, are a special case. In order to utilize them optimally, you need to be able to not aim them directly at a specific enemy.
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jefequeso: You're right, Rockets/projectiles are kind of a different case since you'll have situations where you don't actually want to hit what you're aiming at.

Actually, what I'm doing in my game is autoaim when you're "hipfiring," and you can hold the mouse button to zoom in and disable autoaim for precise shots. I had autoaim disabled for rockets for awhile but it really didn't feel right without a crosshair.

Because we're talking about games where the focus is on skillful movement, level navigation, resource management, and strategy rather than aim.

I mean, if you can start up Doom and finish it without actually playing, more power to you.
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Wishbone: But as you say, things like rockets, grenades, etc., basically all weapons that do splash damage, are a special case. In order to utilize them optimally, you need to be able to not aim them directly at a specific enemy.
Depends on the rocket launcher, actually. Nowadays you use them mostly for the splash damage, but a lot of older rocket launchers were more like powerful cannons with added spalsh damage (especially in Quake).

But yeah, you do kind of need the ability to properly aim projectiles. The "zoom for precise aim" thing I have right now feels good so far, we'll have to see how it works once I actually start making levels.
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jefequeso: I had autoaim disabled for rockets for awhile but it really didn't feel right without a crosshair.
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hyperagathon: So why not bring it back? :) But seriously, I understand your reasoning for removing it, it just never bothered me. Unlike auto aim. Perhaps an option to turn it on/off, just like in those older titles? How far along are you now with the game? Last time it was a test level and weapons, plus an enemy you didn't showcase, if I remember correctly.
Most systems are implemented, and I have 4 enemy behaviors. Only one enemy asset and no levels yet, though. Still a lot to do.
Post edited January 21, 2016 by jefequeso
Have you thought about getting rid of "Iron sights" completely? they feel a bit out of place in an old school shooter.
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dtgreene: I think games like Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and (from what I hear) Fallout 3 have something resembling this. The difference is that, instead of being an automatic hit, the game generates a random number, compares it to a value based on your character's stat, and uses that to determine whether the attack hits. It makes the game feel more RPG-ish and less actiony.

In other words, this sort of feature can be used in different types of games and can feel quite different, depending on how other aspects of the game work.
The first Hidden and Dangerous game had something like that. The higher a character's accuracy, the more autoaim they had. A weird feature in a weird game :)
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WBGhiro: Have you thought about getting rid of "Iron sights" completely? they feel a bit out of place in an old school shooter.
Yeah, I really don't want to have "iron sights," per se, in my game. The zoom button doesn't actually improve your accuracy at all, it just zooms in and disables autoaim (and gives you a crosshair. So it's a very situational thing, and the game is much more focused on hip firing :)

In fact, most of the time I've found that it's a detriment rather than a help.
Post edited January 21, 2016 by jefequeso
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fishbaits: Auto aim to me, is like getting whatever it is in Clicker Heroes, that means you can run the game & go do something else & not even have to be there to play it ;p
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jefequeso: You do know that older FPSs were as much (or more) about skillful movement as precise aim, right?
Guess I`m one of those stubborn ones that wants full control hehee
Skillful movement is one thing, but pulling off both? Now there`s a challenge I like.
Hence I used to play only on the hard mode BF3 servers (yeah, I know....skillful & BF3 in same sentence ;p ) & once they died & normal was only available, I quit.

When I first played Half Life, I knew something was off. Same for Half Life2. It wasn`t until I dug around in the .Ini files & their like, that I saw the game had aim assist. No wonder it was far too easy ;)

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jefequeso: Well, in most older FPSs, precise aim DIDN'T matter.
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hyperagathon: That sounds like we have different granularities in mind - I don't care about headshots from the other side of the level, I mean if I shot a rocket to the left, it should go there instead of correcting me. After all, what if I wanted to miss? :)
Also ^this.
In some games there are barrels of explosives, if I saw someone near one of those it is much more satisfying watching their corpse fly through the air. Like in Magicka Wizard Wars :D

It`s also like the old "console players v computer players. Even aim assist doesn`t help there >;)
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/713/article/microsoft-aborted-cross-platform-online-gaming-project/

Although that is also down to controller v m/kb hehe