I'm saying Trent and I are F, yes.
ZFR? Well, that's up for you to decide. He's not Hitler, but he could be fascist or he could be liberal.

But ZFR being F would mean that trent is H and SPF and supplementscene are liberal and we might actually win.

Is it possible?

No - why would ZFR have twice failed to nominate Trent as chancellor for the win? I'm sure he could have.

Oh. I see. If ZFR was L then that's the second L out of the game.

So if ZFR's F then it's safe for me to vote yes to SirP/supplementscene.

If ZFR's L then the only chance is to vote against the Fs (without knowing actually what it is they're voting for) three times in a row, and have all the other Ls vote with me, without knowing what it is they need to vote against or that they can trust me. Unless blotunga was F.

Is THAT possible?

Lifthrasil argued to eliminate me, but said that blotunga would be alright if not Joe. ZFR directly asked for his opinion, it seems like unnecessary risk.


I think we lost.

I see it now. I was optimistically imagining that he had taken my side in the Lifthrasil/Joe conflict and was guessing that ZFR was H-bomb.

I'm still hoping that he'll come back and make it all better.

OK re-read SPF government. I think SPF is Liberal. SPF declared he drew LLF and passed Lift LF in order to test him.

I don't think Hitler or regular Fascist would admit they drew LLF because it means they couldn't do anything other than pass Liberal policy. They'd claim LFF to say LAMIST I had a choice of passing Fascist policy yet I didn't. Regular Fascist would probably also pass LL in order to not confirm the other Liberal player.

SPF voted against Lift and Blotungas government I asked why to which he answered:

"I suspect Blotunga of being fascist. I'm not also especially convinced about Pooka being liberal and thus I find his investigation result makes him look worse in my eyes rather than Blotunga better."

So he is either suspicious of Confirmed Fascist Pooka early or distancing? I think SPF is Liberal.

Confirmed Liberal ZFR stated on SPF: I have metagame reasons to believe he's Liberal, but I'm not taking the risk.

SPF also scumread Joe numerous times.

For me it's goto SPFs Presidency or Lifts Presidency to hopefully pass our 5th L.

Note Trent stearing me out of government. So I can't be Hitler or Fascist.

Trent also voted against my Presidency and accused me of being Scum on Day 1.

I've got two pointed questions:

1 Why would Trent say this? -

2 Why didn't Trent eliminate Lifthrasil?

Presumably because he felt it was so transparently fascist that he didn't see any point in trying to conceal it further.

And why name Pooka and Joe?


With regard to the second question - is there any particular reason why he'd choose ZFR over Lifthrasil? Lifthrasil's the one that was to be elected president by ZFR's plan. ZFR had even suggested having someone-who-wasn't-ZFR as chancellor if Lifthrasil suspected him of being H.

If I had just been in government with ZFR I would have shot Lift instead. I didn’t want a confirmed Liberal in the next government.

Because I'm term-locked now and ZFR wasn't.

Other question: what are you trying to achieve? You can't sow any doubt in any Liberal about the alignment of Pooka and trent. So why try?

So you're implying that Trent is Lift's scumbuddy and this is why he didn't kill Lift? But ZFR isn't term locked, where as Lift is. The only thing that doesn't sit well with me is that Trent doesn't accuse ZFR/Lift of being Fascist, which seems like the best move as it blocks Lift from government. So maybe you're right but you're the one who knew Blotunga wasn't Hitler before Zeo told us. Only a fascist could know that and I think it was a slip on your part.

I really don't believe you're Liberal because yet again you've made another post twisting Lift's words below. In the very unlikely event you are Liberal it must mean SPF is the only president you can consider. I'm in 2 minds whether I'm going to go with SPFs plan myself as Lift seems a better bet for me.

You nearly fooled me a few times Joe and you may yet win but I just hope we have 5 Liberals to stop that

I re-read this. Lift in his post stressed the importance of shooting a confirmed Liberal, stating we would be weakened otherwise. He had a very strong preference for you. He wasn't pushing for Blotunga and did say it was a risk. He said he'd be fine with either Blotunga or RTSCV if we're aiming for Hitler but said he preferred a confirmed Fascist. This is how a Liberal would play it Joe.

ZFR did make a mistake not going for a confirmed Liberal but hopefully we got a fascist. Blotunga did accuse Scene, ZFR and RTCSV as plotting against him at this stage. And I know 2 of those are Liberal and I know RTSCV told the truth about drawing FFF

Because I understood what Trent's doing: Trying to make it look like Pooka and Trent and Joe are all one team.

I'm not trying to argue that Pooka and Trent are liberal. At first I was until I understood what they were getting at.


What would ZFR be saying if he were here now?

He'd be saying "why are we even considering an SPF-supplementscene government? Skip to Lifthrasil as president.

Incidentally I wonder if he'd be reconsidering Joe's alignment once the Trent-is-not-vanilla-F-because-he-picked-Liberal-Lifthrasil-for-second-government argument turned out to be wrong. Doubt it. :p


So, with that in mind Lifthrasil should have come to mind as an execution target. No? ZFR proposed Lifthrasil-supplementscene as an alternative to the Lifthrasil-ZFR government.


I was about to ask you both "considering that you both say you trust Lifthrasil but aren't sure you can trust each other what the hell are you doing going through with the government you've proposed?"

But I see how supplementscene's just said he might consider going to a Lifthrasil-Supplmentscene government.

How would you feel about that SirP?


^ yeah, that's what I said too "blotunga would be alright if not Joe" = "Lift had a strong preference for Joe, but he'd be fine with either blotunga or rtcvb."

No mistakes, no twisting.


You're right. The only real chance I have is that neither of you are F, and that blotunga was, which isn't impossible, but then why would Trent have done what he did? The other chance I have is the 2/8 chance if I can convince you/SirP, rtcvb, and flubbucket to vote no on the next three governments. Which is no chance at all.

2 negligible chances. I like those odds.

Suggesting a possible 4-4 and the game's over due to loss of the majority vote.

But i'm on the fence on that and i'm sure it's still 5-3. Have to see in the next set of governments.



So, my new strategy starting now: Vote no on any combination using Joe, Pooka and trent.

Remember starting now: Veto power if FFF happens. Probably need clarification with Zeo. I'm certain veto request will happen in PM, and then it's posted in the post.