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Zimerius: So i start playing for maybe the first 10 hours before i become utterly dulled. Then in a couple of months i'll pick up the story and see how far i manage then.
There are games where I tend to do that, but I uninstall them for the months I am not going to play them anyway. Mostly to avoid having a cluttered list of games when I want to chose one.
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Zimerius: So i start playing for maybe the first 10 hours before i become utterly dulled. Then in a couple of months i'll pick up the story and see how far i manage then.
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vv221: There are games where I tend to do that, but I uninstall them for the months I am not going to play them anyway. Mostly to avoid having a cluttered list of games when I want to chose one.
It seems you are still left with some clutter... At least in your offline library in that way
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Zimerius: (…)
I’m not sure to get what you mean by "offline library" here.

Do you mean the DRM-free installers? I keep all of them on a dedicated 12TB hard drive, with an automation script downloading the updated ones every night (from GOG, Humble Bundle and itch.io) so I don’t need to follow the updates manually.

But that’s not clutter, that’s simply owning a copy of what I bought ;)
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Zimerius: (…)
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vv221: I’m not sure to get what you mean by "offline library" here.

Do you mean the DRM-free installers? I keep all of them on a dedicated 12TB hard drive, with an automation script downloading the updated ones every night (from GOG, Humble Bundle and itch.io) so I don’t need to follow the updates manually.

But that’s not clutter, that’s simply owning a copy of what I bought ;)
ah yea of course. you are right. probably a bit of overthinking on my behalf
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vv221: I’m not limiting myself to GOG, actually only 20~25% of my DRM-free games come from GOG.

Despite my "limited" selection, I own several thousands DRM-free games. Out of an obviously much bigger pool of DRM-free games.

I would have shopped at other DRM-free games stores, like I actually already do. And I expect another of these stores would have taken its place as "the DRM-free place", in a similar way that I believe a world without Valve would have seen the rise of DRM anyway, only pushed by another actor.
I may have used the name GOG, but I was really talking about DRM-Free stores in general, not just GOG.

And I likewise have many DRM-Free games from stores other than GOG.
But it is not always about how much choice, but if you are interested in something specific, as I stated.

I am generally Steam adverse, mostly except for freebies, which I just collect to my Steam account ... playing them is a different matter.

I got a Steam account, because it was forced upon me, back in 2008/2009 when I did not see the small print, and didn't really know what Steam meant. I'd bought the Orange Box and SiN: Episodes on disc locally. Both of which I really wanted, but took me a while to get around to installing, by which time returning them was too late. In any case I wanted those games, and was hopeful some kind of CD crack would eventually solve the Steam issue.

And because I already had a Steam account, and I saw all of the Valve games appear in a bundle, which was so cheap it equated to around a $1 each, I grabbed that in 2017. In fact I kind of gave up on PC games for the period of 2009 to May 2017, because of what Steam meant.

In May 2017, I'd rediscovered GOG, which I couldn't take advantage of before and had forgotten about. At that time I got back into PC gaming and made a GOG account and investigated Steam again.

What can I say, I love the Half Life games, some of which I'd played before the advent of Steam. So I was kind of in for a penny in for a pound because I had a Steam account anyway. That said, it is rare for me to use it, but it is another tool in my gaming toolbox. And some of those games are what I call DRM-Free Lite

The upshot, is that I can tolerate some DRM for a handful of games, but not beyond that, and only because those games are special to me, were special before the advent of Steam.

While I don't care much about most of the games I have at Steam, especially the 98% that were free, I'd be unhappy to lose access to the small number I do care about.

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vv221: To each their own, but to me the DRM is too much of a negative to be overcome by anything. Even for free, I simply do not want DRM in my games (or any other software/media by the way).
That is of course your choice, but as I stated, certainly for me, it depends on the game, and many games at Steam and Epic are what you could call DRM-Free Lite, and who knows what the future might bring, so I get for free while I can.
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vv221: Oh, it’s actually very easy:
1. Don’t create an account on any DRM store
2. No step 2 ;)
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Magnitus: I have an account on Steam. I created it to view aggregated review scores for erotic games (many of them, you can't view unless you have an account).

But I have zero purchases on the Steam store which can be annoying, because it means I can't post there (the devs are often more active replying to inquiries in the Steam forums). Still, sticking to my guns on this one.

The only time I'd ever install the Steam client on a machine would be if I wanted to release a game (for troubleshooting purposes, Steam has too big of a market share to ignore), but I'd install it on a separate test machine. Wouldn't dream of polluting my main computer or even my side gaming boxes with one of those dreadful third party bloatware that runs in the background all the time. I'm the owner, captain and master of my computers, thank you very much.

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JakobFel: Even when I was a GOG fanboy, I knew I couldn't entirely remove Steam games from my system. Partially because my library over there is massive (over 1200 games total, though only roughly 850 are paid games; many of them I got from giveaways), but also because they still have a superior amount of games to buy.

However, GOG has been on the rapid downslope for me over the past year and a half and I've since found myself using Steam so much more. It sucks because I still love DRM-free and hate how Steam basically created the DRM crisis in PC gaming, but Steam offers a better product (more useful store, better client), way more value to their customers, they don't force you to consent to data theft, they make it convenient for non-credit card holders due to prepaid wallet cards, and their service has so many more features (profile customization is phenomenal there). Not to mention the existence of the Steam Deck and their pretty useful mobile apps.

But hey, what are we gonna do? When even someone who had communication with GOG staff and regularly engaged with them online can't seem to get feedback through to them, there's not much else I can do except go where I feel valued as a customer.
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Magnitus: To each his own. I hate drm in purchased products so much that if I didn't have a viable drm-free alternative to purchase from (that promotes games as drm-free, not that might be drm-free and perhaps I have to do hacks and whatnot), I'd stop purchasing games and I'd just play what I have (which is enough to last me a lifetime).

Under such a scenario, the only way I'd possibly consider paying for games in the future would be if a service like Netflix emerged for gaming. As in, you charge me about 20$ a month and give me access to thousands of games I don't own.

Its not ownership and it is horrible for preservation, but it is cheap and honest about what it is and I can respect that. And if game creators complain that they aren't making enough from their games under such a model, I'll tell them it is their own freaking fault for not selling their games drm-free. Want to make real money from your games? Then, give up some control. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Xeshra: All versions of the insanely hyped Black Myth Wukong are using Denuvo Anti Tamper, a strong DRM.

Despite the heavy PC demand, over 1 million gamers are currently playing it on Steam, i guess many PCs are gonna become vapor-devices.
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Magnitus: You know, I think the aholes making those decisions are not getting enough flak.

They should have their name and picture recorded for prosperity. That way, future generations can know that access to this or that game was lost forever, because such and such a CEO wanted to squeese the very last possible dollar from their product.
Dunno... they may get no "piracy" for years... with some luck, but on the other hand people like me are NOT buying their Denuvo-game. Apparently, in their view... the piracy-people will buy their Denuvo-game because those "poor" people got no other choice anymore... this is the theory at least.

And people like me they are such a huge minority... APPARENTLY, they can not "make up" for the huge loss of the money from those... wanna-be-pirates-if-they-could... which in my mind is a hilarious mentality. Because i think... most of those pirates are not going to buy a game as soon as they got no "cheaper choice" anymore... perhaps i am wrong, maybe i am unable to see the truth... that all the people need some "DRM pressure" in order to behave nice and fluid. Perhaps... according to this publisher-theory... most people got enough of coins, even 50+, but they need DRM pressure ´"to make them pay... else they dont"... a funny theory to me but i lack the correct science in order to debunk this theory.

Fact is... if someone can afford a powerful PC that can play this game properly... even in China or Brazil... the coins spend on this game is not a major issue to them, especially because they got a cheap regional pricing in usual. Once again... maybe i am wrong and the people need pressure for making them pay.

To me... just as i said... i got zero interest into Denuvo games anymore, so they will not see my coins at all.

Besides... the age of DRM-circumvented games is almost gone because most games that are "played for free" are nowadays usually played using a Steam-emulator... however... this may not necessarily work on a Denuvo-game.
Post edited September 02, 2024 by Xeshra
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Timboli: But it is not always about how much choice, but if you are interested in something specific, as I stated.
Here I am strict enough about my no-DRM rule that as soon as I learn that some game is not available DRM-free I usually lose all interest and forget about it. So I’m probably missing on many great games, but since I do not know about them this is not frustrating in any way.

The only exception being games from studios that used to release DRM-free builds but stopped doing it for some reason, the current worst offender being Supergiant Games with Hades, a game I know I would love to play.

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Timboli: That is of course your choice, but as I stated, certainly for me, it depends on the game, and many games at Steam and Epic are what you could call DRM-Free Lite, and who knows what the future might bring, so I get for free while I can.
Your choice is obviously at least as valid as mine, you won’t get any critics from me about that ;)

I especially like your honesty in using "DRM-free Lite", while many players would simply pretend that all the games they buy are truly DRM-free instead of admitting they are actually a bit lax with the presence of some flavours of DRM.
Post edited September 02, 2024 by vv221
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Timboli: But it is not always about how much choice, but if you are interested in something specific, as I stated.
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vv221: Here I am strict enough about my no-DRM rule that as soon as I learn that some game is not available DRM-free I usually lose all interest and forget about it. So I’m probably missing on many great games, but since I do not know about them this is not frustrating in any way.

The only exception being games from studios that used to release DRM-free builds but stopped doing it for some reason, the current worst offender being Supergiant Games with Hades, a game I know I would love to play.
Rejoice my evil hating camarads in arms!!!

Space Marine 2's Developer rejects DRM

as do the dev's from Payday 3 and Tekken 8

https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k-space-marine-2/denuvo-drm

For Zhe Emperorrr !!!! (who knows, maybe we will get a Roman Emperor again O.O)
WoW! Such good news, I accidentally removed more games from my system than i needed too. In the end, it was a bit much to chew on for Good 'ol Galaxy.

There are 3 open spots I NEED to fill with the best of the best DRM free titles

Suggestions ?

check the image to see what's already installed

plus ME trilogy remastered, CnC remastered, NFS Payback
Attachments:
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Zimerius: Space Marine 2's Developer rejects DRM

as do the dev's from Payday 3 and Tekken 8
Rejecting Denuvo is one thing, rejecting DRM is another ;)
Are these games available outside of Steam? Otherwise Denuvo or not will not change a thing.

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Zimerius: There are 3 open spots I NEED to fill with the best of the best DRM free titles
- Alpha Centauri (could be replaced with Stellaris if you can’t get past the dated interface)
- Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun
- Shadowrun: Dragonfall

(looking at your current list, I think you would really enjoy all three/four games)
Post edited September 02, 2024 by vv221
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vv221: Here I am strict enough about my no-DRM rule that as soon as I learn that some game is not available DRM-free I usually lose all interest and forget about it. So I’m probably missing on many great games, but since I do not know about them this is not frustrating in any way.
Well I am similar in a way, because I deliberately don't browse Steam, so I don't see something I might desire. If I don't know about it I cannot possibly want it, and I would have no doubt not seen many great games, that some part of me would want.

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vv221: Your choice is obviously at least as valid as mine, you won’t get any critics from me about that ;)
And I hope you did not think I was inferring yours was invalid. Clearly you are happy with your choice. But I wouldn't be happy with that choice myself, and it certainly wouldn't be easy for me.

Honestly, if I hadn't been tricked into needing to get a Steam account, back when I only had a 56K modem, which was the norm around here back then, I would likely not even have a Steam account now, except I might have due to free games. However, not really understanding what Steam was back in 2008/2009, and then discovering how awful it was with a 56K modem, taught me how to hate Steam big time, which took me about 9 years to get over, if never fully.

When I installed SiN:Episodes back then, it took me about 3 days or more to download updates, before I could even play the game, and then it ran like shit on my PC back then, so salt rubbed on the wound.

I'd just been a guy who bought games at the local gaming store on disc, and installed and played them. I was not an online player, who could be really, with only a 56K modem. So Steam was like a nightmare. So a big part of me still hates Steam. And while I could certainly choose to avoid Steam, I like having lots of free games there and not giving them my money. I've made a few exceptions, but they only total around a handful.

You could almost see me as a collector of mostly free games at Steam, but rarely a player of any there. It's become a hobby for sure, along with collecting games at several other stores, with GOG certainly being the biggest. I could almost say I don't even have to play a game to love it. That probably sounds silly, but for me its the whole technology imagination creative thing. Hell, before I started playing computer games back in the late 90s, starting with Quake, I thought they were just for kids. LOL
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Zimerius: Space Marine 2's Developer rejects DRM

as do the dev's from Payday 3 and Tekken 8
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vv221: Rejecting Denuvo is one thing, rejecting DRM is another ;)
Are these games available outside of Steam? Otherwise Denuvo or not will not change a thing.

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Zimerius: There are 3 open spots I NEED to fill with the best of the best DRM free titles
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vv221: - Alpha Centauri (could be replaced with Stellaris if you can’t get past the dated interface)
- Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun
- Shadowrun: Dragonfall

(looking at your current list, I think you would really enjoy all three/four games)
It's either Steam, XboX Windows or Epic's game store

Sound suggestions, thank you, i'll give it some thought, especially Alpha Centauri
Post edited September 03, 2024 by Zimerius
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Zimerius: It's either Steam, XboX Windows or Epic's game store
So despite the developers/publishers claims, this game is not available DRM-free. That’s a shame.
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Zimerius: It's either Steam, XboX Windows or Epic's game store
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vv221: So despite the developers/publishers claims, this game is not available DRM-free. That’s a shame.
Well, yea, but the developers themselves can be pro DRM-free and choose to not add DRM measures. What their publisher does with is of course something else entirely. I am pretty sure there are quite a few people who would passionately discuss the difference between DRM solutions and Online Store protection solutions.
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Zimerius: I did another surprisingly difficult thing. I decided to decrease the installed game count to 50 (see attachment) Now i hate myself for doing it!
Pre non-steam era i've grown accustomed to have more than 300 titles installed. Somewhere along the way tho, i started with a chain of thoughts that atm suggest that large amounts of installed games actually hamper my cul the backlog initiative.
I've found that installing games in batches (somewhere around 50 at a time) is a good way to get through the backlog. More than that, and it starts getting too overwhelming to deal with. I also don't have the hard drive space to be installing hundreds of games at once.