1) They don't have to chose - they had no problems implementing them on Steam.
2) Again - your opinion only and every achievement lover would disagree. We should not be selfish just because it is something we don't really need ourselfes.

Or certain updates, languages or achievements... nothing anybody should defend! Please tell me why you defend such a behavior. Just because you get the same base game? We get less and pay the same and you think that is all right?

Still you think it is a valid argument to treat GOG different because you don't need them. When a user asked for achievements you said that not every game has achievements (which is correct). When I explained that this game has achievements elsewhere ansd therefore should not be treated different here you said that you don't need them ... well - it does not matter if you or I need them as long as there are some people who would like to have them.

"imo" - exactly "imo" - and many, many, many people see this completely differently. I can live without achievements as well but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the fact that devs treat GOG different than other stores - especially Steam - while still demanding the same amount of money.

Well, there is no need to complain about this here since the game already HAS achievements since release - not on GOG though. But at least we agree that devs should not treat GOG customers different.

Not true. Those you are talking about are those who dislike MANDATORY acvhievements which might destract from the game. Nobody, really nobody could give any argument for missing optional achievements. If you don't need them, don't use them.

Win7 32bit is very rare but no, I run 64 bit as well so that's not it.

Conclusion:

Worth of achievements = $0.00.

1. Steam likely provides them many more sales(thus more incentive) and also it is likely that steam expects it of games added to it's store.

2. If I may ask: How is it selfish for me to state that achievements are not needed to enjoy a game or needed/a good fit for some games sold here? It's not like I control the actions of the devs or similar or am hoping they won't add them.....I am merely expressing my stance on the matter.

Also as I said: I also like them a bit & if they add them that is fine, but even if games don't include them I can still enjoy said games without them(An aside: I much prefer the classic style secrets and such from games of old, if devs wanted to be generous and add such)

Addition: What did you mean every achievement lover would disagree? That they'd rather have them over game fixes/extra content/actual secrets?

I never said it was right or that I defended such....I said that they SHOULD add such to Gog versions as well(soundtracks/updates/languages/manuals/etc), but ALSO that i'd rather they add that stuff than worry about achievements....to me that sort of stuff is more important for more people & adds more to a game than someone seeing a picture pop up if they score 100 kills with one weapon or finish a level on easy/normal/hard.

Fair enough, but tell me this: When do most gamers play games for? To experience the gameplay(storytelling/action/characters/other base elements), or to see the achievements?

Also yes some(including me a bit) like to have them, but that doesn't mean anyone should be denied the right to say their peace on achievements or criticize their flaws.

Steam can afford to add extra bells and whistles and likely has enough clout to encourage devs to add such in many cases.

Also Gog balances it all out(again imo) by making the games DRM free so we can keep them(more or less) forever.

True, but on the other hand it's their IP....their rules, etc....if one doesn't like them they don't have to partake(as some choose to do already).

If you use galaxy aren't they baked into the game? I don't think you can switch them off.

Hmm, this is indeed a puzzle, then.

To be fair people ask for things that are near worthless or bad for them all the time due to things like addiction(ex: drugs, alcohol, various means to gamble, etc), perceived worth(ex: good luck charms, those "healing bracelets" with magnets in them, etc), and other things.

(This is not to say achievements do as much harm as some of those things to most people)

That's exactly the problem. Steam of course provides them more sales so they decide to see GOG just as a bonus and treating them different (try to keep the additional effort as low as possible) while still demandingh the same money from GOG customers. Again: you really should not defend such behavior. Look at the list and see what happened because of such thinking already.

The selfish part is that by saying that achievements are unnecessary for some games in general you completely ignore that that's only your opinion. By defending such behavior everybody who reads it - including the devs/publishers - might think that they did right (the opposite happened in the case of "Heaven's Vault" where devs read about people complaining about missing achievements and therefore implemented them). Anyway, by NOT defending this but supporting those requesting the same features Steam already has even though you don't need them yourself you would not lose anything but only helping. Like I said, I can live without achievements as well, yet I still side with those who want them here as well. If I don't use them, I will just turn them off - but others might be happy about them.

I was referring to the part in which you said that achievements are not important and devs should rather do other things. What you don't understand is that it is their RESPONSIBILUTY to fix any broken game - no matter if they have to add achievements or not. And since they are obviously able to do both on Steam there's no reason to not do it on GOG other than not wanting to spend any more effort on GOG but still wanting the same money from GOG customers. That's just wrong and unfair.

You really should start to think about others as well. Is it really so hard to understand that some are sad that achievements are not here? Don't you want to help them just because you don't care? Hey, what's about certain languages you don't speak? Well, I don't speak Japanese - devs should rather concentrate on fixing the game than adding additional languages to it ... only because YOU think achievements are not important does not mean that that's a fact - it is just your opinion.

Today? I would tell you it's 50/50 - ever heard of the term achievement hunters? There's a lot of them out there. But even if it only were a few I'd still say the same. TREAT GOG THE SAME AS STEAM!

You can criticize achievements as much as you like - thats not the part I have a problem with. Telling devs by defending their behavior that it is o.k. to treat GOG customers different that Steam customers that's what I have a problem with. I would not have said anything if the game would not have any achievements on Steam as well (in fact I looked it up before participating here).

Steam does not pay extra for achievements - that's nonsense.

Another non-argument. GOGs policy is DRM-free. There's no reason why a DRM-free build should not receive the same treatment and GOG is also not paying additional for DRM-free ... same as Steam is not paying extra for achievements. So in the end there's no need to get less when paying the same.

You are talking about the devs? Well ... without complaining and telling them about the problem nothing will change. I prefer to complain in every way possible to get fair treatment. And if you are talking about GOG ... it's hard for me to even keep track with all those support tickets I've created over the years ;) Like I said, if I dislike something I tend to express this and if I think something is unfair ... I 'll make it my personal agenda to change things as long as I can.

You can switch achievements off in Galaxy for every game (it's a checkbox listed under in-game features).

^Regarding the droll discussion about achievements:

Whoever came up with that bullshit has a special place in hell waiting for them. Thanks, Microsoft, for making that shit popular. All these numbnuts gamers salivating over some retarded Pavlovian bullshit. Wooooo! A new shiny virtual badge that means nothing, absolutely nothing. I feel sorry for people who can't get a sense of achievement from a game without having positive reinforcements continuously shoved into their faces.

Games must have been completely shit in the early 2000s, 90s, and before without them... Fucking hell.

Just a heads-up for the GOG staff, the soundtrack lists system requirements as Windows (), so going to checkout with the soundtrack in my cart gives me the message "1 game from your order is NOT compatible with your Windows."

I am not trying to defend it but merely to explain it, and also as I said I don't consider a lack of progress markers(what they are essentially) to be such a bad thing.

(It is nice to have them, though, for others[and me as well sometimes], and I find it nice when they add them...I just don't see them as necessary for every game or that devs not adding them is as much a mistreatment of gog users as you appear to think it is)

Do you really think if one person says "I dislike achievements" or similar on this forum it will stop them from coming here, or that if one more said "I want achievements" or similar that it would change a dev's mind so easily?

Also I believe everyone should be able to state their opinions civilly and I don't see that as selfish for people to do so...now if that same person controlled what devs did here, then i'd see it as selfish(if they imposed their will on others via game copies sold here).

I said or tried to say they aren't AS important, not that they aren't important at all.

Also by responsibility do you mean legally or morally? Afaik it isn't their legal responsibility(at least in the US) to fix broken games.....most times people just are told to get refunds when buying games that don't work here.
(I am not trying to defend such things, btw, by saying such....I am just stating how they work here)

Life is unfair....people get hurt and DIE all the time and no one knows or cares in some cases....I think that kind of thing is more important than gog games not getting achievements.

Also as I said we get DRM free game copies which is added value steam copies don't have, which balances some of that lost/"lost" value out.

Appeal to emotion: you are trying to act like I don't care about people just because I dislike achievements added to every game and have stated such....like I am some vile cad for daring to not want people to have their shiny pics and text pop up every so often during a game.....this is not the case(I often help people here with games or kind words, and I help others irl as well in various ways).

Some achievement hunters are addicts and need help to ween off their addiction(I mean the ones who NEED to get every single one or they obsess over it).

I am not defending actual bad behavior by devs in so much as you seem to be over inflating the negative impact of them not adding achievement to gog game versions.

In a way they do albeit indirectly....via the lure of more sales on it's store and other incentives...they can then ask devs to add things more easily than Gog can due to having more money/influence to do so with.

It is still added value that many steam games do not have....You seem to be focusing a tad too much on the argument of "if the copies on both stores are not 1:1 in ALL ways then people are being moderately-severely mistreated" instead of looking to see if the various things each store does balance out in terms of overall value.

An admirable quality, at the very least. :)

Thanks for the info.

(Addition: If you have time then read up on achievements and their effects on the human brain and why devs/companies added them into games....it is akin to how they designed randomized lootboxes/etc.....i.e. it wasn't done to be nice to gamers but to make more money off of people for little to no extra effort.

Once you read into this and learn about the history of such things[achievements/etc] I would like to know if you still think devs not adding such in gog games makes gog users as second class as you previously stated/inferred)

===========================================
===========================================

While I am not as opposed to them and while you expressed your points a bit more crudely than I feel is needed, I agree a bit with some of this. People used to play games to have fun with them and didn't need such reinforcement to enjoy their games....now some people expect them in every game(even old ones or ones not suited for them) & use them to brag to others and/or feel good about wasting more time(more so than usual) doing a bunch of things they might not have done("shoot y enemy 100 times with x weapon, play 1000 hours onultra hard, etc) had they not been added to their games.

Achievements are a double edged sword of a marketing gimmick, which have some positives but also a load of negatives.

They also provoke Pavlovian responses akin to those animal experiments in the past and are very addictive, and they(devs/etc) know it.....devs and such added them(initially) to sell more games and make more money, not mainly to be nice to gamers.

You still don't get it. This is not about the question if you or me consider achievements to be a useful thing. This is simply about different treatment.

Like I said (and also hyperlinked): It happened. But once again, this is not about achievements it is about telling devs to treat GOG and Steam users the same. Achievements are just ONE part in which many don't.

Well, I explained why it is selfish to not fight for something others might help and which would not hurt you. If you still don't think it's selfish to not help I guess there's a lack in empathy.

Morally of course.

Hey, you are right. Let's just raise the prizes of all games by 50% only on GOG - let's just scratch every single feature just on GOG and let's not bugfix the games anymore ... hey, we are just talking about games and there are far more important matters in the world worth fighting for. Guess what, I am talking about games and here there is nothing more important than games because ... drumwhirl ... this is a games forum and a games release thread. OMG!

With this attitude (no need to fight there are more important things out there) you will be screwd again and again. And a third time: it is NOT(!) about achievements but fairniss and same treatment.

And I told you that this is nonsense. It's GOG's policy and they don't pay extra for DRM-free so we should not as well. Also Steam does nmot pay for achievements. Do you even read my answers?

No, I act like you don't understand that you could help others without hurting yourself.

Oh, that is such crap. You are a doctor now as well? Hmmm... I've heard games are dangerous as well. Come on!

Once again I ask you to READ my replies - I stated over and over that it is all about same treatment.

And still there's not more money involved in developing .... your arguments are lacking.

I am focusing of COSTS and PRIZES - if both are the same the VALUE should be the same as well.

Why should I? I don't need achievements myself - like I said again and again ....

And with this I am out. I explained everything multiple times and I don't see any reason to constantly repeat myself. So do what you like and make GOG treatment even more unfair just because there are some things unimportant for you.

All I wanted to say is that GOG should get the same features Steam did - including achievements, no matter if everybody needs them or not. I never planned to go into a discussion about necessity of achievements, hypothetical additional costs of DRM-free games and empathy. This has gone far too OT right now and we should end this both right ow.

what do you mean "early 2000s, 90s"?

Achievements are much older, all the way back to early 80's, when you could get physical patches from completing games on the Intellivision, Colecovision, Atari 5200 and Atari 2600...

edit: added image

and If you have time then read up on computer games and their effects on the human brain... or comics and their effects on the human brain... or rock music and their effects on the human brain... or mobile phones and their effects on the human brain... or blues and their effects on the human brain... or movies and their effects on the human brain... or TV and it's effects on the human brain... or the internet and it's effects on the human brain... or SatNav's and their effects on the human brain.. or...

yes, they all exist. best to sit very still in a corner and not do anything, it will affect your brain... the word of today is "moral panic"

good luck

I get it....I just don't see it as a big deal....and I also don't see every difference between steam and gog versions as a moderate-majorly bad thing.
(i.e. I think the DRM free aspect of gog versions balances out the lack of achievements for some games, for example)

One or two times of it happening doesn't mean it will happen every time someone says something like "I don't think achievements should be in gog games"....also for all I know other factors could have played into those games's devs decisions on whether or not to add achievements(We are not privy to the inner workings of such decisions for the most part, after all).

And as I said, if we had to pick between the two(them or other stuff like updates/languages/manuals/soundtracks/etc) i'd always pick the latter...though I wouldn't be opposed to them bringing achievements here for those who want them.

It's up to people to fight for what they want to fight for.....some might see it as also selfish to think others should fight for things they don't want to or feel the desire to.

Now you're just being silly...i.e. you are equating(badly) that because I state there are more important things than achievements that that must somehow mean I think we should stop working on other things for the games here.

I never said that, just that there are other things much more important than achievements(both irl and online with concerns to gaming) that we should worry about a bit more.

As the saying goes, we should pick our "battles" carefully(to use our energies wisely/etc)....and also as I said: I don't consider it very unfair or bad treatment to not get achievements....on this we will just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

You can call it nonsense if you want, it doesn't change the fact that we still get added value in the form of drm free installers....so while the versions are not 1:1 the different features of different store's versions often make up for the loss of value from one version to another.

I do understand.....I even said i'd be ok with and welcome game achievements in various places while also saying I don't think every game needs them....this seems fair I think.

Games and achievements have some negative aspects, like addiction in some people....this has been proven, even if one is not a doctor.

Their "ball"(games and time/money), their rules.....just because something is cheap to do doesn't mean they owe something to us....if one doesn't like something they can choose not to partake.

Or near 100% of the value, and as objectively speaking as possible(though this may be easier said than done as many people value different aspects a bit more or less), but agreed. I just(as I said) don't think the copies need to be 1:1 perfect/same copies for their values to be the same or similar.

Because you are fighting for them seemingly without knowing or caring much about the somewhat shady reasons they were implemented or what they do to some people. It'd be akin to doing the same to defend randomized lootboxes and gacha mechanics.

If one wants to defend something they should make sure it is worth defending and they aren't defending something with a shady past without knowing it.

And you did so civilly, even though you made or keep making some of the same logical fallacies like: Ad hominems(here for examples with this quoted bit), Argumentum ad Populum(In regards to steam/etc having achievements so gog somehow MUST have them too to be equal), Appeals to emotion(here in this bit and others), slippery slope(the bits where you tried to equate me stating my opinion as somehow likely to cause much worse to happen to games on Gog), and possibly others.

Of course you also made some decent points as well, and answered some of my questions, so thanks for that & for talking to me so far(even if we didn't see eye to eye on everything said so far). :)

Agreed....we could always make a thread on it in the future if we or anyone else wants to talk more on the matter, though, as it is a topic worthy of discussion from both sides, I think.

But you are right....I will leave this here for you and others to read and stop at this. Have a good one/holiday season(new year's/etc). :)

Nice find.....still, I bet most of them weren't of the ultra easy variety like some "achievements" now(i.e. finish tutorial/first level, create a character, etc variety). Also at least they gave some more added value(actual physical items that cost them more money to make).
------------------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't trying to create a panic and am not panicked myself(I enjoy them a bit too, for example), I am just trying to show that achievements effects on people are not all positives while also highlighting why they were added(recently, digital ones that is) to games to make a point.

And at least games and other media tell a story, and thus provide some worth to our collective culture.....most achievements of today do not do so/do so as much.

There has been shown and proven, many times, that games effects people, not all positive, and that they are addictive.. so... yes... same with comics, rock, movies, internet et al. so that's fine as long as they tell a good story. Here, have some crack, and I will tell you the story of Hanzel and Gretel.

Absurd examples & arguments do not disprove my point or make it much less valid(if at all). Said media ADDS to our collective society in some way and is liked/tolerated by many....giving drugs to people and telling them(already pre made) stories, not as much.

(Also what you just said could possibly be a straw man in and of itself)