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Orkhepaj: imho we are getting it even worse than that, many movies are about how bad and awful white men are at least the straight ones

btw where can i see all the hungarian main champs? where is the representation? i want my games which represent me as hungarian white male
see this is what is bad with this representation thing you can always slice it up to smaller groups and find one which is not represented "enough"
I don't really care if there is no hungarian champ as main characters, I just want good enjoyable games, i cant see how this is a human desire, imho it is artificially boosted
I think all categorisations are not equal.

I'm French Canadian and you don't see too many of those in games/books/movies and that's fine. My geographic identity is modest at best.

However, one's association with their gender identity and sexual preference tends to be pretty strong.

I'd be a lot more affected if there was an absence of straight men in games/movies/books compared to how I am affected by an absence of French Canadians.

If you want stronger evidence to back this claim: A lot of people move abroad and change nationality. How many people (and I'm not talking about those in the closet or discovering their identity) do you see changing their sexual preference or gender identity once it is established?

btw, I think that right now, any kind of representation of LGBTQ in games/books/movies will feel strange and forced to most straight cis-gendered people, because we are not used to it. Perhaps we should be used to it and the current state of things is a cultural shortcoming that will seem wrong to future generations who will study us (just like shortcomings in previous generations seem wrong to us when we study them).
Post edited January 09, 2021 by Magnitus
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Magnitus: I'm French Canadian and you don't see too many of those in games/books/movies and that's fine. My geographic identity is modest at best.
The Keeper Chronicles trilogy by Tanya Huff is fun modern fantasy humor and totally worth the read. And French Canadian. :)
Post edited January 10, 2021 by mqstout
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Robette: So, was there actually anything in Celeste that was queer other than the developer saying so? I played through the game and didn't encounter much, although I didn't do that final optional dungeon?
[Celeste Chapter 9 ending spoilers]

At the end of Chapter 9, there is one particular image that shows Madeline's desk, with a picture that looks like her younger self, but with short hair, a bottle of medicine, and even a little trans flag.

Some players have reported area transitions in Chapter 7 having the trans pride colors, as well.

Interestingly, according to Maddy Thorsom, they didn't set out to make a transgender protagonist, and they dodn't know they were non-binary when they started making the game; it just happened to come later.

(In a sense, it took a while for Madeline, Celeste's main character, to come out.)
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dtgreene: At the end of Chapter 9, there is one particular image that shows Madeline's desk, with a picture that looks like her younger self, but with short hair, a bottle of medicine, and even a little trans flag.
So the game advocates the full programme with irreversible surgeries and everything that implies.
I just looked it up, according to Wikipedia the protagonist is a "young woman". And yeah, she does look very young, like late teens at most. So presumably the game's makers would also be ok with giving puberty blockers to pre-pubescent children.
Sounds extremely questionable to me.
Post edited January 10, 2021 by morolf
I find religion very questionable but I don't go in "what's a good Christian game" thead feeling the need to tell everyone about it. How come? If you don't have games to suggest that respond to the OP criteria, why are you even here?
And why are you so obsessed with trans people?
Post edited January 10, 2021 by Dogmaus
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Starmaker: Gender identity is likewise a completely fictional (bullshit) concept.
Sorry to break it for you, but you're dead wrong here. Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you are comfortable with what you are, doesn't mean everybody else is. And you're not entitled to say that they should be, that's just insane.

I do agree that these issues affect only a (small) minority of people, and that sometimes things get blown out of proportion. But these are still people who deserve the respect every human being is IMO entitled to. In some older cultures people like that were even considered "holy", because they had the insight into "different worlds". They were actually more enlightened than the common "straight" bloke or wench, because they could relate to being "both".
And I personally think that was a wise way to deal with it. It's always useful to expand knowledge and experiences and antagonising them because they seem strange at first is never useful.
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Post edited January 10, 2021 by teceem
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Magnitus: ..., because we are not used to it. Perhaps we should be used to it...
I think that's the point. I wonder what 19th century parlors would have to say about Lara Croft. "Toxic" would probably have been a mild way to describe the reactions...

I do think real LGBTQ characters will always be a minority, and that's fine, because LGBTQ people are too. But they should be there, and it should be normal that they are around, because basically, it is.

And I think game makers and other story tellers will find ways to incorporate them and in less clumsy and "virtue signalling" ways than sometimes nowadays.

I very much believe in "Live and let live". There's a place for everyone, and everyone's story. And nobody is ever forced to listen to them either. There's only a problem when people start to tell other people what's "right". And what they can't have. And I think, that's what needs to stop. From all sides.
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Post edited January 10, 2021 by teceem
Hey OP,

Don't listen to some of the people in this thread who are being shitty about it

I'd recommend Dragon Age Origins, it has a gog release + 2 bisexual characters (iirc Zevran + Leliana who you can romance)

It's an RPG from 2010. BioWare game, on sale with all dlc its £3.79 on gog so I'd recommend waiting for that.

lgbtq+ rights are good + representation in media (including games), sucks that ppl are giving this vote a low rating

Celeste (on itch), as you said you got highly recommend (madeline is highly implied to be trans + Maddie thorson the creator confirmed it) its a fun platformer and I loved it
Post edited January 10, 2021 by numberonehangestan
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teceem: No, he's right! It's like racism and sexism... if a white male doesn't experience it, then it must be fiction!

(do I really need to mention sarcasm?)
:-) always better to announce it on the internet.

But since you mentioned it, "white straight male" is really the new sexist and racist meme of the interwebs. Like "you don't have a say, because you're German, and all Germans are Nazis" (which I've actually encountered, I didn't bother to answer, not knowing if to lol or cry).
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dtgreene: At the end of Chapter 9, there is one particular image that shows Madeline's desk, with a picture that looks like her younger self, but with short hair, a bottle of medicine, and even a little trans flag.
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morolf: So the game advocates the full programme with irreversible surgeries and everything that implies.
I just looked it up, according to Wikipedia the protagonist is a "young woman". And yeah, she does look very young, like late teens at most. So presumably the game's makers would also be ok with giving puberty blockers to pre-pubescent children.
Sounds extremely questionable to me.
Madeline is believed to be 20+ in general with more evidence given by the fact she has a long history with anxiety & depression, drives, drinks)

https://celestegame.fandom.com/wiki/Madeline

Trans healthcare (e.g puberty blockers, etc) is supported by doctors and trans people benefit from it, I don't see the issue here.
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Post edited January 10, 2021 by teceem
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teceem: Hey, at least you guys wear stylish uniforms! ;-P
Well, not anymore, we do...

But I guess in the category "evil with style" Germany's still uncontested. From Riefenstahl to Speer... That's actually something I adore the newish Wolfenstein games for - they picked up on that adorably and heightened it into horror.
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babark: So if a game throws forced straight stuff at you, that is ok, because straight stuff is normal, but if a game throws forced lgbtq stuff at you, then that's an agenda, and is bad?

You can see how that sort of thinking automatically just shuts down anything other than hetero, right?
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Orkhepaj: yep

but how can you force normal things? do creators put posts on twitter that they intentionally made a champ hetero because of their ideology?

still non-hetero is fine, forced non-hetero is not , fe why the lqgt champ hast to be positive
"and the game must not present them in a strictly negative or offensive light." ? that clearly is forced
She said they can't be presented in "STRICTLY" a negative or terribly stereotypical way.. They can be bad guys, but the terribly stereotypical or poor portrayals (like in Deadly Premonition 2) should not be considered. Stop trying to treat people's traits and characteristics like some kind of threat to your own existence.