Posted February 15, 2015
hedwards: His argument is bullshit is why I hold him in such low regards. The fact of the matter is that if there were something in that video worth my time, you should have enumerated it so that I didn't have to watch the video. I started watching the video and stopped when he started to go off on relativism. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be linking to it. It's just common courtesy.
awalterj: Common courtesy is listening to what the person and in this case Hitchens has to say and then giving a reason why it's bullshit before calling it bullshit. You haven't given any reasons. I don't have to enumerate any specific points he makes in the video because I agree with him on everything he says in the video and clearly said so, not just any specific part. All I did was invite you to watch it as it directly relates to the topic here. You're under no obligation to watch it if 20 minutes is too long.
I think if you can't be bothered to provide a synopsis of what you think the video means, then there's very little point in viewing it as there's no way to know if it supports your argument or not.
hedwards: Life is way too short to argue with somebody that's misapplying post-modernism rather than acknowledging that the boundaries are a bit soft and case by case.
awalterj: I agree with you that life is too short for what we are doing here but yet we -are- here ("we" including you, as well), arguing with perhaps nothing really constructive coming out of it for anyone involved. Not that I expected anything else to happen, however the thread had to be made imho and everyone who posted in here is responsible for the length the thread has, including the detractors. hedwards: You think Christians don't do that? The big difference here is that Christians are more likely to live in countries with a large amount of wealth and military might to back it up. If you actually bother to read up on things like the terrorist groups in the Middle East, they weren't there before we started meddling in their affairs.
awalterj: The influence of Western military presence in the Middle East is a related topic but would deserve an entirely separate discussion, an interesting one to debate. I'm mainly interested in discussing the topic of how and why religion at large (including Islam in this particular case) should -not- be exempt from ridicule and why it shouldn't be used as a tool to cut back on freedom of speech because that's a very dangerous thing to do, an inexcusable step backwards. hedwards: I see, so in other words, you're not responsible for your contribution to the problem, gotcha. So, if I start talking smack about that 6'3" 275lbs., linebacker's mother I'm not at all responsible for the consequences. That's a wonderful way of looking at things. That's just how the human brain functions.
awalterj: Answering with violence is how the uncivilized human brain functions, yes, including that of the leader of one of the biggest fear factories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25ccOZSO1M
If you insult a linebacker's mother and he physically assaults you, then that's entirely his responsibility, he makes that choice. Insulting anyone's mother is an asshat move and something no one should never do because it's cowardly and a weak move to play but hitting someone as retaliation for verbal insult is never justifiable. In fact, what Pope Francis says in the video above is hate speech in my opinion, far more than anything said in this thread. Violence is a line that you don't cross for verbal insult, ever.
If someone insults your mom, insult them back with a more sophisticated insult that actually hits home. Anyone insulting your mom is likely a turd and it should be easy to immediately find something with which to verbally smite them down. Or you can laugh at them, or ignore them. Physical assault, not an option. Whoever resorts to it shall have no excuse and should in my opinion not be given less punishment by the law due to "temporary unsoundness of mind".
Anyways, it's beyond debate that pissing people off is a great way to get them to go to the people that are in opposition to you. Most of those terrorist groups give generously to the people in order to be on their side. There are exceptions like ISIS, but we'll see how long that lasts. I doubt very much that when the entire rest of the Arab/Islamic world gets tired of it that it's going to last very long after that.