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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 01, 2021
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dtgreene: No, because:
* Abilities can be equipped as secondary.
* There are many other possible strategies that are viable.
* Each boss is different, so different strategies work against each one. For example, if I can put the boss to sleep, I don't need to worry about staying alive from then on. If the boss is level 20, I can just cast Level 5 Death and be done with it. If the boss is heavy, once successful Death Claw and one weak attack and it's dead. Or, perhaps the boss can be killed by using Spellblade Break and then attacking with that character, petrifying it. (Note that bosses are typically immune to this sort of thing, but there are a lot of exceptions; in the second world, most bosses can be killed just by mixing a Death Potion; the problem is getting the Dark Matter needed for that mix.)
* Summoners get Phoenix. Mix is learned from Chemist.
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kohlrak: Yeah, but i'm talking specifically about the scenario you mentioned. Obviously there are going to be alternative strategies. But since abilities can be equipped secondarily, are you telling me, then your blue mages and revivors could end up being the same characters in this build? I'm trying to figure out the exact tradeoffs for this blue-mage-two-hand-thwom-with-magic-axe build.
Well, to make good use of the Rune Edge, the Blue Mage spends their secondary on 2-Handed (learned from Knight), allowing double damage (and providing Strength if it would otherwise be low, which is its for the Blue Mage) at the cost of not being able to equip a shield while doing so (which Blue Mages can naturally equip, so the trade-off does matter in this case). However, other characters might have different set-ups, and perhaps other characters use different ways to deal damage.

On the other hand, if you aren't concerned about maximizing the damage of a specific weapon, there are other viable choices for the secondary. Add White Magic or Summon for revival (and Summon also has some really nice general-purpose attack spells, something Blue Magic lacks). Add Spellblade for petrification and MP draining. Add Mix for revival, MP recovery, and many more interesting effects (including a powerful HP drain; the Blue Mage's HP drain spell only restores half the Blue Mage's lost HP when it works).

The whole secondary ability mechanic is one of the great things about Final Fantasy 5, and is one of the main ways it differs from Final Fantasy 3.
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: That's an interesting way of limiting magic. Not my style, but I do find it interesting. I've always found, though, that tying elements to weapons results in having to choose between the raw damage a wepaon provides and the elemental bonus that's provided by it. For example, your water sword might be the first you've found in the game, but fire enemies you're dealing with are mid-game and you just got a fire sword in the dungeon. Sometimes you question why the devs even bothered.
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dtgreene: SaGa Frontier 2's magic is interesting in a few other ways.
* There's no elemental symmetry; you don't get comparable attack spells of different elements. Fire has some good attack spells, but those of Tree aren't as good, for example (even if Bushfire is great before you get Firestorm). It isn't like Final Fantasy games (or even early SaGa) where you might get attack spells whose only difference is whether they do fire, ice, or lightning damage.
I see this all the time, actually and it's quite annoying. The most recent ARPG i've played is Cyberdimension Neptunia: 4 Goddesses Online. As always, mage learns a fire spell first. From there, they learn an equal equivalent spell of another element a few levels down the line. Why this extreme asymetry? Worse yet, you learn tier n+1 fire before tier n wind. And, to make matters worse, there aren't that many enemies weak to wind and only wind, basically begging the question why we even have wind?
* You get anima from accessories as well as weapons. Armor doesn't provide an anima type (with one exception), but it provides better defense than others.
* Most spells take multiple types of anima; for example, both Bushfire and Firestorm require Tree and Flame. Incinerate requires both but also requires Stone. Stone Memory requires Stone and Tone, I believe. Life Water requires Tree and Water.
* Unlike with other types of arts, there are a lot of spell arts that do things other than damage. Life Water heals. Stone Memory petrifies (though there's also Delta Petra, which does damage plus can petrify, and is easier to learn). Reviva revives a character if that character reaches 0 HP. Guardian Beast gives the target a chance of blocking attacks. Soul Hymn, perhaps the most powerful spell in the game (and rather difficult to learn), grants regeneration and Morale Up (increases damage with weapon and martial arts) to the entire party.
Other tahn the anima, pretty standard, imo.
Posted January 01, 2021

Or, use attacks that use a different resource. (SaGa Frontier 2 is interesting here, because both WP (used for martial/weapon arts) and SP (used for spell/hybrid arts) regenerate a little each round.

(WIth that said, that warrior that's clad in a full set of steel armor and who's using a powerful steel sword isn't going to have much use for SP, or much SP in the first place, and probably won't be regenerating it, either.)
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kohlrak: You say "or," but you're not disagreeing. I'm confused. I'm specifically talking about spells vs physical attacks, and you bring up "WP" and "SP." as if they're different in more than just name.
The difference is this:
* Weapon and martial arts use WP. WP regen is fixed per character, with a 1 point bonus for characters in a certain age range (note that age is dictated by which event you're playing in; it won't change if you don't progress through the game, no matter how long you spend trying to spark arts from Land Urchins).
* Hybrid and spell arts use SP. SP and SP regen *are* affected by equipment. Most equipment gives small amounts, quells give larger amounts, and steel will actually *lower* your SP and SP regen (in addition to weakening spell, but not hybrid, arts via another mechanic).

(Note that the effect of steel on SP and SP regen is clearly visible when you're choosing equipment. Steel weapons do tend to be strong and unbreakable, in exchange for this spell penalty. Also, the effect of steel on anima is significant story-wise, as is mentioned early in Gustave's plot line. (Worth noting that Gustave is special in that he *can't* use magic, unlike every other playable character, so he decides he wants to make a steel sword; all this happens before the first time he sees battle.))
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: Yeah, but i'm talking specifically about the scenario you mentioned. Obviously there are going to be alternative strategies. But since abilities can be equipped secondarily, are you telling me, then your blue mages and revivors could end up being the same characters in this build? I'm trying to figure out the exact tradeoffs for this blue-mage-two-hand-thwom-with-magic-axe build.
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dtgreene: Well, to make good use of the Rune Edge, the Blue Mage spends their secondary on 2-Handed (learned from Knight), allowing double damage (and providing Strength if it would otherwise be low, which is its for the Blue Mage) at the cost of not being able to equip a shield while doing so (which Blue Mages can naturally equip, so the trade-off does matter in this case). However, other characters might have different set-ups, and perhaps other characters use different ways to deal damage.

On the other hand, if you aren't concerned about maximizing the damage of a specific weapon, there are other viable choices for the secondary. Add White Magic or Summon for revival (and Summon also has some really nice general-purpose attack spells, something Blue Magic lacks). Add Spellblade for petrification and MP draining. Add Mix for revival, MP recovery, and many more interesting effects (including a powerful HP drain; the Blue Mage's HP drain spell only restores half the Blue Mage's lost HP when it works).

The whole secondary ability mechanic is one of the great things about Final Fantasy 5, and is one of the main ways it differs from Final Fantasy 3.
Yeah, iv'e found those mechanics interesting. I haven't touched 5, yet, but i've found this seems to be similar to Bravely Default, which i've spent some time with. There are some great combinations, and then there's some ugly ones that just don't work.
Posted January 01, 2021
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dtgreene: One could interpret the LP cost of martial arts and spells as a measure of the character over-exerting themself, using abilities that might be beyond their skills. In RS:MS, you can choose a class for each character and level up skills by spending gems, and the higher your level in the class, the lower the DP/LP costs get for the class's skills. Hence, a skilled character can eliminate the cost, but a less skilled character, or one who is using the skill out of class, needs to worry about the cost.

I note that spells whose LP costs can't be eliminated tend to be really powerful; if you've played Baldur's Gate 2, think along the lines of Time Stop and Project Image.

Also, note that this game also has BP, which starts each battle partially filled and recovers a bit each round (the exact values vary by character; Claudia starts with little but regens it faster than anyone else, while Theodore (who you unfortunately can't keep) is the reverse), and which is needed for anything other than a basic physical attack.
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kohlrak: I'd love to see someone throw hooks and crosses against a moving target and not tire out. So is LP separate from HP entirely, or can you loose LP from getting hit? It would seem entirely strange to me for them to be the same thing.
(For SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, and I believe Romancing SaGa 3 as well; other SaGa games are slightly different here, and Unlimited SaGa is *very* different.)

LP is separate from HP.

If an attack reduces a character to 0 HP, the character will fall unconscious and lose 1 LP. As long as the character's LP remains positive, the character can be revived with a simple healing spell, and will also come back once the battle is over.

Note that LP does not increase as you progress through the game, and that healing spells don't restore LP. Items that restore LP are really rare (in RS:MS, I believe there are only 2 such items in the entire game, one in the final dungeon, and both are single use unless you exploit Phantom Warrior).

When a character reaches 0 LP, in RS:MS, they're removed from the party. In SaGa Frontier, they're not, but will be unusable until you can make it to a place to rest.

A single trip to the inn will restore LP. In SaGa Frontier, characters who aren't mechs (robots) regain LP after every battle they don't take part in (along with the WP/JP everyone gets for not participating in battle (SF1 JP = SF2 SP)). (To compensate, SF1 mechs have more LP than characters of other races.)
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: You say "or," but you're not disagreeing. I'm confused. I'm specifically talking about spells vs physical attacks, and you bring up "WP" and "SP." as if they're different in more than just name.
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dtgreene: The difference is this:
* Weapon and martial arts use WP. WP regen is fixed per character, with a 1 point bonus for characters in a certain age range (note that age is dictated by which event you're playing in; it won't change if you don't progress through the game, no matter how long you spend trying to spark arts from Land Urchins).
* Hybrid and spell arts use SP. SP and SP regen *are* affected by equipment. Most equipment gives small amounts, quells give larger amounts, and steel will actually *lower* your SP and SP regen (in addition to weakening spell, but not hybrid, arts via another mechanic).

(Note that the effect of steel on SP and SP regen is clearly visible when you're choosing equipment. Steel weapons do tend to be strong and unbreakable, in exchange for this spell penalty. Also, the effect of steel on anima is significant story-wise, as is mentioned early in Gustave's plot line. (Worth noting that Gustave is special in that he *can't* use magic, unlike every other playable character, so he decides he wants to make a steel sword; all this happens before the first time he sees battle.))
Yeah, but it's still the same mechanic, but you have additional rules for it.
Posted January 01, 2021
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dtgreene: Well, to make good use of the Rune Edge, the Blue Mage spends their secondary on 2-Handed (learned from Knight), allowing double damage (and providing Strength if it would otherwise be low, which is its for the Blue Mage) at the cost of not being able to equip a shield while doing so (which Blue Mages can naturally equip, so the trade-off does matter in this case). However, other characters might have different set-ups, and perhaps other characters use different ways to deal damage.

On the other hand, if you aren't concerned about maximizing the damage of a specific weapon, there are other viable choices for the secondary. Add White Magic or Summon for revival (and Summon also has some really nice general-purpose attack spells, something Blue Magic lacks). Add Spellblade for petrification and MP draining. Add Mix for revival, MP recovery, and many more interesting effects (including a powerful HP drain; the Blue Mage's HP drain spell only restores half the Blue Mage's lost HP when it works).

The whole secondary ability mechanic is one of the great things about Final Fantasy 5, and is one of the main ways it differs from Final Fantasy 3.
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kohlrak: Yeah, iv'e found those mechanics interesting. I haven't touched 5, yet, but i've found this seems to be similar to Bravely Default, which i've spent some time with. There are some great combinations, and then there's some ugly ones that just don't work.
The Final Fantasy 5 manual actually mentions a couple of those anti-combos.

There is one part where, if a certain character has the Staff of Healing equipped and is berserked, the game will be softlocked. (Note that this isn't likely to happen by accident, unless the player forgets that the character has that weapon equipped, as the boss won't inflect that status in that battle.)
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: I'd love to see someone throw hooks and crosses against a moving target and not tire out. So is LP separate from HP entirely, or can you loose LP from getting hit? It would seem entirely strange to me for them to be the same thing.
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dtgreene: (For SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, and I believe Romancing SaGa 3 as well; other SaGa games are slightly different here, and Unlimited SaGa is *very* different.)

LP is separate from HP.

If an attack reduces a character to 0 HP, the character will fall unconscious and lose 1 LP. As long as the character's LP remains positive, the character can be revived with a simple healing spell, and will also come back once the battle is over.

Note that LP does not increase as you progress through the game, and that healing spells don't restore LP. Items that restore LP are really rare (in RS:MS, I believe there are only 2 such items in the entire game, one in the final dungeon, and both are single use unless you exploit Phantom Warrior).

When a character reaches 0 LP, in RS:MS, they're removed from the party. In SaGa Frontier, they're not, but will be unusable until you can make it to a place to rest.

A single trip to the inn will restore LP. In SaGa Frontier, characters who aren't mechs (robots) regain LP after every battle they don't take part in (along with the WP/JP everyone gets for not participating in battle (SF1 JP = SF2 SP)). (To compensate, SF1 mechs have more LP than characters of other races.)
So, repatedly punching a dragon can make me more dead than getting bit by said dragon?
Posted January 01, 2021
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dtgreene: (For SaGa Frontier and Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song, and I believe Romancing SaGa 3 as well; other SaGa games are slightly different here, and Unlimited SaGa is *very* different.)

LP is separate from HP.

If an attack reduces a character to 0 HP, the character will fall unconscious and lose 1 LP. As long as the character's LP remains positive, the character can be revived with a simple healing spell, and will also come back once the battle is over.

Note that LP does not increase as you progress through the game, and that healing spells don't restore LP. Items that restore LP are really rare (in RS:MS, I believe there are only 2 such items in the entire game, one in the final dungeon, and both are single use unless you exploit Phantom Warrior).

When a character reaches 0 LP, in RS:MS, they're removed from the party. In SaGa Frontier, they're not, but will be unusable until you can make it to a place to rest.

A single trip to the inn will restore LP. In SaGa Frontier, characters who aren't mechs (robots) regain LP after every battle they don't take part in (along with the WP/JP everyone gets for not participating in battle (SF1 JP = SF2 SP)). (To compensate, SF1 mechs have more LP than characters of other races.)
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kohlrak: So, repatedly punching a dragon can make me more dead than getting bit by said dragon?
Punch is not going to make you "more dead". Even if you do spark/glimmer an attack that requires LP to use, the free use of the attack will ignore that cost.

What will make you more dead is if you're over-using abilities that are beyond the character's safe limit; then you may need to worry about over-exerting yourself and running out of LP.

SaGa Frontier 2 has an interesting mechanic in this regard; if you try to use an ability that costs more WP/SP than you have, you will be allowed to use it, but will have to pay 1 LP to do so. (Exception: The game won't let you spend your last LP this way.) SF2 also has another interesting LP feature; a character with at least 2 LP who isn't unconscious can spend one LP for a full heal.

From what I've read and watched, Romancing SaGa 3 has a spell that makes the caster basically invincible and reduces WP/JP costs to 0. The catch is that the character will lose 1 LP from any attack that would have dealt damage, and my understanding is that reaching 0 LP is like RS:MS; the character is removed from the party and must be re-recruited.

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dtgreene: One could interpret the LP cost of martial arts and spells as a measure of the character over-exerting themself, using abilities that might be beyond their skills. In RS:MS, you can choose a class for each character and level up skills by spending gems, and the higher your level in the class, the lower the DP/LP costs get for the class's skills. Hence, a skilled character can eliminate the cost, but a less skilled character, or one who is using the skill out of class, needs to worry about the cost.

I note that spells whose LP costs can't be eliminated tend to be really powerful; if you've played Baldur's Gate 2, think along the lines of Time Stop and Project Image.

Also, note that this game also has BP, which starts each battle partially filled and recovers a bit each round (the exact values vary by character; Claudia starts with little but regens it faster than anyone else, while Theodore (who you unfortunately can't keep) is the reverse), and which is needed for anything other than a basic physical attack.
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kohlrak: I'd love to see someone throw hooks and crosses against a moving target and not tire out. So is LP separate from HP entirely, or can you loose LP from getting hit? It would seem entirely strange to me for them to be the same thing.
In RS:MS, BP costs play the role of "getting tired"; LP costs are a more extreme form of exertion. A character who runs out of BP may need to use weaker attacks (or just defend) to build it back up, while a character who used all their LP has basically worked themself to death.
Post edited January 01, 2021 by dtgreene
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: So, repatedly punching a dragon can make me more dead than getting bit by said dragon?
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dtgreene: Punch is not going to make you "more dead". Even if you do spark/glimmer an attack that requires LP to use, the free use of the attack will ignore that cost.

What will make you more dead is if you're over-using abilities that are beyond the character's safe limit; then you may need to worry about over-exerting yourself and running out of LP.
Ok, so if you level up enough it doesn't matter, but it's still worth mentioning that if your skills aren't good enough we have this manifestation.
SaGa Frontier 2 has an interesting mechanic in this regard; if you try to use an ability that costs more WP/SP than you have, you will be allowed to use it, but will have to pay 1 LP to do so. (Exception: The game won't let you spend your last LP this way.) SF2 also has another interesting LP feature; a character with at least 2 LP who isn't unconscious can spend one LP for a full heal.

From what I've read and watched, Romancing SaGa 3 has a spell that makes the caster basically invincible and reduces WP/JP costs to 0. The catch is that the character will lose 1 LP from any attack that would have dealt damage, and my understanding is that reaching 0 LP is like RS:MS; the character is removed from the party and must be re-recruited.

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kohlrak: I'd love to see someone throw hooks and crosses against a moving target and not tire out. So is LP separate from HP entirely, or can you loose LP from getting hit? It would seem entirely strange to me for them to be the same thing.
In RS:MS, BP costs play the role of "getting tired"; LP costs are a more extreme form of exertion. A character who runs out of BP may need to use weaker attacks (or just defend) to build it back up, while a character who used all their LP has basically worked themself to death.
From a mathematical point, this sounds interesting, but i foresee alot of people not liking the idea from a lore point of view. Just does't come off as making sense. Final Fantasy has implicitly went the route of suggesting that 0HP means "pinch" not "death," but to this extreme it still seems a bit far.
Posted January 01, 2021

SaGa Frontier 2 has an interesting mechanic in this regard; if you try to use an ability that costs more WP/SP than you have, you will be allowed to use it, but will have to pay 1 LP to do so. (Exception: The game won't let you spend your last LP this way.) SF2 also has another interesting LP feature; a character with at least 2 LP who isn't unconscious can spend one LP for a full heal.

From what I've read and watched, Romancing SaGa 3 has a spell that makes the caster basically invincible and reduces WP/JP costs to 0. The catch is that the character will lose 1 LP from any attack that would have dealt damage, and my understanding is that reaching 0 LP is like RS:MS; the character is removed from the party and must be re-recruited.

In RS:MS, BP costs play the role of "getting tired"; LP costs are a more extreme form of exertion. A character who runs out of BP may need to use weaker attacks (or just defend) to build it back up, while a character who used all their LP has basically worked themself to death.
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kohlrak: From a mathematical point, this sounds interesting, but i foresee alot of people not liking the idea from a lore point of view. Just does't come off as making sense. Final Fantasy has implicitly went the route of suggesting that 0HP means "pinch" not "death," but to this extreme it still seems a bit far.
It might be interesting to lock at how SaGa 1 and 2 handled characters reaching 0 HP.

SaGa 1: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Dead", according to the game. You can revive the character at the House of Life for 100 kero, but that uses up one of the character's hearts, and a character starts the game with 3 hearts. Run out of hearts, and you can't revive the character this way. You *can* buy more hearts, but they cost 10,000 kero each, and the revive item (1 use) costs 15,000 kero. There *is* a skill that can revive, but it's only found on top-tier monsters (and I don't remember if it's just one specific monster that gets it), so it's not particularly accessible. Alternatively, if a character other than the first one you create dies, you can go to the guild and retire the character, creating a new one in their place. (Note that characters created in later guilds start out stronger than those created at the start.)

SaGa 2: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Stunned", according to the game. Said character is out for the battle, but will be back alive with 1 HP afterwords. There is no limit to the number of times this can happen to a character (good thing, as there are no guilds; you create your party at the start of the game and there's no changing it). Mid-battle resurrection is really unusual; in the Game Boy version, there's only one effect that can revive, you get 1 use (which does recover at the inn), and there's only one boss fight (not the final boss) that you can use it in. (The DS version adds a staff of revival, which can revive with full HP and has 15 uses; it's actually handy to give it to a robot, who will have 7 recharging uses of it, but note that the method of getting this item will allow you to get as many as you want for free, as long as you are willing to take the time.)

SaGa 3 (GB) is like SaGa 2, except that mid-battle revives are more readily available; you can even use Elixirs (buyable early, but expensive) to revive during battle. SaGa 3 DS changed the game mechanics drastically, but Elixirs still revive, and revive magic is available earlier (and there's even a spell that revives everyone). (On the other hand, Elixirs are less useful in the DS version in general because non-monsters don't have anything other than HP to be restored; in the original, MP, which all non-robots use for spells (robots can't use spells that cost MP) is restored by Elixirs.)
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: From a mathematical point, this sounds interesting, but i foresee alot of people not liking the idea from a lore point of view. Just does't come off as making sense. Final Fantasy has implicitly went the route of suggesting that 0HP means "pinch" not "death," but to this extreme it still seems a bit far.
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dtgreene: It might be interesting to lock at how SaGa 1 and 2 handled characters reaching 0 HP.

SaGa 1: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Dead", according to the game. You can revive the character at the House of Life for 100 kero, but that uses up one of the character's hearts, and a character starts the game with 3 hearts. Run out of hearts, and you can't revive the character this way. You *can* buy more hearts, but they cost 10,000 kero each, and the revive item (1 use) costs 15,000 kero. There *is* a skill that can revive, but it's only found on top-tier monsters (and I don't remember if it's just one specific monster that gets it), so it's not particularly accessible. Alternatively, if a character other than the first one you create dies, you can go to the guild and retire the character, creating a new one in their place. (Note that characters created in later guilds start out stronger than those created at the start.)

SaGa 2: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Stunned", according to the game. Said character is out for the battle, but will be back alive with 1 HP afterwords. There is no limit to the number of times this can happen to a character (good thing, as there are no guilds; you create your party at the start of the game and there's no changing it). Mid-battle resurrection is really unusual; in the Game Boy version, there's only one effect that can revive, you get 1 use (which does recover at the inn), and there's only one boss fight (not the final boss) that you can use it in. (The DS version adds a staff of revival, which can revive with full HP and has 15 uses; it's actually handy to give it to a robot, who will have 7 recharging uses of it, but note that the method of getting this item will allow you to get as many as you want for free, as long as you are willing to take the time.)

SaGa 3 (GB) is like SaGa 2, except that mid-battle revives are more readily available; you can even use Elixirs (buyable early, but expensive) to revive during battle. SaGa 3 DS changed the game mechanics drastically, but Elixirs still revive, and revive magic is available earlier (and there's even a spell that revives everyone). (On the other hand, Elixirs are less useful in the DS version in general because non-monsters don't have anything other than HP to be restored; in the original, MP, which all non-robots use for spells (robots can't use spells that cost MP) is restored by Elixirs.)
Any idea how it was described in Japanese? I tend to go with the mentality that most games, especially older ones, have their canonicity based in their original language whenever a conflict arises. There have been exceptions to this (Like starfox, where a typo turned into a whole new planet in the canon), however. I remember how Pokemon handled "fainting" differently in Japanese, with it neither implying death nor survival (which then makes sense why you couldn't capture a fainted legendary).
Post edited January 01, 2021 by kohlrak
Posted January 01, 2021
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dtgreene: It might be interesting to lock at how SaGa 1 and 2 handled characters reaching 0 HP.

SaGa 1: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Dead", according to the game. You can revive the character at the House of Life for 100 kero, but that uses up one of the character's hearts, and a character starts the game with 3 hearts. Run out of hearts, and you can't revive the character this way. You *can* buy more hearts, but they cost 10,000 kero each, and the revive item (1 use) costs 15,000 kero. There *is* a skill that can revive, but it's only found on top-tier monsters (and I don't remember if it's just one specific monster that gets it), so it's not particularly accessible. Alternatively, if a character other than the first one you create dies, you can go to the guild and retire the character, creating a new one in their place. (Note that characters created in later guilds start out stronger than those created at the start.)

SaGa 2: A character who reaches 0 HP is "Stunned", according to the game. Said character is out for the battle, but will be back alive with 1 HP afterwords. There is no limit to the number of times this can happen to a character (good thing, as there are no guilds; you create your party at the start of the game and there's no changing it). Mid-battle resurrection is really unusual; in the Game Boy version, there's only one effect that can revive, you get 1 use (which does recover at the inn), and there's only one boss fight (not the final boss) that you can use it in. (The DS version adds a staff of revival, which can revive with full HP and has 15 uses; it's actually handy to give it to a robot, who will have 7 recharging uses of it, but note that the method of getting this item will allow you to get as many as you want for free, as long as you are willing to take the time.)

SaGa 3 (GB) is like SaGa 2, except that mid-battle revives are more readily available; you can even use Elixirs (buyable early, but expensive) to revive during battle. SaGa 3 DS changed the game mechanics drastically, but Elixirs still revive, and revive magic is available earlier (and there's even a spell that revives everyone). (On the other hand, Elixirs are less useful in the DS version in general because non-monsters don't have anything other than HP to be restored; in the original, MP, which all non-robots use for spells (robots can't use spells that cost MP) is restored by Elixirs.)
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kohlrak: Any idea how it was described in Japanese? I tend to go with the mentality that most games, especially older ones, have their canonicity based in their original language whenever a conflict arises. There have been exceptions to this (Like starfox, where a typo turned into a whole new planet in the canon), however. I remember how Pokemon handled "fainting" differently in Japanese, with it neither implying death nor survival (which then makes sense why you couldn't capture a fainted legendary).
Don't know off hand, but the Final Fantasy Legend 2 (English SaGa 2) translation did have some interesting (and funny) "translations" in its Japan-themed world:
* In the Japanese version, there's some illegal opium trade going on in this world. Of course, Nintendo of America would not let that fly, so in FFL2, "for some reason, bananas are not allowed in this world". (Unfortunately, the fan translation of the DS version doesn't handle this well; it just talks about illegal goods without specifying, so it's not nearly as funny.)
* There's a classroom that, at one point, has students. There is a bird that, in the Japanese version, says the English words "please do not play this game", but written in katakana. This joke obviously does not translate, so in FFL2 they made up a new joke: "HELLO! HOW ARE YOU! I am learning to speak English. ... How come you can understand me?" The DS remake, untranslated, did something interesting, as the line here is "Please do not this game..." (and then just says it in Japanese); of course, to get the joke, you need to understand that verbs go at the end of the sentence in Japanese, but not in English. (Wondering if this is a common mistake that Japanese learners of English make.)

SaGa 1 has some interesting translation differences, though not all of them were necessary the way these SaGa 2 ones were (though at least one of them was).

Anyway, I need to drink an Elixier (FFL2 typo) to recover my skill uses, so I will end this post here.
Posted January 01, 2021
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kohlrak: You seem very, very conflicted. Do you have similar problems with games such as starfox?
Never heard of Starfox so far. A quick search says it's a series of space shooters? Other than Elite Plus back in the day, never touched any of those and don't want to.

My ideal RPG, and therefore game, would likely have a huge open world, real time with pause, 3rd person view with a very controllable camera, with a mix of action and pure RPG mechanics that would allow the player to make up for the character's shortcomings to a fair extent early on and the character to let the player mostly just be along for the ride late on, with that world feeling alive and like you're really living in it, offering full escapism, oozing atmosphere and with a great story and writing and memorable characters (if voice acting can be at Bloodlines level, awesome, but otherwise would probably rather do without and stick to just text).
Either fully single player character or at least expecting some players to play it as such and not reduce the experience with potential companions if you mostly keep them in a safe place and return to interact with them now and then, and maybe take them to a number of locations where it's obvious they need to also go.
With training through use and no restrictions or limitations, starting with a rather average character in a hostile setting out to get them but, with enough time and dedication put into it, being able to end up a fully maxed godlike being that'd thoroughly crush anything, and being able to get there just as a result of training, so that can be done alongside exploration and much of the main story may be left for later, so it'd be possible to fully explore nearly the entire game world, clear almost all of that bar a few "dungeon" areas where enemies would respawn whenever you enter to allow for practicing, and once you get to that point of dominating that world that at first you had to use every trick to barely survive the starting areas of, be able to experience and enjoy the rest of the story as well.
And get to make the choices deciding how it moves forward while fully knowing what the consequences will be, and of course with the choices I'd want to make being along the options, so I'd be able to steer the story precisely in the direction I want.
And no randomness or other such variations that would mean needing to reload if wanting the best outcome (or stuff) or, worse, replaying to see everything. I mean, sure, it'd require replaying to steer the story in different directions, but if you know where you want it to go, it should be a matter of fully experiencing that world and that story, immersing yourself in it for probably a few hundred hours if you'd go for that full training (while probably allowing someone who just wants to get to the end and will accept the character's limitations and use companions for help to finish in a fraction of the time, so play it several times in the time I'd take to go through it once if they so desire), rising from unremarkable to the godlike being nothing can touch (in terms of power, no need for the character becoming a god or even some great leader story-wise), getting the outcome you desire and steering the story through the most desirable points on the way to it as well (not really necessary for that outcome to have the fate of the entire world on the table, may be more localized or even more personal stories too), finish it with the satisfaction of it all, perfect character, perfect outcome, close the book on it and move on to something else.

Huh, that was quite a mind dump. Would likely put it differently if I'd try again. And it should be said that I'd play one such game every few years probably, with other stuff in between, but these would be the most memorable ones.
Posted January 01, 2021
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Cavalary: once you get to that point of dominating that world that at first you had to use every trick to barely survive the starting areas of, be able to experience and enjoy the rest of the story as well.
Personally, I'd [refer it if the part of the game where you need every trick to survive comes later in the game, after you've had a chance to develop your character, learn some neat abilities, and you (the player) have learned how the game works. The enemies in the beginning area should be easy for even new characters to survive and get some early practice before they venture forth to other areas.

I really don't like it when a game has an inverted difficulty curve. The game should get harder, not easier, as you progress.
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