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tajemniczybeton: Stop linking to that defamation everywhere. Żołnierze Wyklęci were both anti-nazi and anti-communist and have national holiday dedicated to them in Poland.
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Breja: And these people have nothing to do with them. If there is any defamation here, its by people who use memory of those heroes for their political agenda.
But article mentions them like this:
"(Żołnierze wyklęci, historically associated with the Freikorps)"
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KasperHviid: Perhaps, I must admit I'm not entirely sure about that one. But even if we ignore this one, that doesn't change the fact that the guy supports the anti-muslim hate group Polska Liga Obrony (Polish Defence League).
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realkman666: You'd have to be pretty blind to ignore the evils of Islam in this world.
Wow, just... wow.

Really?

I, for one, don't ignore the evils of fundamentalism in this world. But, having read the Bible, the Koran and the Torah (as well as a certain number of other religious books), I fail to see the evils of Islam in this world.

Back to the topic.

This game does nothing to me. Uninteresting at the highest level. But to each his own, right? But if that game is a way for extremist groups to broadcast their nauseous message, I say "kill it with fire".
Post edited October 18, 2014 by xa_chan
A timely game with #GG currently raging. No doubt it'll harm the industry's image but I still support its release and I'll likely play it. Fact is, you have hundreds of similar examples in books, movies and music. Games should not stand as an exception for limiting creative licence.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Garrison72
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realkman666: You'd have to be pretty blind to ignore the evils of Islam in this world.
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xa_chan: Wow, just... wow.

Really?

I, for one, don't ignore the evils of fundamentalism in this world. But, having read the Bible, the Koran and the Torah (as well as a certain number of other religious books), I fail to see the evils of Islam in this world.
Oh, someone is shocked. How original. Not seeing is pretty easy, isn't it?
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So, just because you don't like the game no one else should be allowed to play it, right? Amazing.
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Thunderstone: I didn't consider that the guy was killing a woman, I was thinking about the tastelessness of slaughtering of people in general.
Yes, i know, i just mentioned it because of all the radical feminism going on in gaming lately.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Neobr10
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Images invoke emotion. Period. Whether they are real or not. I see a lot of arguments stating that "it's just animated pixels" but those arguments are on a false basis. To assert that one must be deranged to be fundamentally disturbed because it is a game, lol are either trolling or really don't understand how the human brain works and responds.

Ever breathe heavy after playing through a particularly exciting or tight portion of a game? That's not from physical exertion. It's from the endorphins and adrenalin being released into your blood, preparing you for a real fight or flight response. Not a complete adrenalin rush like you'd get in a bar fight or falling down a particularly steep hill, but still a small boost to your senses in preparation for an event that's not even really happening to you.

The brain takes patterns it sees and empathizes with it. Our brains are constantly putting us in other people's shoes. It's why you flinch when a footballer breaks a leg in a gruesome way, or even touch your own leg. It's why pornography is so appealing. In the end, it doesn't matter if the images are real or not, as long as they are real enough. The "real people" you see in ISIS videos or in a sporting event are no more real to you than their pixellated brethren on your computer monitor because they are separated by the same veil of a screen. You don't know who any of the people are. In many videos you can't even see their faces or hear their voices.

However in a game like this that takes realistic representations of people (by not having them do unrealistic things and having them portrayed realistically) we are able to sympathize and empathize with them at a base level. It's not unlike getting aroused by a game graphically depicting sex.

I just want to debunk that argument now, because it is made on the false pretense that people who are disturbed by graphic imagery of killing innocent people portrayed by game models can't distinguish between fantasy and reality. In truth, the conscious ability to do so has nothing to do with how uncomfortable these images make people feel.
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Arteveld: So if someone writes they're nazis, that makes them nazis? That's absurd.
Well, the press is calling anyone who defends ethics in gaming journalism a misogynist, so, yeah, that's how things work these days. Found someone who doesn't agree with you? Call him a racist, nazist, misogynist, homophobic and anything else you can think of. That's much easier to do than coming up with counter arguments.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Neobr10
GoG needs to sell this game. In light of the recent attacks on gaming they need to demonstrate that creative freedom is alive in the industry. If they don't, then they can refuse any other game on political grounds.
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Garrison72: GoG needs to sell this game. In light of the recent attacks on gaming they need to demonstrate that creative freedom is alive in the industry. If they don't, then they can refuse any other game on political grounds.
Agreed, As distasteful as this game may be for some. I say we need games of all types available
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Yummlick: To all people arguing that "it's just a game" and "these are not real people":

By your "logic" it would be OK to make and distribute games where you're playing as a child rapist or some nazi death camp manager. Because "Hey! It's not real and I'm enjoying playing this! What's your problem with me having some fun?".
The first example you mentioned actually exists and it's called Rapelay. There's a game that kind of comes close to your second example and it's called Ethnic Cleansing (you have to kill black people, latins and i think that there are also jews you have to kill, but i'm not sure).

Yes, i also found both games to be disgusting, much more than Hatred (which i personally couldn't see a problem with, it looks very similar to Postal, just darker), but censorship is something i will never support. The problem when we start banning "disgusting" games is finding out where to draw the line. Sure, something as harmless as Mario will never be banned, but what about things like Carmaggedon, Manhunt, Postal and GTA? I know many people who find these 4 games to be disgusting. Where do we draw the line here? What is ok and what isn't? I think that any kind of censorship is extremely dangerous. First, we're banning Hatred, the next day we're banning GTA.
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Flesh420.613: Really people? Hollywood produces and promotes worse movies. Hatred looks like a blast to play, in more ways than one.
Definitely, i've seen movies MUCH, MUCH worse than any game out there. Movies get a free pass, games don't. Go figure.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Neobr10
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Yummlick: To all people arguing that "it's just a game" and "these are not real people":

By your "logic" it would be OK to make and distribute games where you're playing as a child rapist or some nazi death camp manager. Because "Hey! It's not real and I'm enjoying playing this! What's your problem with me having some fun?".
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Neobr10: The first example you mentioned actually exists and it's called Rapelay. There's a game that kind of comes close to your second example and it's called Ethnic Cleansing (you have to kill black people, latins and i think that there are also jews you have to kill, but i'm not sure).

Yes, i also found both games to be disgusting, much more than Hatred (which i personally couldn't see a problem with, it looks very similar to Postal, just darker), but censorship is something i will never support. The problem when we start banning "disgusting" games is finding out where to draw the line. Sure, something as harmless as Mario will never be banned, but what about things like Carmaggedon, Manhunt, Postal and GTA? I know many people who find these 4 games to be disgusting. Where do we draw the line here? What is ok and what isn't? I think that any kind of censorship is extremely dangerous. First, we're banning Hatred, the next day we're banning GTA.
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Flesh420.613: Really people? Hollywood produces and promotes worse movies. Hatred looks like a blast to play, in more ways than one.
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Neobr10: Definitely, i've seen movies MUCH, MUCH worse than any game out there. Movies get a free pass, games don't. Go figure.
Keep in mind that in Ethnic Cleansing the Jews were portrayed as the bad guys - Israel was trying to take over the world in that game. Typical neo-nazi insanity, really.

In Hatred there appears to be no heroes nor villains; just a monstrous man doing horrific things.
Releasing a Nazi game? Bad idea!
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Neobr10: So, just because you don't like the game no one else should be allowed to play it, right? Amazing.
So, just because you don't like child porn no one else should be allowed to view it, right? Amazing.

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Yummlick: To all people arguing that "it's just a game" and "these are not real people":

By your "logic" it would be OK to make and distribute games where you're playing as a child rapist or some nazi death camp manager. Because "Hey! It's not real and I'm enjoying playing this! What's your problem with me having some fun?".
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Neobr10: The first example you mentioned actually exists and it's called Rapelay. There's a game that kind of comes close to your second example and it's called Ethnic Cleansing (you have to kill black people, latins and i think that there are also jews you have to kill, but i'm not sure).

Yes, i also found both games to be disgusting, much more than Hatred (which i personally couldn't see a problem with, it looks very similar to Postal, just darker), but censorship is something i will never support. The problem when we start banning "disgusting" games is finding out where to draw the line. Sure, something as harmless as Mario will never be banned, but what about things like Carmaggedon, Manhunt, Postal and GTA? I know many people who find these 4 games to be disgusting. Where do we draw the line here? What is ok and what isn't? I think that any kind of censorship is extremely dangerous. First, we're banning Hatred, the next day we're banning GTA.
Somehow I don't see games you mentioned being sold on GOG or anywhere else. Why is that?
And difference between Hatred and Manhunt or GTA is obvious. It's called "context".

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http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/no_for_hatred_on_gog
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Garrison72: GoG needs to sell this game. In light of the recent attacks on gaming they need to demonstrate that creative freedom is alive in the industry. If they don't, then they can refuse any other game on political grounds.
Please, let's not make THIS game the banner of "creative freedom". There is nothing creative about it. It's just cheap schock immagery to generate buzz in the media and appeal to immature people with bad taste. And there is nothing political about it either.

I honestly think there was too much time devoted to this game here already, by myself too. It does not deserve it. The best we can do is ignore it from now on, kill it with silence, as we should have from the beginning, no matter where it is sold.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Breja
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xa_chan: Wow, just... wow.

Really?

I, for one, don't ignore the evils of fundamentalism in this world. But, having read the Bible, the Koran and the Torah (as well as a certain number of other religious books), I fail to see the evils of Islam in this world.
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realkman666: Oh, someone is shocked. How original. Not seeing is pretty easy, isn't it?
maybe...

certainly as easy as "seeing only what I want to see and ignoring fact", if I judge by your behaviour.