Yep, my apologies, I wrote it up backwards.

Point still stands, though.

Hey, I painstakingly translated that with Google Translate!

By painstakingly, I checked that Google Translate would spit out roughly the right thing if asked to translate it back. :P

Intelligo, intelligo, intelligo.

Thanks for getting that clear, although I won't "lynch" one if the other is town. You put too much power on me. All I can do is voting, and the rest of the players would need to agree with me (big if), and all that if nothing else happens on Day 2 that makes me change my mind. I'll repeat it: I want agent's claim or him being investigated.

I AM SO SORRY!

I meant to say, Agent is NOT ruining the game for me. I left the word out by mistake as i was half-asleep and I deeply and sincerely apologize. Please forgive me.

Alas we tried to keep the wool pulled over their eyes, guess our game play has degraded and we are no longer worthy. Although I was tempted to jump around with signal flags if it took much longer as it thought it was pretty obvious we were taking in code the whole time.

*sigh* Woe is me! *much weeping and gnashing of teeth*

Okay, so. You keep bringing up that this Lift is a Town Lift. Why? What do you see in Lift that I can't see?

In my experience, Lift is the kind of person who, if playing as scum, has already won the game once he got people to trust him. When you Town clear scum Lift, then he has successfully backstabbed you before he could even do anything. I think that it's best to share how is he different from Supernatural Scum Lift, or SH Scum Lift, and how is he similar to say, Captain Sapphire Town Lift, so everyone is on the same page.

Ummm from my memory scum lift is a little more... acquiescent? More willing to be reasonable? And Town life is like

*puts head down, charges*

"WHOOOOOOARGGGGGGGH"

Pretty sure I scummed with him in one of the most recent GOG games I played and that's how we managed things

I'd have to look it up though

I dunno, it's not the greatest read ever, just going with the gut here

Note to all.......All below posts are replied to in the order I read them and without much peeking ahead, so things might've changed in other player's stances or my own as I go along....please bear that in mind as you read the below:
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Maybe any potential cop cannot be protected, or even help much, but(if we have one) then it's better than nothing I think.

And if town lynch town by accident it gives scum two free kills...how is that better?

IMO going for lynches should be done once town has more info and stuff to make reads on AND the player pool is smaller/scum are more likely to be lynched when someone is picked for lynch.

I already voted before on some I strongly suspect, and saw it was likely going nowhere(at the time)...if someone I strongly suspect gets high enough and closer to lynch MAYBE i'd vote....else if the wagons go nowhere by deadline it'd be the same as voting nolynch.

I dunno about the others(I only keep sparse notes as note taking is new to me as per my play style, and sometimes forget stuff I read a day or so ago), but as for me: even without voting much or even atm for anyone I have still made my suspects list known if people want to read back on some of my prior posts.
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And we could likely get the same from analyzing the night kill and who voted what before then.

Who said I wanted us to no lynch every "day" or that people would do so because it was done once? Also(as I keep saying) which is better and gives us more time to find scum? Two dead town possibly per day or one?

I am guessing(could be wrong though) OP likely added power roles to the game.....just a hunch, though.

This can be seen as town trying to help town, but also you (if scum) trying to get a mislynch pushed through and give scum an advantage....same as my play can be seen as bad town play...you know that right?

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To all: I will likely think on my vote as soon as I catch up on all posts and reply a bit more....I will post this for now, though, to show I am working on catching up and so as to not go over the character limit.

(Also I did a reply to post 309 but botched the brackets so I have to redo that bit in a bit...will post my reply to that, some more replies, and maybe change my vote in an hour or so)

Votus Conputatio

agent 3 - RWarehall, Lift, SirPrimalform
Lift 3 - Pooka, agent, ConsulCaesar
ConsulCaesar 3 - joppo, Carradice, yogsloth
Microfish 1 - trent
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
trent 1 - Joe

No-lynch 1 - GameRager

Everyone else - 0
Not voting - Micro

14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.

When you see a vote count, please check that your name is against the right person. Let me know if it isn't.

No. We couldn't. A night kill doesn't have a train to analyze. We don't see who is responsible for that death. A mis-lynch can be analyzed. You can see who pushed how hard, who had good reasons to do so and who just tagged along because it was convenient. In this way patterns emerge.

But without the flip and wagon, you would be in the same situation on D2 as you are on D1. So why would you be willing without being sure then?
And here's the catch: you can NEVER be sure in this game. If we want to have a chance at winning, we have to take risks and we have to lynch. It's the main weapon of Town. So, seemingly paradoxically, two dead are better on D1 than only one dead from a NK. Of course, lynching scum would be better than lynching a Townie. Just as a hypothetical Doctor protecting the NK target would be better than him not managing to do so. But no-lynch is worse than a mislynch.

No, this is completely faction independent. That's a simple game fact gathered from experience. You can ask every experienced Mafia player. No-lynch is bad for Town. Especially on D1. ... Well, actually all the experienced Mafia players already told you so. Perhaps that's a sign that you should listen and not be stubborn?

And no, your play not only can be seen as bad play. It just is bad play. At least if you are Town, which I still assume. Even though you keep promoting a no-lynch, which is anti-Town. So far I put your insistence on this point down to inexperience and stubbornness.

Actually I did think like you do in my first game and proposed no-lynch as well. But I was quickly convinced that it's a bad idea by thinking the game mechanics through.

To all: I am still reading/replying, but I am up to post 324 so far.....as for post 309's reply: It might seem a bit wonky as I pre post edited it and inserted it here due to messing up the formatting earlier(brackets were missing in one spot).

To micro: Sorry for formatting it as I did....the forum wouldn't let me correct the braket and repost it as is....all posts bits correspond to my reply bits as numbered.

To everyone else: I will re vote if I feel the need to as soon as I get through and reply to all replies I feel the need or desire to reply to.
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1. I was more against lynching him not matter what kind of town he is(as it's one less town on our side), but agreed.

2. Yes town is on my list as well, BUT if either Lift or Agent get lynched I think the other should be investigated(if we have a cop lurking in the game on our side) "overnight" rather than lynched...what do you think?

3. I still think voting and the risk of potentially lynching town is a bit too high atm....but them's just my two cents....take them as you will.

As said before many times, if we mislynch a fellow town we'd be down 2 town instead of 1...that's why I voted as I did and why I have stuck by it so far.

5. I didn't say I thought agent was cop, just that IF we have a cop then they should investigate one of the two(if we no lynch) or the remaining of the two(if one got lynched)....sorry if I confused you with that line of reasoning somehow. :)

6. I often explain myself due to my play style leading a good number to assume i'm scum in most games, so that people know and remember(when posting/making decisions) that it is a part of every game I play...that way I can maybe stick around a bit longer and play with everyone & not be lynched by fellow town in nearly every game I also play as town.

7. Now that I have read a bit further, it seems a lynch on agent is near certain....I might change it...gonna reply a bit more first, though.
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That is partially why the both of them are in my top suspects list atm.
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I agree, and if I do put a vote on him I do hope he is actually scum, else I will be looking into every other who voted him and pushed for it(and I expect others to suspect me as well for hesitating so long if he is scum as that's proper town play imo).

Also nice breakdown of your reads.....it is appreciated.
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I disagree...removing someone one thinks is town to remove "distractions" is a waste of one more town that can find/vote for scum and give us an edge in numbers over scum.


That's if they are believed, and even if they are they'd likely be the next night's NK unless we have a PR to block said NK.

Agreed that it could help draw away a NK from another townie, though, but(to me) the cost seems too high(two townies down, instead of one, as I have said to others).
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Tbh I want both Lift and Agent to live till the next day in case both are over zealous town just playing as they want to/feel it's best to.....but if one gets lynched it takes one off the list of targets for any potential cop to check into, if nothing else.

Also at least it is one of my top suspects atm...this alone is partially making me contemplate voting them as well & then analyzing the wagon afterwards.

So do you expect a wagon to build on them or is this just a no lynch/throwaway vote?

Also if serious could you explain in more detail/refresh my memory why you voted for/suspect them?
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*Done to Post 324....might need 40 minutes or so to read/reply to the rest and get my thought in order re: maybe revoting* (Not a vote, OP)

Aren't there PRs in mafia games who can watch to see who NKd someone if they watched a certain person that day/night?

If that's the case then there's a slight chance we'd see who did the NK. Barring that we could analyze who voted what and who posted/said what the previous "day" & also look into who interacted with that NKd person as well....so it's not like we'd have nothing to go on.

As long as the data is read correctly, then I agree.

If you may have noticed I like to play it safe usually(well most times anyways) and sometimes am indecisive.....I just don't want us to lose any town unnecessarily.

It may be a bit stubborn but it is how I like to play as it makes the game more enjoyable for me and seems to make more sense.....when I hear veteran players say "x is good play" and "y is bad play" and to "just trust them" it turns me off more from possibly listening...know what I mean?

Also yeah i'm pulling a partial scene play, but at least I play without the assumption that others not playing as I do are automatically scum as he seemed to do in the SH game.

Convinced....key word....in life I noticed there are many things people think are right/wrong if enough people think the same way. I tend to follow my feelings/gut rather than just go along with what is "best" to do as said by others.

If that makes me seem less town/a good player by doing so, then so be it....but I want to have fun playing and be myself rather than something i'm not.
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All the above said, I am not opposed fully to a lynch if it's one I strongly suspect and there is a good chance they will be lynched......if one of my top picks gets to L-2 I will vote, or around that point...otherwise i'd rather not vote someone who either is on my list but who might not get to lynch or vote to lynch someone who isn't on my list that is close to lynch.
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To all: Done for now....will watch the votes as we approach deadline and IF one of my picks gets close to lynch i'll likely cast a new vote then.

(To OP: Not a vote)

Also: If anyone has any questions for me or replies to my replies/posts I will be online for the next several hours....later all.

Remind me again real quick who those top picks are...?

Lift for the insistence on LAL before and his back/forth recently with agent, agent for his silly claims and his back/forth with Lift, you for your silly claim and some other things I forget atm(but Lift/Agent seem more suspect to me than you), and Trent I think(would need to check notes, old posts, etc for the reasons for that and to see if anything else caught my eye).

That is my main list atm, and I think any of the above should either be investigated(in that order as above) if we have a cop/etc or lynched if we don't have a cop/etc.