bump

I'm caught up. There's not much I can say regarding the arguments that have been put forward recently, mostly because I'm tired and I'm struggling to follow them... If there's anything anyone's asked/brought against me specifically that I've forgotten please remind me!

So let's do a list of everybody on the scale of 1-to-scum from memory.

SirP - claimed. Blocked flub who's a fairly uncontroversial choice. (Not sure about the logic though! You think he's neutral so you want to prevent whatever he might be up to (what are you thinking? Cultist? What other neutrals have scary powers?) Surely the first aim of a town roleblocker should be to prevent the night kill. Hm. Not sure about this.) 7
Adalia/Bookwyrm - 7. Some scummy logic? Unhelpful voting or refusing-to-vote at the end of day one? Damn I should go and look this over again before I post this because I don't think any of that is right... THANKS JOE
ZFR - I believe the claim, not unreservedly. 3
Bler - I've been reading still with the eyes of "this is a townie player" I think there's been a few things I'm not sure about, but can't think what they are - 4
Hypersomniac - 5 - tricky to read. More hotheaded in defense than I was expecting. Tempting to see ZFR/Cristi/Hypersomniac scum team. But I don't hold out much hope. Hm... but the argument has seemed to be most forceful in refuting, not-entirely-logically, Lift's proposal that stalling till last minute was deliberate to protect speeding lunchwagons. At least I can recall that argument, and it's passion interested me.
LIFTHRABBIT in capital letters for some reason - 8 Still tempted to name rabbit as scum. A few people have mentioned that they think Lift's scummy it would be nice to find out if they're right.
Cristi Gee - 6 . I don't know?? Accused of being absent in argument, if not in presence (if you understand me). Frustrating that we failed to lynch. Odd that Hypersomniac claims he still wouldn't have lunched her (esp with the recently discovered quote "I won't let there be nolynch or whatever I'm Hypersomniac me."
Damnatio - 4 Leaning town don't reall know why. Not heard from him in a while it's probably that
Flub - ?? dammit flub.
ELE - ummm let's say 6. Not happy with her choice to vote SirP instead of ZFR but haven't really logiced that through with my new ZFR-is-town brain. I dunno, sorry.


There. Probably not all that helpful but I need to go to bed and this might help me start getting some ideas back together.

Vitek - 1 <3<3<3

It's like I summoned you with my joke.

lol

Serial killers are the ones that sprang to mind when I wrote that, but who knows what crazy shit is lurking. I had four suspects going into night, Flub was the one who really grabbed my attention towards the end of the day. I think he's up to something.

In fact I suggest we

brig Flubbucket

so I'm not distracted by his anti-town-ness.

WyrmYou definitely bears some of the blame:

Emphasis mine.

I'm wondering why he(you) left his vote on an a wagon that obviously wasn't going anywhere when he wasn't planning to come back before the end. That was basically a vote for a no lynch.

A lot of the other problems that went towards the lack of lynch were plausibly accidental but this seems knowing and deliberate.

You are dangerously underestimating cristigale as a player if you actually think that scum!her would not be prepared for the case she's on the chopping block at EoD, and your post #399 suggests that you don't; you actually say that she's a strong scum player. If that holds true, do you really think she'd drop the ball this badly this game as your current assumption suggests?


Who's wriggling? Going over our exchanges, it's you who's dodging my arguments when they point out holes and contradictions in your narrative; you've basically gone fingers in your ears, and "la la la la la la la, not listening; I said you're scum, and that's it, la la la la la la la".

Want some more proof? You conveniently keep leaving out what the actual point of my post $602 was, to make me look as if I was just sitting there twiddling my thumbs, and waiting for time to run out. Here, let me quote it for you [emphasis added], though I'm sure you'll just going to ignore it. Again. For the nth time now. In those "less than 5min" something quite alarming was taking shape, and my brain focused on it for a few moments in a critical and time sensitive situation. How absurd of me to try and weigh it all!


This is right out the gate. Bookwyrm627 is talking specifically about scum communication/collaboration, and how throwing a wrench to that doesn't hurt town on the same, yet you make an argument that ignores the context that's clearly set in Bookwyrm627's post you quoted. The perhaps more interesting thing about this, is that you never replied back, nor answered his question, when Bookwyrm627 addressed this (post #419), even though you made a number of posts before retiring for the Day. So, why didn't you?


[emphasis added]

Also addressed by Damnation in the meantime, but 2nd misrepresentation in the same post. Damnation never hinted at having figured out flubbucket's role - post #250, he says he's got an idea who flubbucket is flavourwise, nothing about roles, zlitch about alignments. A post you even link to Damnation during that back and forth of yours, and even insist you're right in your posts #465 and #472. You took that all back today, and apologised for the misunderstanding, because you hadn't made the Orange Case connection. Which is rather interesting since you seem to remember just about everything else related to the series, and quite well.

My point is that you tend to interpret what people say so that it fits your narrative, and insist that it's the way you say, no matter what people reply/explain to you. Could be town!you tunnelling, could be scum!you pushing your agenda. Based on what I've seen, I'm inclined more towards the latter than the former.



For me it doesn't make sense even if ZFR and cristigale are both scum, but do explain why it does for the two of you.



I've got a couple of comments and questions to address to you, but I'm heading to bed after I check my game updates, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

As will properly going through the non-Lifthrasil posts, before and after the one of his I replied to.

Night all.

Pre-post edit to reply to ZFR as I just saw his post.

I thought that the timeline made it clear, but perhaps not. And I can't put the crappy forum software aside, because that's what we have, and it did play a role, nor cristigale (the why is in my reply).

The above conditions are from your PoV; you may have made your claim around the 40min mark (post #542), but I I didn't read it the moment you made it - see my post #547 saying that I had just processed SirPrimalform's claim (post #517), and hadn't read beyond his claim-post. I commented on your claim in post #578 as that was when I had read through the thread, and processed your claim (it didn't help that your post wasn't just a straightforward claim). That was shortly before the 15min mark (post #583), by which time cristigale was already sitting on 4 votes, i.e. she seemed an equally viable wagon at the time which got me debating who of the two to vote. I believe I've explained the rest a few times already.

So yes, if nothing else was happening before and when you claimed, you'd be right to expect me to vote you when you claimed VT. But that's not how it was, was it? Just go back and read through the posts.

But let me ask you something - you concluded that I didn't vote you because I'm scum. Tell me, what exactly is the motive, goal, and gain from not lynching you for scum!me? Unless your argument is that you're my scum-buddy and I didn't want to bus you (as Lifthrabbit thinks), why did I choose to let you live if I were scum? Same for letting it go to No-Lynch. Even if you assume that I'm scum with cristigale, why wouldn't I lynch you since you aren't on my team? I mean, scum!me should be happy with a dead townie at every EoD, so why not at EoD1?

OK, goodnight for real now.

Unfortunately that's not one I can answer, Bookwyrm did leave me a note about his brig vote at the end of day, but nothing in particular about why he didn't unvote you other than a general suspicion of you in his reads.
Looking at the way things unfolded I'm not sure why he didn't move his vote to cristi (other than I believe she had no wagon on her at the time) but he maybe expected that either his vote wouldn't be needed to secure lynch or he could be back on before the deadline.

I can only assure you that whatever his reasons, they were town, but I don't expect you to believe that.

1) I answered that question in post 515, I was off on the time and thought the day was going to end in one minute from my post.

2) I still think scum was trying to make the end of the day as muddled as possible to prevent a scum lynch

3) Vitek started the cristgale wagon and wanted others to join him in post 558, and if you would have actually gone back and looked at all my posts I clearly stated I had cristi as one of my scum suspects so I had no issue moving my vote. Post 348 Post 417 Post 489

4) I will never vote to lynch someone I think is town no matter how much it goes against the grain of what people think. Town loses by lynching Town combined with NK's from scum, so if I think someone is Town I will not vote them.

My memory of two hours ago is fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure what I was thinking and trying to say is that the premise pretty much falls apart if not both = scum. That's it. That scenario seems unlikely, so I stopped there and left it for Lift or whoever it was to counter-argue.

I can elaborate on why it doesn't feel useful (to me) to bother with that mental exercise, but it's not shade. Well, not on you, anyway.

It's funny you link both, since adalia's post made me wonder just a bit if he was pocketing me, since I've liked his posts since the "itchy" comment and there it felt like he was echoing. Whether he is echoing or it's independent thought, I think we're both saying "X requires Y, Y is highly unlikely. End." So I think you're reading something into it that's just not there.

He can clarify for himself if he means different.

If you feel pressed to elaborate on why you don't think it fits regardless of it one/both is not HSL-buddies or even scum, smurfy! Feel free. But speaking for myself I just don't find the question that interesting.

I'd rather you talk about other stuff and ask questions and things, personally. But then I'm not one of the people voting you and you'll note in my reads list I have you as a pretty firm not voting, so ultimately it's not me you need to convince. /shrug


While I appreciate the spirit, he's actually voting on a viable candidate, and I'm all for earlier movement in the day. Can't believe I'm saying this but....I don't think we should brig flub...at least not until we can talk about what his vote means / doesn't in D2.

I think that's fair. Unless a compelling reason not to arises, I'd like to see Flub in the brig at the end of the day so I'm going to leave my vote there. Obviously nothing will happen if no one else votes.

I'm going to have to re-read cristi and the arguments surrounding her.

Haven't heard from you since the start of Day 2, so this is an offical prod.

Stay away from the cans!

But hey, tell us more.

This one?




Yeah...

Re-read cristi. This is still the "scummiest" thing to me (recognizing the need to move, delaying doing so by...a full day? And then pretty casual about it. timestamp is meh, but about 100 posts, and prior to the EOD explosion), and even that is pretty meh. Considering this vote only because of the obvious problem.

The most interesting thing was going back to an exchange with ZFR:

It jumped out at me considering he's aware of the disjointed time upon his own play, and even had to address questions about his posts looking out of sync when viewed after the fact, but looking at others being definitively scummy for the same exact effect.

Sigh. This frakking game...we're basically betting the farm on an AtE based on something that did or didn't happen outside the game and can't be verified but ...lots of AtE and was brilliant if faked. Probably a bit cheap either way, but I've probably done similar. But it is what it is.

cristi's right - he should have been lunched EOD with that claim. Period. Probably a discussion for post-game.

And now the die feels cast and who wants to waste another day on this distraction? But without that AtE and the need to just call it one way or the other and move on... he would probably still be my first choice...and yet, he's just off the table.


My last post of the day half the time I feel like I'm drunk even though I haven't been drinking.
Come on, cristi. Tell us something profound. How do you read the table, and the various vectors in play?