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A wedge is an interesting shape.

This has been a bump.
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elebutterfly: ... What? I'm a sucker for believing a full doc claim from someone on the point of being lynched

....grr. Why am I doubting myself?!
I underlined the answer to the second question.

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Bookwyrm627: Why would town!Damn, who already basically volunteered for the lynch, care about claiming before lynch, since we'd get his info from the lynch anyway?
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elebutterfly: "information", not just a claim. i.e. night movements, and that bit of flavour that Lift was really quick to dismiss as filthy lies (interpolated).
Maybe Damnation's claim is legit, and we've got not only a Doctor that can follow the Cop, but an extra Cop in case the Doctor isn't good enough at keeping the Cop alive.

Anyway, the claimed sighting of Lift near the kill site IS filthy. If legit, it means the mod is privately hinting to a single player that another player did something. As Lift said, that's adding tracker aspects to the doctor role.

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elebutterfly: @trent I am the last person who should be critiquing gameplay. I am truly sorry for your RL stresses, but I think there are too many things over the past month that add up together to make me move my vote just yet. However, since Wyrm took somewhat drastic action to remove SPF's quick vote, I don't think you need to be worried just yet..!
As SPF himself pointed out, my finishing off the brig wagon didn't move Trent any farther away from lynch.
EBWOP: That sentence should of course have read: "I'm a bit alarmed by the way no one else sees Book's little plan as being a bad idea."
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SirPrimalform: If they lynched me then my town flip would influence the night action choices (Joe might go for one of them?). This way my flip is only revealed tomorrow morning.
Are you saying Bler is on my team? Because my original proposal was that you would never see N3 at all; he's the one that seemed to prefer a Damnation lynch over an SPF lynch.

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SirPrimalform: EBWOP: That sentence should of course have read: "I'm a bit alarmed by the way no one else sees Book's little plan as being a bad idea."
Your original statement was far more correct. Joe already called my plan bad. No one except me seems to like it.
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Bookwyrm627: Are you saying Bler is on my team? Because my original proposal was that you would never see N3 at all; he's the one that seemed to prefer a Damnation lynch over an SPF lynch.
You're right, I must have misremembered. Your plan is marginally less scummy than I thought.

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Bookwyrm627: Your original statement was far more correct. Joe already called my plan bad. No one except me seems to like it.
There hasn't been as much alarm expressed as I thought it justified though.
Alas, only passing through. Skipped most of ZFR/Wyrm + ZFR/Ele arguing about logic. Was awake for chunks of the night and fell back asleep late and overslept a bit.
I mean, should still be back for EOD, but...probably not going to contribute anything more substantive.

Won't lynch
smurfs
butterflies
gems

Would lynch
...well, most of the rest of you. This gamestate is a bleeping mess.

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Damnation: MY day 1 post against ZFR was a (I admit) shakey gambit, but it went like this (I do not consider it successful, however):
Pick a player who was appaearing town. I, like a few others, saw ZFR's hiccups as those of a newbie, or someone at least not quite accustomed to the game yet, and thereby appearing town to me.
My thoughts were then to construct a very poor attack on said person, in order to either elicit a reaction from that person - or let someone start scumhunting on me - to cause a large rift.
My initial plan was to escalate it quite a bit, but never push for a lynch. I got what I hoped for, when Bookwyrm jumped in. He, at the time at least, elicit a town-vibe to me, which was perfect.
If I could appear slightly scummier than my "opponent", but both of us get enough spotlight, I was hoping to have the toasters react to it and attempt to nightkill one of us in order to throw shade at the other.
I feel this failed, however, as I ended up not packing enough punch towards Bookwyrm as I should have.

I decided the former was most likely, and protected Lift N1. Nothing happened. Flavor-wise I followed him in the night, ready to beat up anyone trying anything. Curiously, Lift was near Baltar's lab.
I mean, lots of things are possible but this is a strange explanation, even flavour aside a la the points Lift/Wyrm made.

For one, if your gambit is to try and draw the NK...why are you trying to look scummier or make Wyrm look scummier? WIFOM and all, but generally scummier is less likely to draw NK, all things considered.

Plus the tactical problem that, even if it works you've drawn fire onto yourself as town doctor, and kinda have to self-shield as insurance, even if the net impact of your gambit draws fire onto Wyrm instead and maybe he's PR? And if it works and they do kill Wyrm (might be PR, might not), doesn't the whole thing lead to you being forced to claim...D2? Having already protected yourself N1?

For two, if your gambit is to try and draw the NK, as the doctor, even if you're not sure the gambit is working why do you run off and protect Lift on a 50/50?

But I do appreciate the effort here.

Logically though...on first read this is really kinda strange to me.

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elebutterfly: (What's a GF?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n0j2ZAqeVk



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Damnation: Right, at the office making my last post for this game day - I won't have time to check in later.
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Bookwyrm627: The claimed Town Doctor just walked away without voting anyone for anything. :-/

Also, @Bler: Was this claim what you were looking for on Day 2?
I'm so tired I barely remember yesterday. Refresh my memory?

But in the broadest sense no, I don't recall ever thinking "Hey, maybe damnation is doctor!"
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Bookwyrm627: Your original statement was far more correct. Joe already called my plan bad. No one except me seems to like it.
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SirPrimalform: There hasn't been as much alarm expressed as I thought it justified though.
*shrug* Considering you are one of the two named casualties from Phase 1, I wouldn't really expect you to be thrilled. Doubly so if you're scum, of course. :)
AHHHAhahahaHAHHahahAHAHahAHaa

man I do love this game sometimes

Our Town Doctor was trying to draw a nightkill, eh?

Bold strategy, Cotton.

SPF is brigged. ZFR is lead wagon. And I find Damanation's claim to be... slightly suspect.

Gentlemen, I recommend we stay this particular course.
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bler144: Won't lynch
smurfs
butterflies
gems
I have no idea who "gems" is supposed to be.


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Bookwyrm627: Also, @Bler: Was this claim what you were looking for on Day 2?
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bler144: I'm so tired I barely remember yesterday. Refresh my memory?
Quoted relevant section below:

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bler144: And with SirP, do you think then that town has no protection roles at all? Or you just think that after cristi's claim and flip there's no counterclaim at all because some towny out there is going "Yeah, maybe we do have a cop, a backup cop, an RB, and my protection role too plus the brig! Wait - i figured it out. There's no cop at all! Thaaaat's how it balances!"
And lady. Apologies, ele.
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elebutterfly: Damn it ZFR, I can understand both your version of HSL's non-vote and Wyrm's perfectly well... Yours proves he's scum, Wyrm's proves he's town. QED?
Well Bookwyrm first said that if Damnation was town then it would mean Zephyr's probably mafia, but when Zephyr rephrased it contrarywise Bookwyrm stated that a town Zephyr doesn't necessarily mean town Damnation. Zephyr's right that that's a contradiction, but Bookwyrm's had quite a few contradictory logics, and I think ZFR's appearance of confidence in his town Damnation read based on something that Bookwyrm said then contradicted is also problematic. I see it's a case of neither of them really thinking it through.


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elebutterfly: Okay. In the interests of clarity, I must admit the game start and D2 kill reveal compared to the D3 kill reveal are different enough
That's so clever!

Right you immediately go on to way it's WI-frakken-FOM but still I would never have thought to compare them.

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Lifthrasil: Town-Damnation might see himself forced to claim due to Yog's softclaim ... only Damnation doesn't even reference that. So did he miss that while skimming the thread. Why did he claim then?
because me and bler asked him to. probably this has been pointed out to you already but... yadoi!


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elebutterfly: We had to push to get cristi through,
I'm not sure that's true...


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ZFR: You can't use odds/statistics this way.
Harsh. I'd defend Ele's right to use statistics any way she wants to. We're all playing a game.

ALSO the odds that any random 4-person bucket all contains scum is low! So surely it'd be sensible to assume against it!


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Bookwyrm627: Sure, why not? That resets the number of votes on Trent back to 1, which is very important to me.

Confession: Trent and I are the scum team. I'm so awesome, Poppy had to use two scum slots when she rolled me as scum.
lololol very good. If you were really putting your heart into it you would have gone on a bit longer and used more capital letters but I approve nonetheless.


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ZFR: Here is your two statements

A)

B)

Can't you see that A and B can't be both logically be true?
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Bookwyrm627: The important bit is not 'X implies Y', the important bit is the reasoning behind the statement.

A Town!Damnation might or might not avoid a Town!ZFR wagon.
A Scum!Damnation might or might not avoid a Town!ZFR wagon.
A Scum!Damnation has a very good built-in reason to avoid a Scum!ZFR wagon.

"implies" does not mean there is a certainty. That's why I used "implies" instead of "means" or some other word of certainty. 'X is a point in favor of Y being true'.
-The statement is "If Damnation is Scum, then ZFR is more likely to be Scum."
-The statement is NOT "If Damnation is Scum, then ZFR is Scum."
and surely we can stop talking about it here... what do we gain from logically solving some nonsense that Bookwyrm spouted?


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Bookwyrm627: -The statement is "If Damnation is Scum, then ZFR is more likely to be Scum."
-The statement is NOT "If Damnation is Scum, then ZFR is Scum."
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ZFR: OK...

For me "implies" means logical implication. If I meant "is more likely to be" I'd have used "indicates" instead.
ha. yeah the language we're all using is pretty ambiguous. Implies can both mean 'logically follows on to' and 'makes a vague leap to'. Indicates has a similar problem. Let's stop talking about it now.


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bler144: [REGARDING DAMN'S DAY ONE TAUNT ZFR PLAN]
Logically though...on first read this is really kinda strange to me.
yeah, I seem to remember this is the kind of crazy thing damnation does and is why I love him.



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Bookwyrm627: I have no idea who "gems" is supposed to be.
Sapphires ya dumb lug!


YOGS - that is not helpful.
By stay the particular course, do you mean faff around until no-lynch??

I'm being dragged away now, so

unvote damnation

vote ZFR

but I REALLY hope I'll get back to it soon.
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JoeSapphire: Well Bookwyrm first said that if Damnation was town then it would mean Zephyr's probably mafia
Pics or it didn't happen.

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Bookwyrm627: I have no idea who "gems" is supposed to be.
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JoeSapphire: Sapphires ya dumb lug!
Ah ha! There's the connection I was missing. Neither "Joe" nor your avatar pic said anything about gems, and I didn't recall anything about your claim having any relevance to gems either.
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JoeSapphire: By stay the particular course, do you mean faff around until no-lynch??

I'm being dragged away now, so

unvote damnation

vote ZFR
This is exactly what I mean.

SPF is brigged, so no more roleblock. ZFR is today's lynch.

Damnation can be tracked, bler can be watched - admitting I hope that's a thing - and barring some kind of strongman shenanigans, bler will get another check at night. Tomrrow dawns, and absolute worst case scenario (ZFR somehow Town, bler strongman killed), Day 4 starts with 3M5T, two hard-cleared townies via cop. Best case scenario, we start Day 4 2M6T and three cop checks, which I do believe if my mathin' is good, is mechanically locked. And in any scenario - best, worst, or something in-between - there's more information via role action to sew it up.
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trentonlf: Guy who is definitely not Wyrm's scum buddy.
I think we've got the votes for ZFR. Little help, please.

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Lifthrasil: Other guy. Also definitely not Wyrm's scum buddy.
Could use your help here. Lynch ZFR. Go go go!
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JoeSapphire: and I think ZFR's appearance of confidence in his town Damnation read based on something that Bookwyrm said then contradicted is also problematic.
Just to correct you here:

My town!Damnation read is not based on Wyrm's contradiction. In fact I only noticed the contradiction the next day. My town!Damnation read is based on his claim which I believe more than yog's softclaim.