EBWOP

I have also played with HypersomniacLive and you can also ask him as well about my stance on talking PM information.

I had been assuming death by snoo snoo. Maybe the strangling came after.

Definitely.

As someone who had correctly read Wyrm's alignment in something like 8 straight games just based off D1, if memory serves when he's scum he doesn't talk mechanics to sow confusion, but just to avoid saying anything meaningful about reads, or pressure, etc. It keeps him busy and "contributing" without leaving him on the hook, while still under control and not slipping or throwing pressure around in a way that draws attention that can blow back later.

Presence without presence.

That said, I don't think those posts make him auto-scum, since as you note these are ...odd...and novel mechanics, and the one meaningful post I thought he had I meta read as in line with him as town. Though even as town he tends to play a different angle, so I don't always know exactly what he's doing even when I'm sure I'm reading him right.

In this case it's really premature but...slight town lean??

But hopefully he contributes a bit more than mechanical chit chat.


Trent is correct. Though the statement is pro forma enough at this point that it's completely NAI.

He does mean it, certainly, but it does feel more authentic (if still NAI) when he rages in response to it happening vs. prophylactically laying out his preference.

But he seems to be trying to stay in a good mood and have fun, so...hopefully he continues to have fun!


Funny, I actually thought it was on point and clever.

We're going to disagree on everything, aren't we? ;)

Off for a bit - will re-read and try to catch up later.

That's the thing, I don't like the raging in response to PM talk and would prefer not to do that at all. Now just because I don't like it doesn't mean someone will not still do it. Hopefully no one does though. It's to the point that I just prefer to get it out there and over with because it's distracting and takes enjoyment for me away from the game just like when Dedo plays and I have to ask him if he's scum and he posts a meme saying "bitch I might be", after so many times of it happening it gets old.

I am having fun and will continue to do so I assure you, it seems we have a very good group of people playing that I would like to play with again, even Vitek :-P (I literally laughed out loud when bookwyrm asked Vitek his opinion of the brig mechanic and Vitek's response was to vote to brig bookwyrm and nothing else)

Lol - I missed that connection.

This post is funny. Also, the various elements (no clear agenda, not remembering who's who of new faces) feel pure.

I don't follow this. If it's about length, why does sequence matter either way?

Agree.

How can Vitek be so right on so many things and yet so wrong on ziggurat? ;)

1) You know me! Albeit, outside of this particular context. But you could easily have RVS voted me just on that basis. Or volunteer the rabbit because you love/hate rabbits, etc.

2) Everyone is intelligent, but everyone has different strengths and weakness - pushing/prodding/questioning are generally how you either sort them into town, or potentially box them into a place where they may err, or feel boxed into busing a teammate, flipping a read without a clear basis, etc.

That said, you'll likely have players who are easier/harder for you to read or engage based on their playstyle, and certain players who lurk and or bunker regardless.

Soooo...what do you think of JoeSapphire's analysis and reads list?


taking a break

On first pass I read "low" as a lean scum read, and just thought it odd you had more than half the group as leaning scummy (ele/rabbit/wyrm/cristi/zfr/SPF/HSL), but you seem to actually mean "low" as either little info or a weak read? Maybe? But then how...I'm lost.

Your 4 lows appear to be cristi/ele (both on your proposed team), HSL (of two posts: RVS + power outage), and SPF. I feel like I'm missing something here.

What WIFOM? Scum can't blame the failed NK on a brigged player. If the last scum is brigged, we win. If we go to Night with someone in the brig, then that player isn't the last scum. They might still be scum, but there has to be a free scum if we go to Night.

[url=https://www.google.com/search?q=hammering+on+the+red+button+gif&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs-Irb_4vcAhVRGt8KHbfHCDsQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=633#imgrc=4wqNaYdl1AM8BM:]Me[/url]

I'll vouch for this as well. This is a standard Trent warning/complaint.

Set a man up for death once, and he never forgets...

I'm getting there. I thought I had something, but the opinion poll surprised me.

First step is/was breaking RVS. Next step is unlocking a decidedly pro-town tool. After that, I'll probably find some creative thing that gets me lynched.

==========

So, the brig. I'm genuinely surprised so many people seem to be against it. The more I look at it, the more advantage I'm seeing for town in using it.

Ask yourself some questions:
1) Would you lynch a player on Day 1? This is kind of like a reversible lynch. Heck, if there are only two cylons, we could end the game in a Town Sweep.

2) If you were a Roleblocker, would you use it on N1? Collectively, Town is! This action does it in a verifiable manner, too; no doubts or jankyness about whether it worked. It also reminds me of some end games, where people are trying to collectively direct a player's action "Okay, so X claimed roleblocker, and if he does Y, then that means Z". We can collectively direct a roleblock, and just like voting for a lynch, people have to put their money where their mouth is when voting for it.

3) If you had a chance to slow (or stop!) scum collaboration, would you use it? There is no chance of hurting town on this point, but NOT using the brig means we have no chance of hurting scum in this area. And if scum have day chat?

4) Would you like town power roles to improve their chances of catching scum? Tracker, Watcher, Jailer, and Roleblocker all leap to mind as roles that would like to have a smaller target list. They all know a brigged player isn't going anywhere, meaning they have better odds of catching someone in the act. Certain other town roles, like the Cop or Doctor, do not have their targeting harmed by someone being in the brig.

5) Con: Yes, point 4 does mean that a town Roleblocker or Jailer would have a greater chance of blocking another town PR (assuming such exists), but using their power means rolling those dice in the first place.

6) Con: if scum have detection roles, like a Scum Tracker, then yes, their odds are improved as well. Mitigation: Most such roles typically aren't scum, and the typical scum roles (Role Cop) don't have improved chances of catching a town power role. After all, scum don't know for sure whether a town power role ended up brigged.

7) We can see who wants whom to not be in the brig. More ways for scum to link themselves together (or more buses for them to pitch each other under, since a brigged scum doesn't count for keeping the team active).

8) Con: Yes, a power role may have to do some fighting to stay clear of the brig. This is the same way they'd have to do some fighting to stay clear of the lynch.

9) Want to place a Finger of Suspicion? Prove it!

10) Have a top two for scum? Show your commitment to your list!

JoeSapphire - I don't like the feel I'm getting from his posting, especially his opening posts. It speaks of scum to me.
elebutterfly - I don't care for Post 46. I'm generally getting a scum read from what I've read.

littlerabbit - I didn't care for that first line in post 51. I also don't care for the "Hey guys, what shall we do now?" attitude. So fluffy that if he's not careful, [url=https://www.google.com/search?q=Agnes&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH4Z_gjYzcAhVPT98KHQQAC10Q_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=633#imgrc=hKq9cfKT3bgX8M:]Agnes[/url] is going to grab him.

SirPrimalform - Squinty face.
cristigale - Squinty face.

bler144 - Is talking. Would not lynch.
Flub - has Nintendo. Would not lynch.

Well...you had me with the first half of your post.

I have no issue with 9 & 10, but those are individual actions rather than collective actions.

1 has major flaws
2 / 4 have minor logic flaws
7 presumes a lot
6 & 8 are fairly contradictory, wouldn't you say?

etc. I'll leave it to others to pick you apart on the details. ;)

Most of the conversation since my last post was mostly talk about the brig. I get that it's a new shiny toy that we don't fully understand...but my eyes eventually started glazing over. So I apologize in advance if what I'm about to say was already said....

If someone besides the lynch seems scummy, I am fine with brigging them. However, as I see it, in regards to D1, we often struggle gaining consensus to lynch someone. How are we going to achieve consensus on a second player D1? Automatically brig the player with the second most lynch votes? Designate players as strictly lynch candidates or brig candidates? If we are going to brig someone, I think we need a plan in place to avoid any last minutes shenanigans or confusion that could contribute to no-lynch.

Back to other matters next.

I don't think it's self-consciousness if that what players tell you. Krypsyn went on record as always finding me scummy. I think I've heard it from other sources as well, but I can't tell you who.

Regarding flub - I remember flub used scum flavored avatars when he was scum. I can neither confirm or deny what type of avatars he uses when he is town. I know he typically changes his avatar to something game related. Like the vanilla bean...I only remembered that one when bler mentioned it because I didn't recognize what the avatar actually was until someone mentioned it after the game...and I'm not even sure what game that was. If flub was vanilla in the game with the vanilla bean, then perhaps I'm on to something. If he was scum...perhaps not.

@flubb or anyone else - do you remember which game you used the vanilla bean avatar?

Either way, I stand by placing that vote as a more than RSV.

Do you have Rygar? I loved the weapon in that game.

BTW, thanks for the clarification on your tagline. Is orange a good color on you? :-)

Yes, I agree flubb is easy-going in games. That doesn't preclude him from changing his avatar. What does being serious have to do with changing your avatar?

I am working my way back forward. At the time you posted this...my answer is flubb. It may change by the time I'm fully caught up.

@bler,
I wasn't referring to the whole first day. Of course I'm going to change my vote based on what's going on.
I was referring to literally the first vote on page 1 that you make. Mine was made (under the belief the game has started), when only trent posted above me. So what can one base it on? Sure I could go something like "I vote X because I don't like him" but what's the difference? Any randomness or pseudo-randomness at this stage is as good as any other.
And I was replying to the person who wrote that specifically mentioning random.org is scum-indicative: I did that in my only other game and I was town.

OK, since I've never played with power roles I read up on some mafia tutorials. It surprised me how for a quite a few number of them, the strategy suggests to claim early if you're town (yet no one claimed here so far). Is it because of a non-open set up so you shouldn't claim not knowing what other powerroles are there?