Hey ZFR, what are your thoughts on the brig mechanic?

If being in brig doesn't change the total required for lynching then the no-vote mechanism of brig is obviously detrimental to town.

Never played a game with power roles so can't comment on the no-power mechanism.

The no-talk seems pretty useful. I was scum in the secret Hitler game and the lack of private chat killed us. But... it's just one person who'd lose chat ability.

Vitek, please reveal your thoughts about the brig mechanic.

HSL, I'd like to hear your input on this as well. Once the forces outside your control stop being an issue, anyway.

With HSL being essentially brigged, he can give us a first hand experience...

Treachery most foul. :(

That was kind of my point. I was just saying that it wouldn't necessarily end the game instantly like a mislynch. I definitely wasn't saying it was safe!

I was still sort of thinking about the 4 town, 3 scum scenario there. One town vote for town and the scum have won. If scum were brigged it would prevent that, but if town is brigged by accident then it would (nearly certainly) be the end. I suppose if you were confident enough to brig someone at that point you might as well lynch them. I can see the brig being useful in the situation where you've got someone you're sure about (lynch) but there's someone else who's been found out (brig).

Any reasoning behind that?

While I do find the brigging mechanic interesting, I'm struggling with the WIFOM aspect which could be exploited by scum...e.g. Not using night kill and then blaming it on the jailed player.

This still feels like a late game exploit which scum might use....sooooo moot??

Oh my.

Now that is fascinating to be sure.

So then would town push for brigging more so than scum....or vice versa??

For me the brig mechanic is this big red shiny button that has never been in a game before that is tempting to push but you know you shouldn’t, but the more you look at it and talk about it the more you want to push it. I think it’s an interesting concept but it’s one that probably shouldn’t be used unless we are positive about two people being scum, then you lynch one and brig the other.

Agreed.

Question: If I vote and then later I'm brigged, is my vote negated??

Essay time!

Actually I mentioned it was also a vote-block in post 58, but curiously nobody noticed. Not to mention it's in the rules. Good to know we're all reading thoroughly...!

So who was more interested in the brig as a role-block rather than a vote-block... Book in post 66 is the first considered musing about the brigging mechanic. And... that's it. Maybe some implied stuff from Joe in 68 - no contradiction at least. Hmm. From SPF's "lots of talk" in post 76 I thought it was more than that. HMM.

To summarise Book's investigation, 'cos I got confused while reading:

* you can lynchvote and brigvote for the same player simultaneously.
* brigging is unavailable as of the point there are 4 players left alive (so, 1 scum 3 town, necessarily... right? I suck at maths)
* rules recap: a player who is brigged has no night actions (including scumchat), and no vote, but can continue to basically shout things through the bars during the day.
* therefore, it's been confirmed that brigging a player effectively removes their presence from the lynch mechanic. If this creates an equal town/mafia split in the free players, mafia wins. (See this post)
* waiting on clarification from the mod on whether brigging an active player in a situation where removing their vote from the mechanic creates a majority will trigger the lynch. Considering the above, this seems the logical outcome, if a startling one. (E.g. for my own benefit to work this out: Elespider has 5 lynch votes with 10 alive, so 6 needed to lynch. For reasons we need not go into, LittleHamster is brigged. This means there are now 9 "alive" voting players and it's now 5 to lynch. Elespider would be auto-lynched. In that case the brig-hammer for LittleHamster would be effectively the lynch-hammer for Elespider.)
Having typed that, I personally feel the "alive" distinction is what's important here, so IMHO brigging at this point shouldn't trigger the lynch because there are still X players left ALIVE. But I will fully and uncomplainingly accept Mod's ruling on this one. I know what it's like to introduce a new mechanic in a game, people keep trying to break it... :<

I keep typing "lunched"....

An important point by Joe that it will be very hard to read anything into a brig that lasts overnight, since there will be no proof of anything. But it might be useful in proving someone's role later on..? Also I can imagine situations such as "let me out of here and I'll vote X with you"... that's going to screw with us.

All in all, yes to avoiding the brig Today. Let's deal with Tomorrow when it comes..! What else, what else...

While I completely agree trenton, I feel like this statement came out of the blue... Did this happen in a previous game you've played, or something?

Nice dodge..........

On flub's traffic cone (pylon schmylon), I seriously don't think there's anything in it. We would all be extremely angry if there were. I find Damnation's comment a bit suspect. Trying to defend with flavour rubs me up the wrong way.

I'm actually getting scummy vibes off SPF at the moment. I still think the random.org accusation is lousy given it was the 2nd post, but there are a couple of things that make me think "Uhhh what?" Post 75 quoted above, and post 76 quoted above, and the little reaction to the brig->lynch hammer question as just "Oh that is somewhat confusing". It's all a bit vague and/or provocative.

Bookwyrm, not sure. They're very interested in the nuts and bolts of brigging, and they were the one who started this discussion without considering it as a voteblock. Possibly an attempt to sow confusion? Then again, they are legitimate questions.

flub getting in on the serious questions here... again, it's a legit question though.

{I'm travelling during the day tomorrow, be back in the GMT evening.}

hi ele! big ol' cylon that you are

It has happened in several games I’ve played in, and the breaking of games like that makes it hard to want to play anymore. I made the statement for all the people I’ve never played with before. We’ve never played together but you can ask bler, cristi, book, or flub about my stance on it.