Wolf Wolf

Oh sure.

Directly asking for someone alignment would be a great question if we were playing face to face. Lying would then be hard. The look, the voice would betray an insincere answer. But in a forum game isn't it a quite silly question? Unless it's a provocation.

It is silly, that's why the response it got seemed to blow things out of proportion tagging it as role-fishing [again]. What makes it stranger to me is that Lift brushed off the original role-fishing done by Wyrm on D1 as something that's too obvious and silly for scum to do but now the same thing but actually sillier is apparently taken seriously enough to warrant a threat of a vote.

To be fair Lift said in post 58
(...) Everything who jumped on the NL-wagon is suspect. As is Bookwyrm for role fishing. But I have only one vote(...).

He also said this not long after. Do you notice a slight agreement over something people are picking up on (not too much though, so a vote falls on someone else but the note is being publicly made) and then taking a step back a bit later on when opportunity arises? Do you know who tends to does that more often than not?

One scum who wants to distance from another but doesn't want to overdo it so they don't end up pushing to too hard for their buddy to get heat that early on. Am I seeing things that aren't there? Maybe. But maybe not.

oh, yes, I even liked that post. it could be that you were too pushy and Lift got annoyed?

Alright, I'm getting started catching up. Due to post length and the fact that I have about 140 posts to read, I'm putting this out there now. Apologies for anything already covered or disproved.

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I think ZFR and Joe are scum. I'm not as sure about the third (and I think there is a third), but Lift or Dogmaus are by far my favorites.

Pooka's 149 in the sign-up thread points to Macho Cop (which we've seen) and Commuter (which was claimed), but it also points to 9 Town players and 2 scum. Funny story however: I don't think Pooka ever said we're using the setup from 149 (counter-example welcome, since I'd need to revise my understanding of the situation). We're currently in a closed setup.

-ZFR's 766 is downright absurd, where he proposes 3v8vNeutral. If he truly believed Pooka's 149, then he's starting with 9 town (as listed in that post), not 8. Adding one more player to 9v2 does NOT equate to "Increase number of Scum AND lower number of Town". I don't believe ZFR would make such a mistake when starting from that premise.

Let's go back to the beginning of Day 2 when ZFR requested any Town Roleblocker to claim. There is no Town RB listed. Asking for a RB claim doesn't fit with his apparent belief in Pooka's 149, which only lists a Mafia RB. I think scum got a 3rd player, and I think they got a Godfather. No reward for guessing whom I think is the Godfather.

-I've already stated my opinion on the Commuter claim. I think it was quite the safe claim, and why would there be any expectation of it being counter-claimed? Commuter is not a strong team role, and any actual commuter would have no idea whether there is more than one commuter (after all, maybe Pooka chose a setting that could be nicknamed "Traffic Jam"). Even if it does get counter claimed, that still tells Scum where NOT to aim a shot. Add to this that Joe had to be pushed several times on whether he used his power on N1 before he answered.

-I've been periodically getting worrisome vibes from Dogmaus, with things that don't parse well, don't make sense, or look scummy. That said, I strongly read the Dog vs Cadaver spat from Day 2 as Town on Town violence. She confuses me.

-That said, Lift took the cake with his decision to actively decline claiming his alignment. I admit this surprised me more than a little, especially coming from Lift; I expected either "No, I'm Town" or "Yeah, I'm Neutral Survivor", not "I'll claim when I'm ready, and you're rolefishing!". Add in his apparent willingness to push some people about the Day 1 No Lynch vote without looking at the one person who started that wagon, and it's a bad look.

His persistence about my having gone rolefishing is also absurd.
My first "rolefishing" was simply me needling ZFR about the No Lynch. First, consider that I'm against No Lynch except in particular circumstances; newbies might not know, but any players that have been around for a while should know this about me. Next, look at what happened last game, where Town only managed a single lynch, over the course of multiple game Days, before being at MyLo. ZFR kicked off No Lynch then too. Third, consider that I show up this game to see that we're already around the half-way tipping point for an active No Lynch, and we're still below 20 posts. I add to the wagon to either get it done while minimizing the information scum can use for grooming Town (if town is suicidal again) or to get the wagon to hurry up and disband so we can play the game. Finally, consider Post 5 and Post 44; ZFR clearly doesn't believe No Lynch is the right option. I noted that, and so I poked him about the implication of his No Lynch vote as if it were more serious.

My apparent second "rolefishing" wasn't even about Lift's role; I wanted to see if he'd claim Neutral. I even gave him an out for it in the second paragraph of my Post 861. If he's Town, he just says "I'm town", and if he's neutral, then he either says "I'm town" or he can go with "Yeah, I'm neutral survivor" even if he's Neutral Something-else. Considering I directly quoted ZFR's guess about Lift being a Neutral Survivor when I first asked Lift about being a Survivor (which is specifically a Neutral(!) role), there was nothing role-fishy in my question to Lift. Unless he actively mis-steps, nothing about Town's power roles comes out from answering my question.

See above about the setup being 9v3. If Lift had claimed Neutral, then in my mind that would have secured him as the third scum.

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What was the deal with my opening vote on Joe on Day 3? I thought he was scum (see above), and I was fishing for reactions.

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I town read Cadaver. No scum pings, several town pings.

I can't read Dedo for squat. Great for his scum game, but makes it hard to trust him when he's Town. Gratz Dedo. :(

I kind of lean Flub as Town. Again, hard to read, but I'm getting that feeling. I find his D2 hammer as NAI and just ready to move on with the game instead of dithering for another day; if he hadn't done it, then I'd have hammered GH when I finally caught up. I missed the hammer by about an hour.

I haven't seen anything from Catte to help me align him with Town or Scum. To my mind, this automatically leans him somewhat toward scum, but several people look so much worse.

Interesting notation: When I consider the D1 GH wagon and the D2 GH wagon, and if I'm right about Dog and Cadaver being TvT, then either Catte is scum or all the scum were on GH's wagon on D2. Even ignoring the case I put forward above about ZFR/Joe/Lift, I suspect that all 3 scum were on GH's wagon on D2, but not on D1.

Additional wagon notation: On D1, I noticed Joe slide on the GH wagon in a very safe 5th position where he isn't starting it and he isn't finishing it. It looked scummy.

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Now, I'm off to read pages of material while you read this wall of text.

Looks like no one had anything to say yet. Just as well, since it is less for me to read.

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Correction to my previous post: I believe Town was at LyLo when they finally managed a second lynch.

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Stuff like this makes me think Dog might be scum.

Dogmaus: Why shouldn't there be a Godfather? What information do we have to eliminate such a scenario?

You don't trust Joe's claim, but I'm worrisome for voting him in spite of it? Okay.

I see things like this that just don't make sense to me. She lists what the Macho modifier means, then she goes on to question whether the doc did not protect GH (???) or were countered by the mafia RB? Macho being targeted for the kill means any Doctor's action is irrelevant to whether Micro survives a NK.

I see things like this that bother me. She indicates Commuter didn't use a shot last Night. It isn't an entirely unreasonable *assumption*, but she writes it like she knows. Joe didn't say whether he used a shot or not on N2.

Why? Does something confirm him as Town?

I've already said it in my previous post, but I'll re-iterate: What would make one commuter think a second commuter won't be in the game? Commuter isn't a role on the level of Cop, or even on the lower level of Doctor. Two Cops could easily be seen as OP, 2 Doctors not as much. 2 Commuters? That's barely a blip on the radar.

Dayvig Joe

Monster. >=(

People are believing his commuter claim, and Pooka mentioned a setup that included a commuter.

You're too crazy. Take a look at these two posts and tell me what you notice:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_73_soleannas_supreme_guardians/post276
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_73_soleannas_supreme_guardians/post754

If you said "They have a timer for the end of the Night phase", you'd be correct. Both timers happened to be convenient for my timezone and life situation.

Also, be aware that scum can submit their action and then go to bed or w/e, depending on local time. Mod may (and probably should) let the Night finish so people can't take guesses about what a short Night meant.

Also also, <3.

I'll credit 3 as possibly legit, but 1 and 2 are terrible reasons.
1) I'm hardly the only one to vote NL, yet I don't see you having a consistent problem with the others that did so.
2) I've already explained why I wouldn't have been surprised if Pooka accepted the vote. If you have a viable other player you think could have been the target of Mango's vote, then by all means, please share! Whether the vote was a joke or not is irrelevant to whether I thought the vote close enough to be valid.

I couldn't post an explanation (note my response to Lift asking me again for a response). Voicing my thoughts at the time would have spoiled the hunt.

What evidence might that be? Joe's claim? We have very different ideas on how townie that claim is.

Watch out people, she's got a taste for blood now! :D

What would a scum Joe, aware of that list and attempting to avoid a lynch, claim instead?

Good heavens. It isn't customary to claim your role unnecessarily. Alignment? Claim "Town" regardless of your alignment, unless particular circumstances apply. Neutrals might claim Neutral depending on game state.

You claiming "Town" would have put the kibosh on ZFR's theory (which was kiboshed right after I first asked if you were a survivor, though I didn't know it at the time), which is what I was looking for.

What the heck happened to the meta while I was gone??

Hey! I'm in this game!

Yes!

I was going to say you're throwing random accusations around which people said you're not like you were and could be my next easy target. But now meh.

We want your long and exhaustive analysis of bookwyrm

Hey! I'm playing this game with you!
ZFR and Joe are scum? My faith collapsed.

pooka have a bad Rep on gog
...
Yeah I'll blame timezone. I'm on the opposite side of earth and I see everyone who wake up early suspicious

Fake news.


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Did you finish reading those 140 posts. I already explained later why I thought we had a neutral. I misread Pooka's signup thread setup.

What I find strage is that apparently you didn't misread it. You knew it was RB+Goon vs 9 Townies. Yet somehow you believe that in the current setup Pooka added a thrid Mafioso and a Godfather. Yes, very balanced:

PS: When I requested Town RB to claim, there was zero flips. For all I knew Pooka completely changed the setup. Only when when Joe voted Commuter I began suspecting it, and later it got confirmed by Macho Cop (and indirectly by lack of kill on N1 pointing to Doctor).

I'm OK to vote Lift. His reaction to the Neutral claim request has definitely been strange. But I want Bookwyrm to finish catching up first.

I'm back!

Thank you for your elaboration. He knew - sus, they didn't - sus, those who ignored the question - double sus?
Joe is crazy - triple sus. Sounds good?

1 - I only have one vote though, and voting NL has been done by too many to suspect all of them
2 - ok, I accept this explanation
yes, I want blood - read it with the voice from the first Mortal Kombat. I'm glad you're still here and could write this post. But it would have been fun to eliminate you while you were afk and didn't even know there was a wagon on you. Anyway.
For the bs analysis: yep, I've probably said a lot of incoherent things, I tried and I failed. Thanks for correcting me, wherever your alignment lies.
What do you mean by where the meta is gone?