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General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 21, 2020
Actually fuck it I'm good on Cadaver.
Posted May 21, 2020
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Cadaver747: 4. Ah yes, discussing what the cop should and should not be investigating for a second time.
And why cop should waster his power on you two if we can just lynch you for free?
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lonzi: Okay so, when I read this I ask myself, would Cadaver actually feel comfortable saying that as a wolf? I sure as hell wouldn't, but I'm also not Cadaver. I think there are two sides to this, with one being that it's his second mafia game ever so he would be a lot less comfortable saying things like this, and the other being that it's possible he has a particular brand of newbie brashness, which some type A people have the first time they play mafia, where they're not afraid of anything and have no self-awareness / no idea what comes across as wolfy etc. I don't really get that read from him? I think baseline "we can just lynch you [both] for free" is more on the side of righteous villager prepared to exercise his divine right to kill than sinister wolf rubbing this person's face in it, mostly because, yeah, I think you would have to feel super confident to be comfortable making that statement, and something else that I'm not sure how to explain actually, and now I lost my train of thought so it doesn't matter, I'll come back to it if I remember.

Would appreciate other people's thoughts on this, for the sanity check if nothing else.
I don't see why you're calling Mafia *a wolf* but fine.

I'm super comfortable with that statement I made about a player who discussed what the cop should and should not do for a second time. I'm super comfortable with noting that cop investigation on most likely to be a lynched target would be a waste. I would act the same even if I were Mafia, perhaps maybe I wouldn't be so *vocal* about some things (this is not a claim that I'm Town).

So I don't see any *insanity* in my post. But since you asked *other people's* thoughts maybe they will see if from a completely different perspective.

It's my second GOG Mafia game, it's my 3rd GOG game (incl. Court of the Sultan) and I've played a bit on some Russian iirc channel a long time ago (a game session lasted for about 1 hour with shot breaks, there were a killer, a doctor, a sometimes a cop, others were just voters)
Posted May 21, 2020
Replied to Carradice/Lonzi/Cadaver
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Carradice: Hopefully today! I will consider views expressed in D-2 only. I might have to ask for people’s views if I cannot find them. The format will be the same for the last versions in Zeffer’s Harry Potter game.

Also I was thinking of experimenting with the delivery format a bit, to make it a bit clearer. You will see :)

Hopefully it will help also the fellows in the Observer’s thread, so that they have more stuff to sink their teeth into.
Good to hear.....will be waiting to see what you post re: this.
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lonzi: @Game Ranger haven't read to the dayvig claim, don't see how that's ever a fakeclaim though? Like, dayvig is just going to shoot you. Happy to find out that my early read there turned out to be a good one.
Imo they wouldn't as that would be a waste of a shot(it could be a town making the fake claim for some weird reason)....also if a person fake vig claimed imo the real day vig should(in general) stay quiet and not counter it so as to not be outed and found by scum.

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lonzi: I don't understand how anyone is reading me as a lurker but whatever, probably a self-perception issue.
I said the likely reason before: You don't post much. I know that's because of your IRL, but people sitll sometimes will suspect lurkers even those with IRL issues and reasons for lurking.

That said, I hope you start to feel better and get some more free time so you can post a bit more.

EBWOP: Like the ones you did while I was replying to other posts(replied to below)

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lonzi: But like, even if I haven't been active yet today, I've made posts, I've given reads, I've contributed to the game in a tangible way (or at least I hope I have). Saying your read on me is that I'm a lurker / unknown feels like such a mafia move, literally just go and read my posts and write out your thoughts on what I have put into the game because I'm pretty sure you won't be able to justify anything other than a townread if you're being honest with yourself.
Tbh I usually suspect lurkers a bit, but put them at the bottom of my suspects list....also I usually vote them mainly when I have little else to go on from others.
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Cadaver747: Have you even wear a suit jacket? Have you checked outside pockets? Were they open for use? (see attached)
I haven't worn a suit in years or looked at too many of them, actually....didn't know(or remember) they had sewn closed pockets.

Aside: That seems a dumb thing to do in tailoring.....why put pockets on something and then sew them shut? For the look? Seems a waste to me.

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Cadaver747: I don't see why you're calling Mafia *a wolf* but fine.
I believe that's an alt. name for the scum team or mafia games in some areas/etc.
Posted May 21, 2020
I'm not fully caught up yet but I have to come back to this tomorrow, can barely keep my eyes open.
Posted May 21, 2020
I have absolute faith that Cadaver and Scene are town. I am trusting my gut on Gamerager and Lonzi. Cristigale's scum reads align perfectly with my own, and it wouldn't make sense for her to defend me as mafia. Pooka is confirmed town.

The only players I haven't eliminated are SirP, Carradice, and Lift. The first two are incredibly obvious to me, whereas Lift hasn't given me enough reason to clear him. This is most likely the scum team.
Posted May 21, 2020
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lonzi: Okay so, when I read this I ask myself, would Cadaver actually feel comfortable saying that as a wolf? I sure as hell wouldn't, but I'm also not Cadaver. I think there are two sides to this, with one being that it's his second mafia game ever so he would be a lot less comfortable saying things like this, and the other being that it's possible he has a particular brand of newbie brashness, which some type A people have the first time they play mafia, where they're not afraid of anything and have no self-awareness / no idea what comes across as wolfy etc. I don't really get that read from him? I think baseline "we can just lynch you [both] for free" is more on the side of righteous villager prepared to exercise his divine right to kill than sinister wolf rubbing this person's face in it, mostly because, yeah, I think you would have to feel super confident to be comfortable making that statement, and something else that I'm not sure how to explain actually, and now I lost my train of thought so it doesn't matter, I'll come back to it if I remember.

Would appreciate other people's thoughts on this, for the sanity check if nothing else.
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Cadaver747: I don't see why you're calling Mafia *a wolf* but fine.

I'm super comfortable with that statement I made about a player who discussed what the cop should and should not do for a second time. I'm super comfortable with noting that cop investigation on most likely to be a lynched target would be a waste. I would act the same even if I were Mafia, perhaps maybe I wouldn't be so *vocal* about some things (this is not a claim that I'm Town).

So I don't see any *insanity* in my post. But since you asked *other people's* thoughts maybe they will see if from a completely different perspective.

It's my second GOG Mafia game, it's my 3rd GOG game (incl. Court of the Sultan) and I've played a bit on some Russian iirc channel a long time ago (a game session lasted for about 1 hour with shot breaks, there were a killer, a doctor, a sometimes a cop, others were just voters)
Just so you know, I'm almost never going to be interested in talking about my read on you with you. Also, I think you've misunderstood what my read on you there was about, but it's all good.


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lonzi: @Game Ranger haven't read to the dayvig claim, don't see how that's ever a fakeclaim though? Like, dayvig is just going to shoot you. Happy to find out that my early read there turned out to be a good one.
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GameRager: Imo they wouldn't as that would be a waste of a shot(it could be a town making the fake claim for some weird reason)....also if a person fake vig claimed imo the real day vig should(in general) stay quiet and not counter it so as to not be outed and found by scum.
I mean, if you're the real dayvig here you shoot Pookah 100% of the time and we spend the rest of the day looking for spew from her flip and finding her partners. There's literally no upside to not shooting her, if you don't shoot her you're allowing mafia to be fake cleared, you're denying town info and a red flip, and you're making us waste time trying to sort you when you could be cleared. And you never just counterclaim because you'd forcing town to coinflip on a lynch that could be resolved without ever losing town KP. It's the same principle as vig, you don't counterclaim someone who claims vig, you just shoot them that night, except here you're turned into a VT after you shoot so not only are you killing a wolf, you're clearing yourself while forcing mafia to shoot a functionally vanilla role. Does that all make sense?


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lonzi: I don't understand how anyone is reading me as a lurker but whatever, probably a self-perception issue.
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GameRager: I said the likely reason before: You don't post much. I know that's because of your IRL, but people sitll sometimes will suspect lurkers even those with IRL issues and reasons for lurking.
Think you misunderstood, I wasn't talking about anyone suspecting me (don't think anyone is, except apparently you I guess) and don't particularly care, just don't think it's an accurate description of my play and think dismissing me as an unknown is a slimy way to treat my slot. But maybe I'm just delusional and it is accurate.
Posted May 21, 2020
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lonzi: Does that all make sense?
For the most part....I got the basic gist of what you said, I believe.

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lonzi: Think you misunderstood, I wasn't talking about anyone suspecting me (don't think anyone is, except apparently you I guess) and don't particularly care, just don't think it's an accurate description of my play and think dismissing me as an unknown is a slimy way to treat my slot. But maybe I'm just delusional and it is accurate.
Sorry, misread that a bit....that said, eh if one doesn't post a lot then they are sometimes called a lurker(even if they are not trying to lurk) or thought of as a lurker.....it's just part of normal play.
Posted May 21, 2020
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cristigale: If the Laser/scene thing was going to be resolved, it should have happened yesterday. When D2 started, I was interested in players who didn’t at really consider this yesterday but seemed more than willing to do that today.
For what it's worth, I wanted to lynch LASER on D1, but when I came online Micro had already been hammered.

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cristigale: Wasn't a fan of Laser's votes today. I still think he's town.
You just think he's a really anti-town town?

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cristigale: D1 I gave SPF a town read based on his interactions with you. When the laser/scene drama went dowm, SPF didn't seemed bothered by the interaction. He later indicated that he would policy lynch Laser, but no real scum suspicion for either Laser or scene on D1. The post linked above seemed like a scum move to push the lynch on Laser or scene at the start of D2. It did not seem like a natural progression. I do not think I have seen solving from SPF outside of 'lets lynch here'
I was bothered by it on D1 but it hadn't yet occurred to me why Scene might get so confused by it. The speed at which LASER jumped to the hard conclusion Scene is town is part of what makes me think the whole thing was contrived to 'clear' Scene.
Posted May 21, 2020
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LASER97: I have absolute faith that Cadaver and Scene are town. I am trusting my gut on Gamerager and Lonzi. Cristigale's scum reads align perfectly with my own, and it wouldn't make sense for her to defend me as mafia. Pooka is confirmed town.

The only players I haven't eliminated are SirP, Carradice, and Lift. The first two are incredibly obvious to me, whereas Lift hasn't given me enough reason to clear him. This is most likely the scum team.
It is pretty weird how Cristi's list mirrored your own (minus her, who you'd included on your list at that point). And now you're clearing her for parroting your list? Assuming for a moment that you're town, why wouldn't it make sense for a mafia!Cristi to align herself with you?
Posted May 21, 2020
Are you serious? It would be extremely risky and pointless for mafia to align themselves with me right now.
Posted May 21, 2020
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LASER97: Are you serious? It would be extremely risky and pointless for mafia to align themselves with me right now.
Oh right, because you're scum and you'd take them down with you?

You know that if you flip town people are going to turn on me first and foremost.
Posted May 21, 2020
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SirPrimalform: Oh right, because you're scum and you'd take them down with you?
I've given plenty of excuses for scum to vote me without being questioned. If anyone is still defending me at this point, it's because they are most likely town. That has been my PoE strategy this entire game.

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SirPrimalform: You know that if you flip town people are going to turn on me first and foremost.
Gamerager or Scene are the next probable lynch targets, which you have been helping to manufacture.
Posted May 21, 2020
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LASER97: I've given plenty of excuses for scum to vote me without being questioned. If anyone is still defending me at this point, it's because they are most likely town. That has been my PoE strategy this entire game.
Step 1. Behave in an outrageously anti-town manner.
Step 2. Clear anyone who still thinks you're town.

Ok.

This is almost a complete inversion of the logic which you were trying to use to lynch me in Hotel Stanley.
Your argument in that game was as follows:
There was a jester behaving in an anti-town manner. SirPrimalform wasn't on the jester's wagon. SirPrimalform must be scum.

But in this case you're behaving in an anti-town manner and Cristi is cleared for not buying your antics?

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LASER97: Gamerager or Scene are the next probable lynch targets, which you have been helping to manufacture.
You wot?
Posted May 21, 2020
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SirPrimalform: Step 1. Behave in an outrageously anti-town manner.
Step 2. Clear anyone who still thinks you're town.
I haven't eliminated anyone solely because they town read me, but it is a point in her favor. Unlike players such as yourself, which have done nothing but effortlessly cling to my wagon instead of scum hunting.

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SirPrimalform: But in this case you're behaving in an anti-town manner and Cristi is cleared for not buying your antics?
The question is if Mafia would bother to defend me after everything I did. The answer is probably not, because it would be dumb and pointless. Our reads are also on the same page, which is another good reason to eliminate Cristigale.
Posted May 21, 2020
FACT: FIRST DRAFT FOR D-2 SUSPICION TABLES

Ladies and gentlemen, the first compilation of views is ready. Since not everyone expressed their opinion in an equally clear way, you might find inaccuracies. If you feel misrepresented, by all means let me know, so that it can be corrected.

Veterans from the Harry Potter game know the drill. The table above shows in a column the opinion of each player on everyone else. The rows to the left summarize the results.

1 is a flipped scum. 0 is a flipped town. 0.5 equals a perfectly ambivalent view, or failing to mention someone.

The table below translates scummy views into possible bandwagons. Treat it as virtual bandwagons.


FACT: DISCUSSION

The virtual bandwagons table shows a few surprises, at it often does. Leading appears Large the LIft, followed very closely by Lazy Walkins, and then by Shirley Primalley and Scenes.

Most agressive with the number of suspects appears Cadaver. He appears to be also the most severe in his judgement of the other players (highest average cipher for suspicion assignments). Most lax appear to be Jocelyn Carradice and Lazy Walkins. Walkins's and Cristine's views appear as the most contrasted ones, with the least number of ambiguous readings.

Most trusted appear to be Miss Pookie, Cadaver Slim, and Shapie Lonzi.

If we move to the readings averaged by trust, Shirley remains the most controversial (the one who receives more contrasted readings, below 0.5 and over 0.5). Most suspicious remains Lazy Walkins, followed closely by the LIft and Scenes, then Primalley.

The Lift leading by far the virtual bandwagons list, while remaining the second in averaged suspicion, indicates that there is a large number of players giving him a soft scum reading. On the other hand, the scummy readings for Laser, Scenes and Primalley are less in number but more clear. The large number of soft scum readings for the Lift might be attributed to his sparse presence in the game thread and (arguably) rushed comments on the Pookie hicjacking situation ("to vig or not to vig").

Takeaways: LIft might improve his scumminess by showing more in the thread. Failing to do that, he might be a solid alternative to the more discussed Walkins or Scenes. Primalley has been targeted by a few, but he appears to be trusted by a few as well. He appears to be the most controversial player right now and a successfull bandwagon on him seems less likely than for the others, at the moment.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)