I'm still up for lynching scum.

"Guess he was telling the truth. Just as well to have him out of the way, so scum can't use him."

I'd like to hear Scene's answer to my question.

I also would like to see people vote.

Also,

Also also, apparently Pooka's meteoric rise caused Trent to stumble, since he fell below me in your revised scum chart.

Also also also, one would think I'd have learned not to leave the cursor on the "Post Message" button while I'm typing on a keyboard subject to palm mouse clicks.

Who do you think that is?

Right, I keep forgetting things.

Sorry I was this late, but congratulations to the both of you! Hope she leads a fruitful life!

----
I forgot what else to respond to...

If I could vote scene and micro at once, I would. But it's probably a coin toss at this moment. Micro has a vote and scene has a vote. Voting either brings them to L-3...but we've brought scene close to L-2 before and learned more about him from then. Micro is still a bit of unknown territory and to be honest, I don't like his play at the moment, for reasons I mentioned earlier

Also, unfinished sentence.

Well, and I was the only one to see that blotunga's play seemed more town!blotunga-like than scene's shenanigans...

If I could table in GOG, I would.

Old Joe's Town Meter:
MOST TOWNY
^
Gogtrial
SupplementScene
Bookwyrm
Trent
Dedo
Microfish
Flub
Pooka
v
LEAST TOWNY


New Joe's Town Meter:
MOST TOWNY
^
Gogtrial
SupplementScene
Dedo
Pooka
Bookwyrm
Trent
Microfish
Flub
v
LEAST TOWNY

Okay, it appears that trent dropped because dedo and I rised up the ranks. Joe says dedo raised up because "he'll trust dedo's read." I assume he's referring to this post by dedo.

But if so, shouldn't you be higher, bookwyrm? Why trust dedo himself but not his words?

JOESAPPHIRE!!1!!!! EXPLAIN THIS MESS!!1!!!1

Learn to do that more.


Also, hang on a sec.

[i]zeogold? sheepness?

Did I walk into the wrong universe?[/i]

JoeSapphire and dedoporno do NOT make me feel secure regarding their towniness.

Vote count please

I'm here. I'm catching up quickly and then I'll share what I was considering in the past couple of days.

Catching up from way back when:
Ah, that is true, and I'd missed that as a "read" (despite noticing it from Joe's PoV due to it being the source of his trust for you).
Quote for reference:
Still, "I'd like to think that" isn't exactly the strong town read which I interpreted your "don't want to vote" as. Is that just a matter of me not correctly interpreting your meaning (quite possible!), or were you deliberately trying to keep your reads vague so you could claim them either way as the game progresses? (Something for us all to ponder.)
Combined with two instances of you not wanting to repeat yourself...

The "piggybacking" I am thinking I'm seeing is not your "stance on" blotunga in itself, but the way you first expressed reasoning for it way after the fact (#226), by echoing someone else (though the fact that you echoed Joe doesn't work with my suspicion of the two of you being a team). This echoing happened two days after you joined the game.
Still, insofar as you genuinely feel that I'm unfairly accusing you of something that is a direct cause of joining late, I did not think I was doing so, and you have my apologies.

Btw, did this explanation from me make sense to you? I'm kinda asking because your thinking (expanded in the quote below, as flub only put in the dots) was the cause for flub moving his vote back, but I still see that thinking as wrong:

I see your reasoning as faulty. Flub uses your reasoning to re-vote GR. Did flub not (want to?) see where it was faulty?
Something to check up on: Does flub always trim his quotes quite so strongly?

I didn't pay too much attention to this for the point of speaking to fellow mafia, since I believe(d?) the non-avoidance would go both ways (I deliberately skipped noting it in my original roundup at the start of D2), but yes, I did pay attention to it when re-reading everyone's individual interactions with SPF later on.

*g* When I first joined mafia, bler's performance in Oakwood was my inspiration, which I tried to emulate somewhat. Glad to hear that I've arrived. :)

Any intent to clarify this?

I know hindsight is difficult, but would you have voted GR if you'd properly understood that there was a 30% chance that it was in the game?

You said in #688 that you would "look at [your] vote again" if someone could direct you to it (which happened), but never showed up anymore before EoD.

Any thoughts on flub seemingly concluding the opposite of what you appear to be claiming here?

I like the question you start with.
Given your reread, could you do a most-to-least scummy list from your PoV?

Semi-official vote count:

Microfish 2 - Joe, Scene
Joe 1 - Bookwyrm
Scene 1 - Microfish

Not voting: everyone else.

How can you tell? I didn't like the sound of this line.


OK, this makes no sense. Why would this make me Townier than I was earlier? I guess It's supposed to make me feel better and yet it really doesn't. This is at least the second time where you give me Town credit for something I don't believe you should. I'm sorry if you are Town and genuinely feel this way but it just looks weird to me.


You meant to say "JoeSapphire and flubbucket do NOT make me feel secure regarding their towniness.", right?


OK, all caught up. So,


PREVIOUSLY ON MAFIA


We had these two mislynch wagons so far:

blotunga - JoeSapphire, Flub, dedoporno, Bookwyrm, SirPrimalform, scene, trent

GameRager - Pooka, Flub, dedo, scene, Micro, Bookwyrm (+ Joe)


The people who were on both of these wagons are:

Flub, dedo, Wyrm, Scene, (Joe - technically he wasn't on the second one but for all intents and purposes should be counted in it as I've been told he did cross-vote with Wyrm for the hammer)


The people who were on none of these wagons are:

gogtrial


People who were on the first wagon but didn't join the second:

Trent, Joe (but not really)


People who weren't on the first wagon but joined the second:

Pooka, Micro


The scum took a very heavy blow on the first night. Not only they lost one of their own but they also didn't manage to decrease the Town numbers. Depending on how many scum players we currently have they might be less or more obligated to join each and every Town wagon they can.

I really don't see gogtrial skipping both wagons if he is scum. If he is, his scumbuddy has to be very well hidden and a whole lot of people have to be Town-reading him for gogtrial to afford to stay away from pushing a "good" Town wagon and keeping his hands clean for some future moment.

I already have had him as Town during pretty much the whole game so I feel it's pretty safe to keep assuming that.


I don't see lone scum Trent (or any lone scum really) skipping the second wagon as he just doesn't have enough time to dilly-dally. Obviously the scum can't even rely on night kills so they'll probably get even more desperate as days go by.

I've had Trent leaning Town in the past days because he feels like town!Trent even though some of his back and forth with Scene doesn't make sense a whole lot of sense to me.

On the other hand if it's not a lone scum it's quite possible the mafia decided to swap places so it doesn't get too obvious being on all Town wagons so far. If I am fooled and Trent might actually be scum his buddy probably isn't Joe but may be among one of the new voters Pooka and Micro.

Something to note here (if Wyrm is to be trusted on this) is that him and Joe didn't exactly cross-vote and Joe's redundant hammer came later. This may or may not have been on purpose and to serve some purpose. I'm too tired to think about possibilities on how that would benefit scum!Joe.

If there are 2 scum and the above assumption is correct (alternating scum on each wagon) I'm more inclined to believe that it's Joe + Pooka or Micro.

I've been reading Pooka mostly as Town so far as most of his posts and observations resonate positively with me and he seems to be trying to figure out what's going on but can't discard the possibility of being wrong and placing too much trust in him.

Then there is Micro - he is a lot more confusing to me. I've played a couple of games with him and I never can get a good read on him and too often end up surprised when he finally shows up to share some thoughts. Maybe we are just too different, I don't know. To be honest the only thing that is making me consider Micro as more Town than scum at the moment is his big post where he got frustrated with Scene which felt genuine. Normally I don't trust such AtE posts and even frown at them but when it's done by a newer players (which I still consider Micro to be) it may actually be real.

If there is only one scum this is pretty much where the suspect list starts - with Joe, Pooka and Micro.


Finally we arrive to the easy part - players who were on both mislynches - there has to be scum here. Maybe not all of the scum are here but there has to be at least one. There is just no way there isn't.

That's me, Wyrm, Scene and Flub.

I know I'm not it and I'm pretty sure it's not Wyrm either.

That leaves Scene and Flub. One of them is not like the other - Scene has been off pretty much from the start of the game with continuous weird choices, statements and accusations but the annoying part is that this isn't automatically AI in his case. It may be either way. I'm pretty torn on him as it's a very easy choice but at the same time it's a very easy choice. Can it be that easy? For a few days now I have been pondering over the idea that he has been intentionally playing in the way he did to bait a Cop investigation and continue unchecked as a Godfather but wouldn't that be pushing it a bit too far? It could backfire so easy unless of course he counts on people giving him a pass because they would expect that type of behavior as Town.

Flub on the other hand only started to feel weird Yesterday (some others shared concerns earlier on but I haven't really seen it). He might be the lone scum who doesn't have time to play games but the same time I'm not sure if he'll make the effort even if that is the case.


Based on all of that I'd say the remaining scum is among the following (in order of most likely to least likely and in sets):

1 or 2 scum left, top priorities
- Scene
- Flub

- Joe
- Micro
- Pooka

2 scum left, reserves
- Joe
- Trent


I don't see the rest being scum. If someone is they are playing a very dangerous and bold game, they have fooled me and get a tip of the hat regardless of the final outcome of the game.

In earlier days when there isn't too much to work with you (or I at least) have to make a rougher ranges of people who feel better or worse for whatever reasons. In some cases some of the people on the positive list are more positive than others on it. Generally I wouldn't want to vote for the whole list but for some people I wouldn't want to vote at all.

The same applies logic applies the other way around too. There are people I have on the positive list which I wouldn't want to vote but in case I really must (like early days no-lynch) I would.

In all instances I can't be certain about anyone other than myself or based on my own personal information so I can't be put concrete trust on anyone.

You are not incorrect to question it but I doubt you'll find anyone who would say "I know that he is Town" or "I know that he is scum" with certainty without having exclusive knowledge on the matter. Well, maybe there is one such instance but that was obviously a false positive so yeah.

It did and this is indeed my fault - you were correct that I was misunderstanding the mechanics. I was going off memory and I was under the wrong impression that all roles alternate in the same way starting from a full role and needing another full role to question a fake claim. That's why I had the Roleblocker as the safest fake claim.

Well, I not sure what else to say here. Is it that hard to believe that someone can arrive to similar conclusions on a topic as another person? If it is then it so be it.

I probably didn't understand correctly what you were referring to, so there is no need to apologize.

Is this a question for me? Even if it isn't I'm only going to say that he may have seen things in the same way I did. So I can't blame him for that alone. What is more noteworthy is that this seemed to be enough and as I said before I didn't even mean it to be some massive condemning clue - it was just a small point to make note of.

Thank you! No semi about it.

9 players. 5 to lynch.

I had to reread this twice....XD



Nice analysis.

Much to think about.