Dammit, my game is off. That was the better joke.


Will attempt to regroup and do better.

Fair enough. Curious - have you played before much online or IRL?

Your questions of flub are good, for example.

And he actually answered you directly and clearly. ;)

Lots of things here.

Clarification flub is voting ZFR not agent. And yes I was referring to your and cristi's possible vote on agent.

In my eyes it is suspicious that flub did the same thing as ZFR but is getting no heat for it. Agent comments on Joetells flub is reading but no one can or will identify what those tells are. Its almost like no one really thought Joe was scum but they voted him anyways. Yeah yeah tell me how switching votes last minutes or no lynch etc is not good for town. But either is lynching town.

Lastly, yes fair I did not explicitly say I wanted to vote agent nor was I expecting players to interpret my posts as that. But I had started scratching at something that I thought might have made others pause a bit.

More lastly, my experience is 1 game observed off and on (#55), 1 game played (#56), 1 or 2 IRL about a decade ago with a big group as an ice breaker type and no one took it seriously much. I do have some experience with tabletop hidden role games but those are not nearly the same and I'm average at them.

Open question to everyone. Why scene last night?

Elaborate?



Is town expected not to self-pres, and why?


And?



Not sure I follow - are you reading what SirPrimalform said as subtle agreement with you, and are asking him this?


How are you trying to apply heat on flubbucket?

1. I know - P1na is voting flub. Thus my observation was you had the option of being #2 on flub, or #1 on agent at this particular moment/day, and chose the latter.

2. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario where I ever look at flub and ZFR and say "hey, they're doing the same thing!" ;)

Approach/reasoning matters, clarity/opacity, consistency with prior actions, timing and gamestate, etc.

I could elaborate if you wish, but I don't think it's fruitful.

3. Some of this seems like relative experience. When you're newish you never want town to die, and it's hard to relent that we didn't lynch #mytopchoice! #IknowIwould'vebeenrightthistime! and instead ended up lynching #lynchabletownie #sadface #whydidyoubastardskillKenny?.

The reality is D1 town and/or scum will join together to gleefully lynch town far more often than not because that's where the numbers are, and mafia have some leeway to manipulate those odds a bit further if they dare / need to. Mafia has spare info, would prefer to lynch town but usually doesn't "need it" to win, depending on PRs in play, mostly just need to avoid maf lynch; town always lacks and needs info, has spare bodies.

Lynching VT...is thus fairly inevitable. It's an average outcome. Not as good as lynching maf. Not even as good as lynching neutrals.

But it's far preferable to lynching town PR. Or getting three town to claim (PR or no it helps mafia PR-hunt by thinning the potential targets) and then no lynching. The game of Mafia has VT in the same way a chess game has pawns. Note that Joe didn't claim - he may not have been able to get online when he hoped to. He also may have believed that claiming VT on D1 may well have finished him off faster.

Fire drill voting, as you suggest, is always disorganized, which makes it easier to distort or manipulate votes (I had X as leaning town overall, but in that moment, I focused on that one thing they did because impulse!).

And you're no more likely to lynch right even if the impulse FEELS better, thus generally decreasing quality of info for town without improving the odds, and endangers town PR that might get lynched without claiming (have seen that a few times), or might be forced to claim when it was totally avoidable. I'm not sure I've ever seen a fire drill hit maf.

Does that make sense? You lynch hoping to hit right, but realistically you're going to hit wrong a lot. What you're playing for given that reality is maximizing info, and enjoying the times success does come. Work together, build methodically. Unless you're world's greatest cop, you're not going to win the game single-handed, and probably not even then.

This is pretty much exactly what flub is getting at in his post about staying on the wagon, just, you know, in 10,000 more words. ;)

TLDR: flub's post could be maf fake-lamenting. It could be town having a change of heart and real lamenting. It could be neutral doing whatever neutral flub does. Regardless, it was the most correct action tactically so it's hard to assume ill motivation in it.


https://youtu.be/u1FnYvk6KP0?t=47

No, I don't think SPF agrees with me. As has been pointed out previously if townZFR knows he's town and knows his own lynch is bad but he doesn't know Joe is town for sure and while he may suspect Joe is town a ZFR vote on Joe with the possibility of him being neutral or scum seems much better than a confirmed (to ZFR) vote on himself. That being said I'm not saying ZFR is lock town for me. Just that the vote on Joe and the comment isn't scummy to me. Flub made a similar comment while voting Joe without the EOD heat on him that ZFR had and came out swinging at ZFR today. It seems fishy to me.

No, I have not applied much heat to flub. I'm just surprised no one else has either. My attentions are more focused on agent right now but flub is definitely 2nd.

Finished rereading.

OK, Town points for flub. I don't see you adding a second mafia vote on my wagon so early.

I'm still strong gown on: bler, town-leaning on: muddy, cristi (and now flub). So your 2 partners are among: HSL, P1na, Ixam, agent?

@Lift, what are the deadlines for toDay?

1. I missed P1na's vote at the beginning.

3. I know it is unlikely we hit scum with the initial lynch but I see similarities between flub's comment and vote and ZFR's comment and vote that everyone else seems to either not see or disregard.

2. What are your reads on flub and ZFR?

2. https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_56_the_witches_of_salem/post279

3. Pretend I'm an idiot and missed it entirely. I am looking at the post where you question flub and his comment - I'm not sure what action/quote/post of ZFR's you're referring to in comparison. Link and/or quote for me, please?

Post 232 and Post 258

My view has swayed a bit because Joe's post #193 & 195 were thoughtful and concise. However, I can't see changing the lynch target at this juncture as pro-town.


Lift's vote count though made me realize I'm just 1 vote away from being co-lynched, so I switched back to Joe.


This could be my inexperience but these read similar to me and one not necessarily scummier than the other.

Normally I'd think so too but unless I'm a blind chicken with ADD he sort of breadcrumbed a role and hinted that he's a bit of a "big deal."

Plus if he is scum I don't get why he'd scream at the top of a steeple (did I spell that right?) that he voted to make sure he didn't get lynched. I almost want to slap a vote on you, but then I feel like YOU'RE too smart to not have known what he's doing. So maybe you're fishing too?

And am I the only one happy about Joe's flip after the non-claim? I mean I "assume" he was around to do it, but the wagon went fast at the end when we got close to end of day and I guess he could have missed his chance.

During a re-read I see also ZFR's post 263.

Additionally, 266, 273, 274, and perhaps most telling 278 wherein flub worries about a possible late day double lynch if he switches his vote. Turns out this is exactly what ZFR was worried about except it would be him on the chopping block.

Did I say Joe made any scumtells??