Uhhh.. I can't see the difference. Arguments re meta-reading is fair and arguments re in-game stuff is unfair? #iambeingdeliberatelystupidtomakeapoint

Ah. So I shouldn't judge your actions solely based on your actions, I should judge them in light of the previous game that I wasn't a part of. /s

I didn't read bler144's stance as neutral, but we can agree to disagree on that. I guess if others want high-risk high-reward, I can't do much to stop it. I think it's a bad idea.

You "stated the players that you thought were town," huh? That's not quite what your post says.

Town or Scum? No indication

Town or Scum? No indication

Town or Scum? No indication

Town or Scum? Likely town. Unless he's not.

Town or Scum? No indication

Town or Scum? No indication

Town or Scum? No indication.

So of the 11 players that you give reads on: 7 you don't give a scum/town read, 3 you give a scum read, and 1 you give a town read. Sure, I have a number of players still in my neutral category, but I'm being quite open about what I think of them.

Not the best way to avoid getting lynched. But I can understand the feeling. Hope you're not feeling personally attacked.

I am 100% sure of something. Also, it gets tiresome typing "it's my opinion that" before every opinion, so I just assume that my opinions are gospel truth.

I want to play in a game with you where you aren't mafia. We'd have so much fun if I wasn't trying to lynch you.

Unvote Joe

Vote SPF

Joe's posts make me think he's more likely Neutral

I've gone over your posts in regards to supplementscene, and it's not clear to me why exactly you'd prefer to lynch him - is it because you think he's scum, is it because his play is anti-town even if town, or because he falls into "won't self-resolve over time"?

Could you clarify which case it is, and summarise your arguments for it?


If only betting was allowed...

BTW, what does "pf" mean?


[emphasis added]

Why are we back to this, when it's been pointed out to you thrice now that said player did answer that question?


Could you point them out?


Are you actually scum-reading him, as in "one of the mafia"?


I'm not sure, I don't like the "people may well fool me, so I'll just sit here and do nothing until I hop on a wagon of someone else's making" attitude in his response to you in post #167. And for someone that doesn't play the meta-game, he seems (overly?) concerned about it.

@HSL that's a good analysis under the spotlight. However if Joe is using his dad's internet, his dad is going to want to lock up before bedtime, so Joe is going to have to leave for that reason. Otherwise there is allot of suspect posting.

I read him Neutral too. Definitely reads playing for survival in a rather obvious way. But then again I don't think we're getting Scum in day 1 either......

Also what is the case against SPF again?

@Joe I think you're at the stage now that you want to claim honestly

The sun, while not visible, seems to be setting outside. The overcast sky turns red in the west, while the rain stops. On the village square, which you can see through the barred windows, the villagers set large torches around the village oak and a noose is fastened to a strong branch. The authorities haven't asked for your verdict yet, but soon they will. Who is it going to be?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Daily vote count

agent 1 - cristi (65)
ZFR 3 - P1na (19), SirP (122), muddy (160)
Joe 4 - flubb (129), Ixam (156), bler (165), agent (178)
P1na 2 - HSL (24), Joe (149)
SirP 1 - ZFR (197)
bler 1 - scene (96)

Joe is closest to lynch at L-3. In case of errors, yell.

There was an error that was clearly edited, votes for mod killing Lift....

Too late. I can't be killied. I am mod and as such I transcend the concept of death!

That is not dead which can eternal lie
For with strange eons, even Death may die!

Heh, nicely done. Could you elaborate on what has you scum-reading him?


Why? Were you convinced by the reason he gave for it?



Since you declared not playing the meta game, I'm not sure I follow why and how this is a concern for you.



Where does flubbucket fit in here?


I didn't particularly like them either, but for a different reason.

But here's the thing about Phase 2 [emphasis added]: The OP says "die" instead of "tie", but that's a typo (right @Lifthrasil?). So with more than two ties, only one person gets actually lynched.



"Hrm" what about that vote count?

And why unvote supplementscene, at least why before doing those re-reads?


Define "non-scum"?



What is the meaning of terms like "L-3" when we're in Phase 2?

You can still hammer in phase 2 if absolute majority is reached.

Looking at vote count, sorry Joe, but I'm at risk of getting co-lynched and SPF wagon is not happening and I'll be out tomorrow till afternoon.

So, sorry to go back and forth, but

vote Joe

ZFR, are you serious about this D1? I'm with agent on this, could be a possibility later but this early when everyone is flailing in the dark seems really bad.

The question is - should I be?


Funny; is town and mafia the only possible alignments in this setup?


Ah, the wonderful art of sophistry.



That was more of a joke, hence posted before and separately from the rest; pretty certain JoeSapphire got it.



I guess mechanics is safe enough a topic to quote-reply to me.



I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. I assume you're referring to JoeSapphire's #104, yes? Could you rephrase?

And I'd appreciate a bump, have a separate post to make.

Here's something that drew my attention:

muddysneakers vote is wrong (they'd had voted No-Lynch in post #112), but that doesn't affect things.

Lifthrasil mentions the imminent Decision Bell In the same post. If that status remained unchanged, both ZFR and SirPrimalform would be lynched. That's post #124.

In post #127, agentcarr16, with a lot of theatrics, votes supplementscene, changing the vote count to: If that status remained, one of the three would be randomly lynched.

flubbucket restarts the JoeSapphire wagon in post #129: JoeSapphire, after a another round of "whoops", moves away from SirPrimalform and casts a vote on P1na with no decent reason in post #149, shifting the vote standing: And shortly afterwards, ZFR also moves away from SirPrimalform (and poof goes his wagon) and votes JoeSapphire in post #152, adding him to the pool of players for the random lynch: Was all this vote-shifting genuine? Or was someone manipulating the ties in anticipation of Phase 2, trying to protect someone? If yes, who and whom?

I was watching to see how things developed from there, and hoping for a pace that might have allowed for (some) dots to be connected, but JoeSapphire's wagon gained quite the steam in a rather short time-span, with Ixamyakxim, bler144, and agentcarr16 - three votes in the span of 22 posts, with a forth one (ZFR's/post #197) 20 posts later.
While supplementscene's wagon dissolved completely, and ZFR's one gained a little bit more steam with muddysneakers' vote (post #160). Steam that's artificial, as P1na's vote was a joke RVS one, and he's already stated that he's going to move it off of him, yet enough (at least for the moment) for ZFR to return back on JoeSapphire claiming "risk of getting co-lynched".

Perhaps I'm reading too much into all of this, as it happened fairly early in Phase 2. But every time I return to it, I get a funny feeling that something (more) was going on here. So, keeping it in mind for later.
And while I see enough wrong with JoeSapphire's play, his wagon went to L-2 quite quickly. Which is usually an indication that it's a convenient one for one or more of those on it (and off it). More so with the absolute majority hammer still in play.

Interesting observation. But unless you think you've hit two mafia and two neutral there's some town in there.

With Joe's wagon taking off and him one of the ones changing votes you must not suspect him as mafia then right?

Additionally, you mention SPF's wagon going poof but Joe was first to leave that wagon and now he's on the chopping block so why would ZFR feel the need to move?

Need to take a closer look at this.

Huh. Quite a bit on the table.

Apparently I read this post earlier since part of it I recognize, but I missed this bit.

...did you really feel in that moment the day was at any risk of ending with the leading wagon having 2 votes?

Just as feedback, your argument was like 95% OMGUS, so even people who might agree with bits of it are going to tend to discount the whole, and they probably have other things pinging them more, or want to see your theory tested in other ways/connections first.

If you think someone hounding you is non-town, especially if it's literally the first vote on you D1 which counts for literally bupkis, your better course is to prod/question/observe, and come up with something before you go at them.

If you go at them first and start just piling on "and thens!" people will tend to think you're now both OMGUS and tunneling.

Plus the reality in this game is that if you have 12 players you'll probably have 12 differing opinions on the same set of facts, in part because every town player knows at least one thing generally no one else does (your own alignment/role), which will frame your view on what's targeted at you, the "truth" of what you've got going out, etc. Plus add in different playstyles, beliefs, etc.

And the reality is, statistically, at least most of the people who end up voting for you will be town. Town has both the numbers, and less info, thus lots of mistakes in the aggregate.

So you can't start with the assumption that anyone accusing you - esp D1 - is scum. Ask questions - challenge their assumptions, but if YOU are town in that scenario it has to be from the standpoint of solving/sorting whether they believe what they are saying (right or not), and whether the arguments could hold water or whether there are wolfy features - not jumping immediately to locked in killing it with fire.

Are you suggesting there's not much analysis period? Or that what's passing for analysis is her echoing others' analysis? (I confess I haven't looked closely at that latter, but there's definitely some significant analysis and clear stances there, esp. compared to a number of others) I would disagree with the former, she's just concise/efficient and less verbose than some of us.

That said, this is just how she plays D1 of any alignment, so...


I mean, forming the first viable wagon in phase 2 is also less than strategic given how many people play asynchronously, but that didn't stop us here either. ;)

Yeah, I agree, I just think we're likely to end up in situations that make that harder than it sounds. If there's 5 hours left and everyone is on, being the leading wagon by 1 vote is NBD. If it turns out there's really 1 hour left and practically no one is on, it's kinda too late.


Looking at how much still to go, and how many people apparently want to ask me questions, sadly this will likely be a few more wall-o-textses coming. Sorry not sorry.

I'd say bump, but realistically getting through the next few will likely take >10 anyway.