Nah, it's been Bernard Black the whole time.

Nonsense. Seat 4 is right around Seat 3 for hot seat scumminess. But neither one compares to Seat 6 for putting down the hammer, and if I'm in Seat 3 OR Seat 4, then I'm not in Seat 6!

OK, I see a number of things that caught my eye have already been commented on or questioned by somebody else in the way I wanted to, like Lifthrasil's possible breadcrumb on clearing of Vitek, and Bookwyrm627's insistence Vitek votes when he himself hadn't placed a vote, so that's covered.


So, what was your reasoning behind your legitimate vote on Vitek at the time? Or hasn't that point in time come yet? If not, why not?


I fail to see what the value in mentioning Dessimu (Ixamyakxim) along with the other two is, since we all know what his circumstances were (are), and you yourself said that his vote on Vitek was a null read (post #248). I mean, if your intention was to merely make a votes list (heh), shouldn't he be in a category of his own?


Don't quite see what your point's supposed to be.


And why was it so important to be the hammer? To paraphrase dedoporno - if I were a very cynical person I'd say that the reason was to be able to list yourself among those on his wagon on both Days, especially after mchack having cleared as confirmed town the Lifthrasil, SirPrimalform and Bookwyrm627 trio.


Seems like you don't consider the case it may be v/v. Could you elaborate on why?


Heh.


Seeing the force and sort of arguments mchack uses against me, I'd clear him as town, if it weren't for a small chat we had before game #54 started, and how that went for scum!him in that game. So, I'm keeping this in mind, but I'm inclined to go with leaning town for now.

As for Ixamyakxim, he has even less posts than Dessimu had when he dropped off, which he spent mostly talking game setup and not answering questions before he jumped on the mchack wagon based on Vitek's analysis.


A bump would be appreciated.

I see I'm not the only one that noticed this.


I'm not sure I follow on the "rarely lack any follow-up" bit; could you elaborate?



Funny, I'm starting to consider the same. Partly because of things I've thought over while lying sick, and partly because his reaction to me calling him out seems more on the OMGUS side as time goes on, and he keeps falling over himself to prove he's doing some serious scum-hunting. Keeping it in mind for now.



And that's the big difference between you and me.

You decided that those off supplementscene's D1 wagon were suspect, while those on it weren't until proven otherwise, and that based solely on his flip. I didn't, and I still don't see it that way; being on the wagon had a lot more value for scum on D1, and if off the wagon, drawing as little attention as possible was key.
Getting his wagon to the station as quickly as possible on D2, doesn't tell us anything, as everybody and their cat would appear eager to lynch him, and by not wanting other interactions you're limiting yourself to whatever weight and value the D1 ones had without any additional information/context.

Just to be clear, you can scum-read me all you want, I'm just pointing out that choosing the path you did, you're being short-sighted. I'm with gogtrial34987 on this.



If you think I'm mafia, then it can't be accidentally anti-town, can it? Just saying.



These is the sort of posts that make me miss bler144.

I'm torn between being insulted and amused you seriously think that my scum-play is that bad, and I'd be that obvious were I supplementscene's buddy. But I hope the two of you like crow as much as Bookwyrm627.

The part that was already public is that I thought we had a chance of hitting scum by lynching that slot.

The part that was not appropriate to reveal at the time was that I didn't want to have only a single wagon at EOD; I wanted at least two wagons that looked viable so we could see what people did with them, instead of people going "Well he's the only thing going and we need a lynch, so...".

As stated at the time, I was content with lynching Poppy (via Vitek) or Supplement.

The value is in completeness. It is how he voted, listing him with the others helps keep the numbers for each wagon correct, and everyone already knows that Dessimu's vote was effectively stuck so they can judge that vote accordingly.

Noting a shift in your behavior, and when it happened. This was a data point that highlights something I found odd.

Making sure he gets hammered was important because I had him as lock scum.
Doing the hammer myself is important to me because I like killing you people.

It's nice when business and pleasure coincide.

The gist of the part you quote is that I don't think you two are M/M. It didn't address v/v anymore than it addressed v/m or v/sk or m/sk.

Alas, business and pleasure do not always coincide.

Can't afford to bus your other scum buddy? :)

Right, but I don't know your alignment for sure as I'm not a member of an informed minority. Whoops, did you forget to put your think-like-town hat on?
I think you're mafia and I think thus I think it was deliberately anti-town, but I was stating my opinion that I think it was anti-town regardless of intent.

If you're having to resort to nit-picking it tells me you probably don't have a better defence. :P

So why is it mostly you addressing scene and telling him what to do and what not to do?

EBWOP:

I know you can no longer get onto GOG at work, but you plan on returning after work to participate right? I would like to hear from you, beyond echoing what others have said, on who you think is scum and why.

Hi everybody! Sorry work got an alert that I was writing about dead cops on the internet... it's all mchack's fault.

I'm on a nintendo, so no quotes, sorry. Here's my notes so far.

554 - vitek asks me what I make of sirp: He's going pretty strong at Hypersomnia which is notable, but I'm inclined to think he's the more town-leaning of the two. But as I mentioned before I think I tend to leave off him a little because I know him. However if one of he or Hypersomnia is scum, then I'll go for the one who messed around at the end of day 1 for poor reasons.

557 - vitek says supplementscene voting sirp makes sirp look good. I can see that. Also if vitek's scum this is probably accurate too. vitek going for town points by clearing a town? vitek also points out that supplementscene was wishy-washy in his reads of me, which I commented on a little at the time - It was weird, and it does look bad for me, but it was either down to scene's general contradictory manner, r else he was playing more cleverly than I give him credit for.

560 - trent reckons lifthrasil copped vitek. I hope he'd be a bit more obvious than that but it's possible. Still a town read doesn't necessarily mean town.

563 MckHack says Hypersomnia worked out Lifthrasil was a cop. It's not very believable..
also he accused me of accusing him of rolefishing! Actually I was referring to you saying we should end the day early to avoid the mafia finding out information about our roles. My counter-point was 'let's keep the day going, and simply not give information away. It's not that hard, isn't that what we do every other day anyway?
ALSO he says he reckons he was the one who got copped. Which makes me assume he's godfather or copproof serial killer.
ALSO he claims scum were trying to derail the lynch, I don't see how they possibly could have done so! he was one vote away from lynch and there were many willing to hammer. Even if three or four peole dropped off his wagon it looked like there were plenty to fill their places.
ALSO mchack and sirp think Hypersomnia was lying about believing scene's false claim. which is pretty believable considering how wrong it looked.
ALSO - oh there's nothing else I had to say about this post...

566 - vitek says (interpolated) "I think McHack might be scummy, but I reckon he's town, so I won't vote him now but I might vote him later" - I don't like it

573 & 597 - trent claims it's scummy to use role PM info to vote. I can see how people think it's unsporting, but scummy? In my game I deliberately put clues into the roles for town to look for. Why should it be bad form to think "doctor townie" is obviously wrong, when supplementscene's been scummy enough to get to 6 votes, and have two people 'temporarily off-wagon' (TOW) ? If it was anybody else I'd think it was suspect behaviour, trying to defend your own scummy abstinance from a good lynch, but trent has got his own views on these things and he's quite clear on them. IN FACT I still think it's weird that Trent finds it scummy to vote based on "doctor townie" but is fine with saying "if he doesn't get modkilled then we should lynch him" but y'all don't seem to give a boat.

575 - bookwyrm's comic. yessss.

577 - vitek hasn't voted? Is that normal for vitek? I can't remember. Certainly (interpolated) "I'll be willing to vote McHack but I'd rather give the wagon a chance to run out of steam" (566) rang alarm bells for me.

585 - hello pot :)
actually you're starting to sound more like your old self today. I've not really had a chance to get into day 3 until now, sorry about that everyone. But I did promise more reads and I shall deliver!

589 - trent had pointed out that bookwyrm hadn't voted so here bookwyrm obliges. actuallyI've no real problem with that on second thoughts... I dunno. It seemed significant at the time

593 - Sirp notes how Hypersomnia claimed to believe scene's doctor claim, but rather he got modkilled. oh no wait, yeah that seemed a contradiction, but it's not really is it? ah well.

I'm sort of up to date now.

In summary: Vitek still has me on edge. Mchack's not looking so good, but those two don't contradict one another.
Hypersomniaclive is possible scum, but perhaps not with McHack.

Aw boo I just realised my end-game glory is not possible. :c

vote vitek
uncharacteristic start to the game - negative and not particularly helpful. His end of day one was bad. His hammer-too-late is scummy. And now he doesn't want to vote McHack. I might change the vote to McHack if nobody else is interested in vitek, as their teaming is a possibilty.

I'm also happy to lynch trentonlf(didn't lynch d1), IxamYakxim (lurker), and gogtrial (seems absolutely fine, which makes me nervous). Uh, Hypersomnia I'm not sure about. SirP is maybe leaning town.


who's left? bookwyrm again. ah, dear flubbucket. with me that's 10. deado, lifthrasil and supplement scene make 13.

It's not a particularly in-depth read but it'll have to do for now, sorry. I need to sleep!

ok. I see it's dogma for you. I don't get it though. "I don't believe his claim" is exactly what I said. and I stated exactly why I don't believe it. I don't get how that should be scummy. Why should I have no idea whether “based off of the OP sample PM and the PM listed on the wiki I think he’s lying” is true or not?
1. The wording Doctor Townie is one that is only used in the example vanilla pm as "Vanilla Townie" but all the other roles read Town Doctor, Town Cop, Town Vigilante etc. in the wiki. That in itself is inconclusive, but it wasn't the only point.
2. Leaving out whether he could self protect or not, saying the pm didn't specify and
3. claiming he copied his pm to thread and not a paraphrasation. That's where the prove lies. 2) is the second huge point suggesting it's fake and 3) is the ultimate prove of it. Either it's fake or he would get a modkill.

So no I don't think I should have had no idea if it's true or not. It was clearly fake. hence I voted no other reasons needed.
It also doesn't matter if I had reasons to vote him before or not. it's a single turning point, he could just aswell have claimed scum. And then I wouldn't look at his former posts trying to concoct some reasons on why I could vote him. No claiming scum is enough to get a vote. Just as fake claiming is.

As for pm talk in general, I completely am with you. It's bad. Remember last game, scum had less information to claim. We didn't have flavour names (we were all ditto) but town did. I thought it was unfair because fake claiming was much harder for scum than for town (lift and flub did a great job though) because we all had the same name and claiming some random pokemon was dangerous because someone might already have the same, or the same quality (water, fire, whatever) so real treacherous.
But all this was not the case here. There was no information deficit for anyone. Everything I based my accusation on scene on was public knowledge. He just messed up and got lynched for it. I don't see any reason why I should be lynched now for calling him out. seriously, I do not get it.

---

soo, good scum play, I guess. *shrug*

My point is you don’t know what the mod did or did not do and you can’t base a vote off of assuming you do know. How do you know ZFR didn’t change things in the PM’s he sent out, even if it’s something minor like using Townie for everything instead of Town? Maybe he’s only changed some and not all? You could be absolutely right and ZFR did copy and paste from the Wiki, but can you know for sure enough to vote someone? I find it scummy to base a vote off of what the mod might have or might not have done with PM’s. Yes we got lucky that scene was scum and not the doctor like he claimed, but that does not mean you were right in voting him for the reason you did.

For now
Unvote mchack. I need to ISO him again and a couple of other people.

Hmmm, I see.
In my eyes I can see why someone would not suspect scene D1 and would want him dead D2 when he wasn't modkilled nor offed at night so I wouldn't have much problems with that.
But it is also true that the post was made very soon after Day as if it was prepared in advanced and I would agree that there it doesn't feel right and like something planned.

Vote Count

mchack - 3: xxxyakimxxx, flubbucket, Bookwyrm
HypersomniacLive - 2: SPF, mchack
Vitek - 1: Joe

Not voting - 4: gogtrial, HSL, trent, Vitek

10 players. 6 to lynch

Because it is mangled.
It was supposed to be "usually lacks any follow-up".


This post was brought to you by HypersomniacLive*.
HSL, clearing himself since 605.


Pardon me if I am stepping too far here but I would dare to guess you don't share the opinion of HSL of it being TxT argument?


Woooo, PM and flavour dissection. My favourite topic.



* Not to be mistaken with Clive's Rusty Ladders.