If an RPG has heavily randomized loot, I'll generally save-scum to a degree. In several games there are only a small number of opportunities to get a particular item, but if loot's heavily randomized you may get shafted and miss out on something really useful forever.

I also generally save-scum before doing any sort of pickpocketing or stealing. In an absolutely staggering number of games, failing a pickpocket attempt or getting noticed while stealing leads to non-aggressive NPCs becoming hostile permanently, which can effectively be a game over, especially if they cause OTHER non-aggressive NPCs to become hostile. If there's no way to calm down an angry NPC, I won't steal anything without quicksaving first.

Oh yes that would definitely be the first instance in which I resorted to save-scumming as well. Though not so much against the Harkonnen as when I played Harkonnen. I would load saves over and over until my Death Hand missile would hit something, preferably a heavy vehicle factory.

Well, no, not really. The risk was part of the fun, because it increased the stakes, knowing that a wrong move could send you back some way to the last save gem. Part of the challenge was being able to weigh the risks against the rewards of such a dangerous undertaking.

Being able to save anywhere on the PC version meant that there was no tension with those jumps - no matter how impossible a jump looks, you take it anyway, because you know that you can always load a recent save state.

Indeed.

Some key culprits include Half-Life (1 & 2), Soldier of Fortune 2, SiN, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Voyager: Elite Force, Call of Duty 1 & 2, Jedi Knight.

I'm actually in favour of a combination of both, but gimping the save-anywhere feature in such a way that it discourages such liberal use of it, either with limited saves, in-game penalties or just generally being somewhat "out of the way". Quick saves are the very antithesis of this.

A well-done auto save system sets the pace and creates the tension without forcing you to dredge back through unnecessarily endless amounts of previous gameplay.

It's a guilt/superiority thing. Some people put fun before anything else, some people's experience hinges on that sense of accomplishment they feel from overcoming bigger and bigger challenges. But when they get stuck, and they have to resort to frequent saving, they still feel the urge to describe it as something negative.
Then you have the people who bank way too much of their self-esteem in video games, to the point that they'll use the term as a "I'm better than you, I didn't have to save scum my way through such-and-such section" insult.

JA: Unfinished Business is pretty much impossible to finish without save scumming. Narrow corridors + tons of elite supersoldiers hidden behind every door and every corner = 1-2 of your mercs die before you even get the chance to retaliate.

Also, honorable mention to FTL, for the achievements.

I'd say it's more based on what you expect to get out of a game and your own personal sense of fulfillment and achievement.

Personally, if I've had to save scum my way through a game (which I recently had to do with American McGee's Alice because of that game's appallingly bad collision detection and physics), I feel very little sense of achievement, just as if I'm forced to use a walkthrough to circumvent wholly illogical puzzles or engine bugs.

You have to ask yourself - do you just want an interactive storyline, do you want a challenge, or do you want to experiment with gaming the system? I'm sure save scumming is acceptable when you're trying to game the system, or if you just want to experience the storyline with little challenge, but I don't think anyone should kid themselves that they've actually achieved much if they complete a game by constantly hammering the F5/F8 keys and eventually getting lucky.

If you want a challenge, you need to be able to handle appropriate penalties for poor performance and to be able to deal with the luck of the draw.

And as I said, if a game is so poorly designed as to actually require save scumming to even be playable (e.g. JA: Unfinished Business as Avogadro6 pointed out), that doesn't speak well for the game.

KoDP. too much of RNG screwing you over and hidden stats/modifiers.

I usually don't put that much thought into the whole thing. If I get the feeling I'm saving too much, I stop doing it while realizing that I may very well get my teeth kicked in for a while until I clear the problem area.

For some games, they get saved more than others. Aarklash Legacy is coming to mind. There are sections where you can end up randomly drawing more than one enemy party at a time. The party is strong enough to fight that group on an even level, but if that randomness bites you in the ass and another strong group shows up, you might as well reload immediately. After about a dozen times of that, I started saving after each encounter. It wasn't fun otherwise.

I have had this conversation... im not into the superiority thing. I'm more into practicality.

Practically all games that offer different endings or reactions I do that, I feel no guilt either. My time is precious and I really dont want to have to do complete play thrus in order to watch a 5 sec cut scene. There are rare games are so engrossing that I do not begrudge another play thru with diff choices, but I really have too many unplayed games to mess around replaying the same game over and over

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I just reread and understand that this topic was reserved for rng items, meh.. well I generally dont do that because its too much work to have to sit there and reroll for items or rewards, if others want to do it more power to them. I would do it sometimes just so I could see what was in a barrel or in someones pocket and what would happen if I got caught, would usually revert back to the save game once my curiosity was satisfied.

You have more sense about the whole thing, then. If a person is at the point of taking something based around fun and turning it into validation for their existence, they need to think long and hard about their priorities.

Yeah, I try to strike a healthy balance too with games that have no auto-save or have auto-save points that are too far away. For one thing, if I keep losing at the same point, I'll generally quick save if I can get from the auto-save point to the quick save point essentially with one hand tied behind my back. I'm fine with repeating it two or three times, but that's it. But saving every time whenever something looks remotely dangerous just robs the game of the tension.

What you quote there with Aarklash Legacy is probably an example of poor game design, specifically an overreliance on randomness for enemy parties.

As much as I hate 2 admit it, I often save-scrum my way thru many FPS games I played b4 due 2 some OCD 2 complete a game w/o losing life & killing enemies with a single hit if poss. Lol. However, that is usually only done if I hv completed that particular map or chapter normally & knowing that I hv the capability 2 do so but was unable 2 somehow the 1st time so I save-scrum the 2nd time I play it in order 2 save time replaying that chapter/map.

With regards 2 other genres esp RPG & TBS games, I hang my head in shame that I often resort 2 save-scrumming in order 2 either get better loot or more favourable conditions in the game as well. However, there r some RTS games that disallows saving while in-game until u complete that particular chapter/map in which case I just hv 2 keep replaying till I get the outcome I'm satisfied with. :p

The only exceptions where I dun save-scrum are those games that only hv auto-saves available thus I will just hv 2 force myself 2 play them as best as I can.

While I agree that save-scrumming can take the fun out of games & that it is also generally regarded as 'cheating', I do feel it all boils down 2 wat 1 hopes 2 achieve fr game in my opinion. As long as I dun save-scrum 2 'cheat' others that I got so-&-so pts in a game or etc, I think how I choose 2 play a game is my personal choice & I think wat matters 2 me most is whether I enjoyed playing it in a certain way in order 2 get that sense of achievement I desired.

I hope there is no offense taken by any1 who play their games the 'usual' way w/o save-scrumming. :)

What about a well-designed game that is made with the assumption that players will take full advantage of the save/load system (I'm thinking of Wizardry 4 here; I think that game is actually well-designed, provided you assume the player is an expert)?