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YaTEdiGo: A) someone affirms cannot play at less than 60fps, not even at 59fps.
B) same person affirms he is having pleasure in playing MARIO64 at 60 fps.
C) experts demonstrate to him, he is actually not playing at 60fps.
D) he found his mistake, and agree.

- whatever you said about someone finally run the game at 60FPS is totally IRRELEVANT with the point explained.
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Magmarock: No, points A through D are irrelevant. Just because you know someone who can't see the difference means nothing to the people who can. Including those who managed to hack the game past it's 30 fps cap of which you said was impossible.
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YaTEdiGo: A) Action and 3D games are better at 60fps
B) Even action and 3D games aren´t unplayable at 30FPS
C) People that like games more than technical issues know perfectly that games are playable at 30fps, and more than enjoyable.
D) Mario64 when it was released was a jewel. Add hundreds of games to the list, if not thousands.
E) Get mature, games are great as long as they have all their features equilibrated.
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Magmarock: A, yes
B, sometimes
C, this is an oxymoron, games and technology are symbiotic.
D, key word is when, I don't think it's aged well.
E, that including framerate right?
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YaTEdiGo: Your words about sickness, death, diseases, etc. make you a very funny person. So yeah, you are one of those Zealots, easy to see since from the very beginning I said, welcome, to your list, but I said my absolutely acknowledge opinion about this issue, as a competitive player, industry professional, multi platform gamer, with more than 30 years of gaming behind me.
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Magmarock: I don't think you understand. The critics of the framerate police are the ones wishing death and disease thus being the most vile; while advocates at worst are being nit picky, and you have inadvertently agreed with this. In your previous posts the worst thing you cited was that people complained about technical things, thus straightening my point.

You yourself have also resorted to using ad hominems against me. Case and point calling me a Zealot, because I don't agree with you. While also demonstrating a muddled understanding of I'm trying to do.
The person that failed to see the difference is one of the most active 60FPS zealots out there. So what is irrelevant is your whining with me, not your post idea. More when I repeat you can do whatever the list you want, I am not sure what are you trying to demonstrate here. About how possible or not is to make MARIO64 run at 60fps I will repeat you that is totally irrelevant to this conversation, but if I were you would be as careful as my friend to do such claims, he needed to eat his words.

A) yes
B) most part of the times
C) Sure, thats why you are such a gamer that you are forgetting retro games, indie games, old consoles, 2D point and click adventures, single player, isometric slow paced 3D RPGs and a long etc. of game genres and forms of digital entertainment that are absolutely far from need 60fps all the time.
D) Irrelevant. We still have games released now at 30Fps that are jewels.
E) Sure, among dozens of other features much more important than frame-rate.

Seriously if you want to have serious people listening you, stop talking about disease and death threats vs. the frame-rate police, it makes me have facepalms here... you made yourself a Zealot just with these uberstupid argument man... just because we reasonable not agree with your crusade, but we AGREE with your list, and with the relative importance of frame-rate. I repeat, relative, you need to claim that critics of your crusade want you dead or sick, MEGALOL.

Who is the Zealot?
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SirPrimalform: And yet films are still commonly made at 24fps, crazy right? By the way, there's a difference between refresh rate and frame rate.
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Magmarock: Why the hell are we talking about films this is a games focused thread.

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SirPrimalform: Right, but there's a difference between "can be better" and "unacceptable". Yes 60fps is better than 30fps, but no there is nothing wrong with 30fps.
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Magmarock: Yes there is. It is absolutely unacceptable in this day and age for a game to be released with a locked framerate. I ask of you to present one good reason why this is. Things like physics and coding don't count because that's just plain bad coding. There's no advantage what so ever to using a forced 30fps cap and no studio should do it. EVER!
LOL and he is not a Zealot... this is the most mature argument in the whole post Right, but there's a difference between "can be better" and "unacceptable". Yes 60fps is better than 30fps, but no there is nothing wrong with 30fps.
Post edited December 14, 2016 by YaTEdiGo
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YaTEdiGo: TLDR
ad hominems and name calling doesn't do anything to help your argument, nor does strawmaning. No one said 30fps is unplayable. I'm saying that it's unacceptable to release a game in that state
If you're really going to make a GOGmix (or have someone else do it) I think it would be better to have a list of games with FPS caps of all kinds (regardless of how high it is, like for example the Warmastered Edition of Darksiders has a FPS cap of 330). That would be way more informative and useful to people looking for this stuff rather than exclusively focusing on 30FPS because "LOL, it's too low and unacceptable."

As far as the whole 30FPS thing goes, as long as it's a stable 30FPS (and not sub 30 like some games are) I'm fine with it. Undertale and the launch version of Hyper Light Drifter were capped at 30, but I still found those games perfectly playable. Yes, having it at a higher FPS would be preferable, but I really don't consider it the end of the world when they decide to cap as a design choice.
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YaTEdiGo: TLDR
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Magmarock: ad hominems and name calling doesn't do anything to help your argument, nor does strawmaning. No one said 30fps is unplayable. I'm saying that it's unacceptable to release a game in that state
TLDR (Too lame didnt read, in your case)

But well jokes apart, so you are saying that is not unplayable but unacceptable, that is like saying "I like cakes, but is unacceptable to eat cakes" ad hominem? LOL, you alone are portraying yourself like a Zealot and turning your more than acceptable initiative into a joke. I wonder how many good developers are just laughing at you right now. "Mr "Unacceptable" to launch games at 30 FPS" , and you are still trying to define yourself as a non fanatic about this topic.

What it was about that death threats and sickness again?
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RayRay13000: If you're really going to make a GOGmix (or have someone else do it) I think it would be better to have a list of games with FPS caps of all kinds (regardless of how high it is, like for example the Warmastered Edition of Darksiders has a FPS cap of 330). That would be way more informative and useful to people looking for this stuff rather than exclusively focusing on 30FPS because "LOL, it's too low and unacceptable."

As far as the whole 30FPS thing goes, as long as it's a stable 30FPS (and not sub 30 like some games are) I'm fine with it. Undertale and the launch version of Hyper Light Drifter were capped at 30, but I still found those games perfectly playable. Yes, having it at a higher FPS would be preferable, but I really don't consider it the end of the world when they decide to cap as a design choice.
I've made a wish for fps details to be listed under game specs
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/add_framerate_info_to_game_description

As for 30FPS, I'm not saying it's unplayable, I'm saying that it's a bad business move to release it in that state.
Post edited December 14, 2016 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: ad hominems and name calling doesn't do anything to help your argument, nor does strawmaning. No one said 30fps is unplayable. I'm saying that it's unacceptable to release a game in that state
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YaTEdiGo: TLDR (Too lame didnt read, in your case)

But well jokes apart, so you are saying that is not unplayable but unacceptable, that is like saying "I like cakes, but is unacceptable to eat cakes" ad hominem? LOL, you alone are portraying yourself like a Zealot and turning your more than acceptable initiative into a joke. I wonder how many good developers are just laughing at you right now. "Mr "Unacceptable" to launch games at 30 FPS" , and you are still trying to define yourself as a non fanatic about this topic.

What it was about that death threats and sickness again?
Mate in all honesty I don't think you've got the English skills to keep up. You've demonstrated yet again a complete lack of understanding to what I just said. In this day and age it is unacceptable and anti consumer to release a game locked at 30FPS That's not being fanatical those are just the facts, deal with it.
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YaTEdiGo: TLDR (Too lame didnt read, in your case)

But well jokes apart, so you are saying that is not unplayable but unacceptable, that is like saying "I like cakes, but is unacceptable to eat cakes" ad hominem? LOL, you alone are portraying yourself like a Zealot and turning your more than acceptable initiative into a joke. I wonder how many good developers are just laughing at you right now. "Mr "Unacceptable" to launch games at 30 FPS" , and you are still trying to define yourself as a non fanatic about this topic.

What it was about that death threats and sickness again?
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Magmarock: Mate in all honesty I don't think you've got the English skills to keep up. You've demonstrated yet again a complete lack of understanding to what I just said. In this day and age it is unacceptable and anti consumer to release a game locked at 30FPS That's not being fanatical those are just the facts, deal with it.
No its not, many great games are released at 30FPS because their developers need to manage many things that you just simply want to ignore, living as you live, in your little 60FPS world, (Name again language skills or whining will not change this), not even considering that there genres, and platforms, with thousands of modern games that doesn't benefit at all from 60fps.

So no, you are not building any informative list yet, you are just being a Zealot.
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RayRay13000: If you're really going to make a GOGmix (or have someone else do it) I think it would be better to have a list of games with FPS caps of all kinds (regardless of how high it is, like for example the Warmastered Edition of Darksiders has a FPS cap of 330). That would be way more informative and useful to people looking for this stuff rather than exclusively focusing on 30FPS because "LOL, it's too low and unacceptable."

As far as the whole 30FPS thing goes, as long as it's a stable 30FPS (and not sub 30 like some games are) I'm fine with it. Undertale and the launch version of Hyper Light Drifter were capped at 30, but I still found those games perfectly playable. Yes, having it at a higher FPS would be preferable, but I really don't consider it the end of the world when they decide to cap as a design choice.
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Magmarock: I've made a wish for fps details to be listed under game specs
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/add_framerate_info_to_game_description

As for 30FPS, I'm not saying it's unplayable, I'm saying that it's a bad business move to release it in that state.
LOL, enlight us with your business knowledge, jesus is one facepalm after the other...
Post edited December 14, 2016 by YaTEdiGo
I also wish to point out how important 60FPS advocacy is.

Games such as The Evil Within which was first launched with a 30FPS cap was then later patched to include proper framerates and improved FOV and wide-screen support. This is but one of many examples that prove that pushing for higher framerates does get results from the industry. Never be complacent with 30FPS and do not criticise those that demand more. The results speak for themselves.
Post edited December 14, 2016 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: impotent
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Magmarock: impotent
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JMich: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Lol stupid spell checker. Thanks for letting me know.
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Magmarock: I also wish to point out how important 60FPS advocacy is.

Games such as The Evil Within which was first launched with a 30FPS cap was then later patched to include proper framerates and improved FOV and wide-screen support. This is but one of many examples that prove that pushing for higher framerates does get results from the industry. Never be complacent with 30FPS and do not criticise those that demand more. The results speak for themselves.
Which results? LOL sales? This made the studio have such a big difference in results? Or it was just a patch from the developers to add new things to the game, as many other developers do adding content or features not always related with fov or fps issues. Show us the numbers please.

And about quality, is the game much better for running at 60FPS? A TOTALLY different experience? More considering is not even a fast paced game. Or is just only and absolutely a smoother one... and FOV? and altered FOV from what the team wanted to design is better? or just different?

What about calm down with people that don't care about your crusade and not criticise them for accept a good game as it is? What about consider in your gaming equation the other 75% of genres you are just stepping by, or for you "games" are only the ones that can be used to test FPS? Because this is one of the saddest things in "gaming" (if doing benchmarks could ever considered "Gaming"), and that is why people mock about you guys, not because we don't like games at 60fps, but because your short views about everything else.
Post edited December 14, 2016 by YaTEdiGo
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Magmarock: I also wish to point out how important 60FPS advocacy is.

Games such as The Evil Within which was first launched with a 30FPS cap was then later patched to include proper framerates and improved FOV and wide-screen support. This is but one of many examples that prove that pushing for higher framerates does get results from the industry. Never be complacent with 30FPS and do not criticise those that demand more. The results speak for themselves.
It was stated from launch that they'd be working on 60fps. And for the record no the game doesn't have a FOV option and it supported widescreen from the get-go. It however does not have ultrawide support. To tweak the fov or use ultrawide you need a third party app.

And the 60fps "option" (really they just gave it a menu entry) is worse than the 30fps because the framepacing or whatever is off so it actually plays worse at the 60fps lock than it would at 30fps or completely uncapped. Oh and it's not like when it launched all that many people would have been able to maintain a stable 60 in it even if the framepacing wasn't off.
To me - frame rate is one the criterias if a game is good, fun and playable or not, that sits just below other factors such as whether they use too much pink colour, or the names of the characters use too many l's.
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Magmarock: I also wish to point out how important 60FPS advocacy is.

Games such as The Evil Within which was first launched with a 30FPS cap was then later patched to include proper framerates and improved FOV and wide-screen support. This is but one of many examples that prove that pushing for higher framerates does get results from the industry. Never be complacent with 30FPS and do not criticise those that demand more. The results speak for themselves.
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tammerwhisk: It was stated from launch that they'd be working on 60fps. And for the record no the game doesn't have a FOV option and it supported widescreen from the get-go. It however does not have ultrawide support. To tweak the fov or use ultrawide you need a third party app.

And the 60fps "option" (really they just gave it a menu entry) is worse than the 30fps because the framepacing or whatever is off so it actually plays worse at the 60fps lock than it would at 30fps or completely uncapped. Oh and it's not like when it launched all that many people would have been able to maintain a stable 60 in it even if the framepacing wasn't off.
I watched a youtube play the launched version and then decided to try it myself. There was defiantly no widescreen fix in the first release. That's what I meant by FOV. They didn't add an option for it but they did zoom out... bit.
I also played it at 60FPS which was consistent and 100% better then the 30FPS lock. Why is this even an issue, why would anyone think 30 is better. The only time it's not is when the game is poorly coded.
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amok: To me - frame rate is one the criterias if a game is good, fun and playable or not, that sits just below other factors such as whether they use too much pink colour, or the names of the characters use too many l's.
True, but it is one of the most impotent contributions to the games playability and functionality. It's one of the most important cogs in the game engine literately. Framerate has a direct affect on the responsiveness which is what I like to focus on instead of graphics. FPS has a direct affect on the controls and timing of the game. I could go on, but I don't want to leave you with a boring wall of text.
Post edited December 14, 2016 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: True, but it is one of the most impotent contributions to the games playability and functionality. It's one of the most important cogs in the game engine literately. Framerate has a direct affect on the responsiveness which is what I like to focus on instead of graphics. FPS has a direct affect on the controls and timing of the game. I could go on, but I don't want to leave you with a boring wall of text.
*shrug* not to me. It has very little impact and effect (and really no affect :)) on my enjoyment of a game. I play many games, including FPSs, very well and nicely in low framerates.