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clarry: There are workarounds though.
Buying a 120 Hz monitor? :-P
Up to the 144-165, it is noticeably smoother than 60 or 120 and I recommend it to anyone.

But anything above is pretty much pointless. Yes, it still cuts down a few ms of response time (less delay between frames) so it is technically like if you weren't playing at 30 ping but 26-27 for example. But the difference is less and less noticeable the higher you go. Yes, in 1 out of 1000 cases, those 3-4 ms could make a difference but is it worth it for anyone who isn't an E-Sports player? No.

And anyone telling you an eye can't see above 60 frames is objectively wrong.
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clarry: There are workarounds though.
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teceem: Buying a 120 Hz monitor? :-P
More like tweaking some engine variables.
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teceem: Buying a 120 Hz monitor? :-P
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clarry: More like tweaking some engine variables.
I was kidding of course. It's like buying an RTX2080 because some 320x200 pixel game has performance issues on a GTX970. Who does that?
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clarry: More like tweaking some engine variables.
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teceem: I was kidding of course. It's like buying an RTX2080 because some 320x200 pixel game has performance issues on a GTX970. Who does that?
I mean this forum is full of people who would tell someone that they can't play their Quake 3 engine game from early 2000s with their Intel GPU from 2011.. I'm not even joking: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/black_screen/page1 (just one recent example; it has come up time and time again)
Post edited July 01, 2019 by clarry
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Pouyou-pouyou: For turn based strategy games, you could very well be happy with a 10 Hz screen ! :)
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eric5h5: One thing is that it depends somewhat on what you're used to. If all you ever played was 30fps, it can seem smooth. But if you then spend a significant amount of time with 60fps, going back to 30fps seems jittery.
I'll say. I've been playing less demanding games on my laptop at 60 FPS, and when I boot up Bloodstained (which I have capped at 30 FPS to avoid overheating... even though my 940MX could easily handle 40 or 45 FPS, the temps were getting to 80+ in some areas) the jump is jarring for the first few minutes. Luckily, after about ten minutes I don't notice.

To answer the OP directly... I made the jump from a 30hz monitor to a 60hz monitor with this last laptop. Although the gameplay experience is better, generally, I've generally tried to balance gameplay with hardware capacities. Doubling the framerate means doubling the demand on your GPU, and that means you need more powerful hardware to play the same game. And even though the gameplay is smoother, since I game on a laptop I don't see the point in creating extra heat. As I mentioned above, you get used to having the lower frame rates after a while. Insisting on having 60hz (or 144hz) will mean compromises elsewhere, which (when you live in Indonesia or other hot areas) can be fatal for your motherboard. That's why, when I upgrade again and end up (most likely) with a 144hz monitor, I might still limit it to 60 or 90 FPS for more graphics-heavy games.

(As an aside... given that even today's top-of-the-line GPUs have trouble running The Witcher 3 at 60 FPS with "Ultimate" settings, I shudder to imagine the horsepower needed to run it at 144 FPS).
It really depends on the game.
I believe the most proeminet case and what popularized the "FPS thing" was Counter Strike.
Those studies that say eye can't more than 60Hz may be right in theyr context but for gaming this isn't the whole truth. Using CS GO as an exemple:
Game capped at 60FPS and monitor refresh rate set at 60Hz will get you no where in todays style of competitive play. You can have some fun but unless you are totally gifted, forget high tier competitive play.
The game engine is quite good and the more FPS the less input lag and smoother game, even with the monitor at 60hz.
With higher refresh rates, like 144 or 240Hz, we can see the animations smoother and hit much better, I've test this in the past myself.

I'll say this: who ever said more than 60fps or more than 60Hz doesn't matter never played CS-GO competitevelly. Today where most people have pc capable of doing 300fps and many people use 144hz monitors, if using low end stuff simply cant compete with that.

The big problem comparing the "Hz thing" is that monitors are quite intricate pieces of technology and is very difficult to compare directly 60 vs 144Hz, since other stuff is really important as well, like who is testing, response time varies with monitor (even varies with the same monitor at different settings), input lag (the same) etc.... And until today I´ve never seen a good test comparing this, either the tester don't understand games or don't understand technology.

Some people are not as sensible to Fps as others. The most important is the fps doesn't varies during gameplay, other wise it create jerkiness, input lag and small freezes. Playing a game at 30Fps locked is much enjoyable than playing a game that floats around 40fps, going up to 50/60 and drop to 30 sometimes. Playing at locked 30 usually gives more input lag but you kinda get used to it after some time.

Of course, all this depends on the game and I'm pretty much talking about SINGLE player games here (even CSGO I've tested it on single player) Multiplayer it really depends on the server and every one's connection to it.

On "into the breach" I don't even know what fps it runs and I don't care, mouse seem smooth enough.
On "ori and the blind forest", "Guacamelee" and driving games, like "Dirt rally", if it drops constantly from 60fps I prefer to play 30fps locked.
"Skullgirls", "brawlhalla" and other fighting games, anything below 60fps is a no go.
"CS-GO" minimum ~200fps and 144Hz monitor to play competivelly

On a final note, V-Sync creates a HUGE input lag.
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Crisco1492: Doubling the framerate means doubling the demand on your GPU, and that means you need more powerful hardware to play the same game.
Just a small head's up, doubling the Fps will double the GPU usage (you can lower the resolution to compensate) and the CPU usage as well, lower end CPU's can't really do more than 30fps on X game despite the GPU usage.
I have a 144Hz GSync monitor, and while I don't necessarily play anything heavily competitive that would need it, I can certainly feel the framerate differences and try to go as high as I can to maintain smoothness. Dropping down to 60 feels super choppy for me for the first 15-30 minutes of playing something. After that, i tend to adjust or get use to it. That said, even for something like a TBRPG, I'd rather have the camera and animations at higher FPS if I can just to keep things smooth.

I think GSync made a bigger difference for me since FPS drops don't feel as completely choppy or nasty as they use to. I tend to adapt better to changes.
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Crisco1492: Doubling the framerate means doubling the demand on your GPU, and that means you need more powerful hardware to play the same game.
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Dark_art_: Just a small head's up, doubling the Fps will double the GPU usage (you can lower the resolution to compensate) and the CPU usage as well, lower end CPU's can't really do more than 30fps on X game despite the GPU usage.
Ah, I didn't notice the CPU doubling (the 8550u I have is more than sufficient for most needs). Thanks for the heads up, though.
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Dark_art_: Those studies that say eye can't more than 60Hz may be right in theyr context but for gaming this isn't the whole truth.
There have never been any studies which said that though. There have been some uneducated claims by random people, but any actual studies show there's no defined upper limit.
Post edited July 02, 2019 by eric5h5
A bit of reading on that subject.
Anyone who says your brain can't notice higher HZ is full of crap. I said that shit too before I bought a new monitor.

When I switched to my 144hz monitor it was mind blowing. Not so much at first, but when I played CS I noticed it was smoother—you begin to wonder why people aren't seeing you come around a corner as fast as you're seeing them.
Now, when I watch anyone play a game on 30/60hz it's laggy (like my son on his TV), almost like slideshow. It's crazy and hard to imagine I dealt with that for so many years.

Going from 144hz to 244hz isn't nearly as nuts as it was from the initial 30/60 to 144, but the difference is still noticeable.
Some people don't notice the difference at first, until they try to go back to a lower HZ.

There's no way in the world I'd ever go below 144hz again.

Higher HZ also does make a difference in some older games because depending on the monitor you got it can draw frames faster and it's just a bit more smoother experience.

If you have decent hardware you're wasting it by not having a higher HZ monitor at this point in time.
Post edited July 02, 2019 by Flesh420.613
I don't really notice above 60 to be honest. I have a 144hz monitor and I leave it in that mode because of G-Sync, but whether something is running at 60ish fps or 100ish fps I can't really tell. I just finished Alien Isolation, which ran around 100-120fps, and now I'm playing the Tomb Raider reboot, which runs around 60-70fps, and I can't tell a difference at all.

I do VERY much notice when I drop below 60 though. Maybe now with G-Sync I wouldn't notice dropping to 55 or so like I did before when I used V-Sync, but anything lower than that is very obvious I feel. I haven't played a locked to 30fps game in a long time because of the genres I play, but it definitely drives me nuts when it happens. In fact reading the OP and now knowing about Force Unleashed, that puts that game way back on the list of things to get around to. Bummer.

P.S. G-Sync is amazing and everyone should upgrade to it (or FreeSync). No more V-Sync stutter, no more increased input lag, no tearing, just smoooooooth as butter gameplay. It's amazing.
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teceem: Some games in your list were definitely not made to be fast pacest: STALKER, Metro, and even Max Payne (1 & 2, a lot more cinematic and not nonstop action).

Well, in the context of movies there's just 25/30 fps or the very recent 60 fps. There's no (AFAIK) going beyond that threshold at the moment.

I know that there are a few 240 Hz gaming monitors out there. I can't really experience it without buying one - but I just can't imagine that with the kind of games I play and how I play them - that I'll ever notice much of a difference.
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ariaspi: But you do need to aim smooth and quickly in these games. At 30 FPS I feel the lag affecting my precision while aiming. Anyway, the way I see it, if the gameplay has sudden moves in it (aiming, steering in a racing game), then it's definitely better to have 60 FPS ore more.

I think The Hobbit had 45 FPS.

Most people are probably fine with 100-120 Hz, so the now standard 144 Hz for high refresh rate monitors will suit anybody.
This......increased rates help with lag/etc but a person can only move their mouse so fast manually, so extremely high rates don't offer much of a return past a certain point.

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Pouyou-pouyou: For turn based strategy games, you could very well be happy with a 10 Hz screen ! :)
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eric5h5: Only if there's no animation to speak of. All of the newer Civs, Age of Wonders 3, etc. are all nicer to play at 60fps.

One thing is that it depends somewhat on what you're used to. If all you ever played was 30fps, it can seem smooth. But if you then spend a significant amount of time with 60fps, going back to 30fps seems jittery. I don't currently have a monitor that goes past 60Hz, but when I had a CRT monitor, it could run lower resolutions (<1024x768) at 120Hz. I played Quake 2 like that for a while, and it was really slick. Going back to 60fps was noticeably less smooth, until I eventually got used to it again.

Note the requirement for VR to be >100Hz. Even if you think you can't really see a difference, your brain notices.
Your subconcious/etc brain might notice, but it's one's conscious thought processes and how one "sees" things on the fly/atm that should count more, imo.

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idbeholdME: Up to the 144-165, it is noticeably smoother than 60 or 120 and I recommend it to anyone.

But anything above is pretty much pointless. Yes, it still cuts down a few ms of response time (less delay between frames) so it is technically like if you weren't playing at 30 ping but 26-27 for example. But the difference is less and less noticeable the higher you go. Yes, in 1 out of 1000 cases, those 3-4 ms could make a difference but is it worth it for anyone who isn't an E-Sports player? No.

And anyone telling you an eye can't see above 60 frames is objectively wrong.
You might be able to 'see' it but your conscious mind cannot discern much difference beyond a certain threshold due to how human phsyiology/etc works.

Simply put: The body/brain has limits.
Post edited July 02, 2019 by GameRager