No tricks, a genuine question.

Yeah, unless docbear impresses before deadline I suppose she is an okay lynch / definitely better than none, but, egh, glad cristi is okay to hammer, I wouldn't feel good about it, errr, I don't have a good feeling about it.

don't know why more ppl can't see their way to lift either, I don't understand that for a lot of people

I think I understand the "a possibility to garner something of substance", but as dedoporno said that doesn't say anything about the other Miller claim. Unless, you're indirectly saying that the only claim you don't believe is HijacK's one. But your next comment doesn't seem to support such a belief?


I want to believe, and certainly hope, that there's some mechanic/ability in play that can shed sufficient light to clear the situation. I mean, if there's no way to test and verify/debunk the Miller claims, then we have a very serious problem, and I'd like to think that RWarehall is not that much of a bastard mod to tip the game against town before it even starts.



The proof may not be in the flip itself, and/or come at the time of the flip.


I'm still undecided if I buy the claims, but also not sure if lynching either of them is the way to go Today.


Unless you think me to have mind-reading powers, no.

I understand the influence from MU, and the preference to lynch scummy players, but perhaps keeping in mind that we have no MU players in this game may be a good idea; clearing someone as town for a single cross-post doesn't sound particularly wise to me.



I'm not cherry picking at all, quite the contrary. What I'm not sure, though, is if you missed my questioning of and exchanges with trentonlf on the matter, or just pretending to do so. I mean if you actually missed it, in the part you quoted there's a line that should have tipped you of, namely [emphasis added]: Go read my post #427 - a good number of those that "have been consistently present all D1", including the three you mention by name, are listed as already having reacted. Then read his response, then go over my follow-up post #489.

So yeah, when 2ds after the reactions of a number of actives, his argument, that Ifelt I had to drag out of him, is "I was hoping to see more people weigh in on it:, it begs the question if he was waiting for "the lowest volume posters", as you put it.

I'm in no hurry. No reason not to give everyone a chance to say what they have to say.

@drealmer - the longer docbear doesn't post, the better I feel about this hammer. Her last post reads 2 days ago. I think town-docbear at least tries to present a case.


On a totally unrelated note, psyched there is a new episode of The Great British Baking show tonight (for US viewers). Not sure why, I don't like to bake but love this show.

So, it's (again) something that has to do with you. You tend to scum or town read people too much in relation to how they react to you This is something not particularly AI, more so for you, but you may want to consider that it may be one of the reasons people don't listen to you as much as you'd like them to.


You know, drealmer7, instead of yelling and devoting so many words to something that ma or may not be particularly relevant to the current gamestate, you could have answered my question about Sage103082.


And how exactly would the one on the chopping block know that if it's not a clear case of two public votes so they can claim at L-2?


IMO, the players are going to play the game the way they want/ see fit based on the setup as they read/understand it, their alignment, their PM and win-condition. And I'd assume that most don't strategise and plan their actions starting with "Now, let's see what the mod wants us to do".

No offence, but I think that "the mod intended this/that/whatever and we should play according to it" is a personal gripe of yours, as I felt was demonstrated in the game you hosted with all those rules, conditions and penalties. I probably shouldn't have brought it up in the game-thread, and at this point, so perhaps it's better if whatever you have to say on the matter waits until post-game.


You're a genuine Miller. You know you investigate and flip scum, if of the Death Miller variety. You keep mum on D1, because "the mod has a plan".
You get investigated N1. Whatever the mod planned with another mechanic/ability doesn't take place at the same Night.
Cop comes out and says "I cop-ed drealmer7, he's scum". Nobody else has anything else to offer to counter this result, and anything you did N1 is most likely viewed through the scum-lens..
You claim Miller. Do the rest buy it, and give you a chance for something to clear the situation? Or do they lynch you, upon which you also flip scum, if of the Death Miller variety?

Anything that could clear you doesn't happen until end D2 (if regular Miller) or N2, but you're likely already dead. So, what is the benefit of claiming D2 instead of D1?

Or do you still not claim?

I would bet there is something in the game to balance such things. I have zero knowledge of anything. It just seems logical.

I know you were asking Hyper, but I also want to answer this because I think we are going to have a bad lynch. I think docbear is still new at playing and struggling to convey her thoughts after someone else has said the same thing she is thinking. As I said before I see her play as town, but someone new to the game and struggling. I think scum are using that to their advantage and lynching a townie.

I still say Hijack is full it and should be the lynch, but unfortunately it looks like that's not happening.

And this is exactly what I told yogsloth a few posts earlier. Everyone and their cat can go "Hey, i didn't know about the no role flips mechanic, and I'm hardly the only, so don't hold it against me, and most certainly don't scum-read any of my evolving/contradicting arguments".

And I do hold it against them, in the sense I already explained to yogsloth.

Your case, though, is a bit more interesting as you admit of having read the sign-up thread, yet claim to have forgotten that said mechanic is in play. Seems like a pretty important thing to forget, imo.



Elaborate?



How nice. Joking the hot potato off. And still no arguments how the possible scenarios you casually threw out there could actually be in play. I'm inclined to call it mudslinging, and of the worse kind - the kind you know you've got nothing to even seemingly try to make a case.


I like how you quote a different part of the same post I used to make your point as if you didn't say what I quoted, and completely ignore the earlier one I quoted (post #332) where you clearly said: I'm not trying to misrepresent the topic of your exchanges with HijacK, and for someone not missing a chance to point out how drealmer7 uses certain arguments, you seem to have adopted this tactic quite a bit yourself.

But no, you didn't answer my question. I read a lot of words that have nothing to do with my question besides "I didn't say a SK would claim a role that investigates and flips Mafia", which isn't exactly true. So, let's go over your arguments and try this again.

Your understanding was that HijacK claimed having a killing power, aka being a Miller-Vigilante.
But you don't believe his claim to be true, or that he's even town, hence his killing power is not that of a Vigilante.
You go on to say that since you don't believe him, you guess he's scum or "neutral". And you bring this twice into your arguments.

So, fact remains that in your arguments you clearly entertain the idea of him being scum or a "neutral" (I personally don't like the term "neutral" when we're talking about third-party roles with a killing ability, but whatever).

My question is why do you take it into consideration the case of him being a third-party role with a killing power when he claimed Miller that investigates and flips Mafia. I mean, I understand town going with all sorts of conditionals as a result of being in the uninformed group, but as I've said in a previous game, there's a limit to it when factoring in what could logically be in play.

You are obviously not going to explain how any of the scenarios of the happy scum-duos or happy scum-trios could have legs. Any chance you're going to explain this bit?

*comes slinking in*

Well I didn't mean to disappear for a couple of days. I am utterly ashamed of myself and the way I've played. I deserve to be lynched. I think the fairest thing to do is bring the hammer down on myself. I realize I'm probably committing a cardinal sin, but at this point I think it's the best way to proceed.


[Vote Docbear1975b]

You're really asking The Reluctant Voter™?

Wow. This I don't like. Makes zero sense to self-hammer like this, something is going on here. Yog, I hope you're here before RW comes in.

Oh crap.

If you have anything to say you better do it now.

Bump.