So Lift saw that you were under pressure (and knew that you were town) and decided to push me (who he would also know was town) to try and gain town cred and pocket you?
And did so in such a way that he ended up getting lynched?
Does that really seem likely?

I said it was possible Lift was going for adalia's mislynch, I have no idea if it would have been a mislynch because as far as I'm concerned adalia can still be the last scum.

It obviously was not or adalia would have been lynched.

ask adalia, he was the one town reading him not me. My whole point was if I was lynched then he would gain more town cred by seeing me as more town than scum when I flipped town.


Back when?



I don't know what y'all discussed in the scum chat so you tell me.

Anyone know when Drealmer will be around? I assume only tomorrow...

Hyper, hyper...

I threw shade at you because I find you shady. Doesn't mean I'll vote you. Doesn't mean you're the shadiest. Do you really think you're - or should be - above suspicion?


I will definitively go back and evaluate both: your / Adalia's narrative that "Lift panicked and overeacted to pressure on Trent, etc"... and Trent's terser narrative of "Lift was angling for credibility in the event of Trent's mislynch". I also want Drealmer's thoughts before going back though.

So you could say right now I don't have a narrative / definitive conclusion.

.
.
.

Thank god there isn't much to distract from. You might think I'm scummy otherwise...

What my walls of text have that yours lack is structure. This has nothing to do (attn! - hyperbole, just like the "taking nothing" earlier) with me being a sub - I would have more context otherwise but would still find your style awkward. I am not being disingenuous when I ask / push you to offer synthesis. I had a similar back and forth with others - Bler in Oakwood game comes to mind. That said I do not claim to be perfect at communication - in fact my frustration with you is to a large degree caused by my own struggles to structure my posts.
PS: and really hyper, mine are shorter than yours... and fewer. So kindly refrain from the implicit accusation of hypocrysy ok?

Note what the above is not - I am not asking you to leave the details behind. I am ok with how dense your posts are with factual / detail observations (even if I will only speedread them until need for more arises) - I am asking for you to frame them more.
PS: I still don't know who oddjob is (since you mention N2 NK perhaps RW? would it have killed you to write two letters?), I don't even rem who my role name is, and I haven't checked (on purpose, to make this point) but ofc believe you that trent - hyper was excluded from the start - oh what a slip! Maybe you think that was me faking a derp?


@Adalia

Would you care to comment on the communication issues Hyper and I seem to have here? You kind of get what I am saying? I don't mind him giving us so many trees, treees, treeeeees - I just find it odd that he seems to often refuse to actually be explicit with the forest - when it's super obvious he does see a forest. Is this the way he normally plays? If yes, why do you think he does it?

So, no comment then.
And I thought you were no longer sure I was Lift's buddy? But as soon as I push you again at all it must be because I'm scum right?

Hyper is Hyper. He has played this game exactly how he always played. I would say he plays this way because it works, as the Lift lynch shows (I'd like to think I played a part in that, but Hyper definitely did the legwork there to get Lift to incriminate himself). To be honest I haven't really followed what the two of you have been saying close enough to know what you are even discussing... I'm fairly certain it's town noise.
I would literally eat my hat if Hyper turns out to be scum this game.

I'm asking you as you are the one that used the term "more" in your argument as to why Lifthrasil reacted the way he did.
Now, I'm not a native English speaker, but, if I'm not terribly mistaken, for there to be "more" of something, there has to be "some" of it in the first place. Since you were scum-reading Lifthrasil, genuine or not aside, I find it at least interesting that you saw (see?) him as having "some" town cred in the first place, and argue that taking your side would net him "more".


Back when he put adaliabooks at L-1, of course. So, did it?

Here we go again... Didn't I just tell you that I do understand it if someone who entered the game a couple of days ago is suspicious of me? Didn't I also tell you that drealmer7 most likely will agree with you? While I do understand that someone in your shoes may well be suspicious of me, and while I don't think I should be above suspicion for them, neither is said someone, nor should they be. I do, however, also think the following.

You find my style awkward and get frustrated because it makes you struggle to structure your own posts, and this appears to be the basis of your suspicion. Which you then go to find something to support. And from everything I've said and done two Days now, you come back with something from early D1 (my pick reveals), and selectively with something from late D2/early D3 (my use of in-game role names).
If your idea of "synthesis" and "framing posts more" is to cling on things that are by nature subject to interpretation, and can't actually be proven one way or the other, then sorry, that's not how I operate.

I make my cases laying out the things I see as supportive evidence, sticking to what has been said and done within the context of the timeline of events, and leave it up to others to go check the events for themselves and see if they see what I see or not. You won't see me using narratives like my sarcastic comment (post #654) as (serious) arguments to make my case; from where I'm standing that's more speculation than (actual) argument, even if someone had said it seriously.


You're one to talk about trees. Dodging, once again, the actual point of my reply to you, and steering the focus back to the in-game role names. How nice.

You seem to deliberately try to irritate me in hope of me slipping and/or making a mistake you could then exploit as either alignment; not going to happen.

For the last time, if you are town, you may want to reflect on how much, and in what ways, you've contributed to scum broadening their options for D3, N3 and D4. My goal is to end the game Today with a town victory, but so far you seem to act as a road-block. Timeline of previous events, gogtrial34987's actions excluded, suggest that you are over-cautious and misguided town, but I can't rule out that you may be scum; gogtrial34987 subbed out just when they had to make an actual stance, and you haven't really made it into the town-camp (yet?).

So clearly both me and Hyper must be scum then.

I would be hounding drealmer too... but there's really no point at the moment is there.

Hmmm... appreciated reply. Could you expand on the quote though? What exactly did Hyper bring to the table?

An "alternative narrative" would be that RW did the legwork, Hyper jumped on for the bus - to maybe seal the win and get himself lock town. You would ofc jump on the wagon, to save your own skin if nothing else. And then between me or Trent someone might or not lynch his buddy - Drealmer had said he would stay away from the wagon afterall.

I'm not faking this - I admit(ted) I am likely not in command of the full details on how things progressed, but for me in particular, it was looking at the wagons so far, and how Lift was kind of floating around that made me ok with hammering him and seeing what would happen.

Or in other words, what exactly did Lift do that incriminated himself? He didn't confess - I would have noticed that. Is it how he made himself scarse and avoided answering stuff?



Hyper, let's do this your way and see if I get across better.

No? Maybe? If yes I sure didn't register it. Going from past history I actually expect Drealmer will come in and accuse me. Let's wait and see shall we?

Also he'll agree with what? With my proposal to park you? If so great.

No. I find your style awkward BECAUSE of your lack of structure. Also I struggle to structure my own posts, and your (self-admitted) refusal to do so grates. And that's far from being the basis of my suspicion, although it does contribute.

Please with the strawman... what I call "synthesis" and "framing posts more" is clearly what you are unwilling to do due to your considering it speculation. I think if you provide EXPLICITLY the narrative that informs your "supportive evidence" that would help you get your message across. You seem to disagree.

And really hyper, in this game almost everything is subject to interpretation... we all know how stuff gets proven. Heck, you just asked Trent if he would be willing to "test" his alignment. A nice euphemism that was...

As to your modus operandi, it is indeed becoming clearer. Doesn't mean I have to like it. But I won't argue with results. Are you responsible for the results though? Feel free to answer what I asked Adalia above.

I told you now three times that whatever point you think you are making is getting lost in translation. So maybe do what I am asking you to do and lay it out in the open? I'm sure there's some "supportive evidence" behind your interpretation / speculation, but you don't need to give me the evidence when I am asking you just for the overall picture.

Abrasive is my middle name. Although really, there is no me in us.

Now this is somethign to sink my teeth into. Only is it actually?

For one, what the heck am I road blocking? I thought we were getting to know each other... Killing time and nothing else (read no one else) before Drealmer comes back.

Then hopefully I get his narrative - it being Drealmer more likely they will be plural though - and then I go reread Lift very carefully.

If you have different plans... well, I don't see your vote. I see you pushing Trent, but if you think that kind of push will get him to crack you won't let me disabuse you of that notion.

I am half curious what you thought was the "single path to victory" or whatever you want to call it, that you consider I have compromised. But really, better left unsaid in case there actually is such a thing that your genious is able to capitalize on. For us mere mortals, looks to me like a bunch of kabuki theater mate.

hehehe... now that's a first :)

LOL, clearly you are reaching. I've already stated numerous times that I think Hyper is town and since his playstyle is pushing people why would I say he was scum all of a sudden? You on the other hand have been trying to ride his coat tails most of the game and I have no issue seeing you as the final scum.

heh

supportive evidence? plz

Can I expect a response to my post?



I'm undecided what the degree you play dense is, just to push, what you perceive as, my buttons.

Anyway.

Regarding drealmer7 - the bit you quoted is in continuation to the part you left out in your quote, hence the answer to your question "he'll agree with what?" is pretty obvious. But if you really really want me to say it for the third time, here, I'll rephrase it - going from past and recent history, he'll agree on your suspicion of me, of course.

In regards to my question to trentonlf if he'd be willing to put his theory to the test - since you choose to play dense, that was another nudge, just like my questions to him in my first post of the Day.

Regarding the lack of structure of my posts - you insist so much on this that I'm at the point where I believe I actually don't understand what sort of structure you want/expect of me. Would you like to make it clear for me with an example or two?

As for the "synthesis" and "framing posts more" - well yeah, I don't see a place for speculation when town makes a case, and I do expect everyone to go check things and decide for themselves when I make one. I don't necessarily make a case to sway votes on the spot, I'm often (more) interested in the reactions and possible counter-arguments, based on events.

How shall I put it... you come across as expecting me to frame my posts in a manner that allows you, instead of going over the events and decide for yourself, to judge my narrative under the lens of your suspicion, and speculate as to my motives so that they support/fit your suspicion and your narrative, just like you did with that "alternative narrative". All while admitting you're not up with all the details of how things unfolded. Well, in this case, you're right that I'm not willing to do that.


How about "no", and you go back and see how things unfolded for yourself? Preferably with a bit of effort towards objectivity. Best would be to read from the beginning of D2, but if you don't want to, I suggest you start at post #458.

Whether you do it now, or wait until after drealmer7 shows up, is up to you. And no, I'm not doing this to spite you.


My point was very much in the open, since I first made it. Here, let me point you to it [emphasis added]:

I suppose it depends how you look at it.
RWarehall was already on Lift and had him as his main candidate, but it was Hyper voting trent that seemed to elicit action from Lift (voting me) that eventually led to his lynch. And it was Hyper's questioning of my town read on Lift that made me look at him in a different light.
I had expressed an interest in lynching Lift if we could get enough votes on him to RW, after Hyper voted him too it seemed like a viable wagon and I joined, after which it was probably inevitable that Lift would be hammered by one of the remaining three players.
If Hyper hadn't placed that vote (and kept the pressure on Lift to keep him talking) then I'm not sure we would have lynched him. Hyper placed that vote knowing it would likely snowable into Lift's lynch, so it's hard to see it as a scum move when he could easily have joined another wagon or just stayed on trent without arousing suspicion at all. And it was Hyper's interactions with Lift that made him come off most suspicious.

As for what Lift did... he voted me. A day after unvoting me and saying I might be on to something (with trent and drealmer as scum), but we should lynch drealmer first. When Hyper voted trent and it looked like trent was the more likely lynch of the two Lift suddenly changed his mind and I must be scum and had to die.

And looking back, drealmer's joining of the wagon did come off quite suspicious... but I'm really not sure what to make of it. It's the kind of hammer (and previous behaviour to the hammer) I would do when scum... particularly if there is day chat and Lift said it would be better for drealmer to be on the wagon when he flipped than off.

trent is my big scum read, he's giving me all kinds of scum vibes. drealmer has too, but it's really hard to tell how much of that is just drealmer being drealmer. And really I'd like to at least give him a chance to defend himself before I really make my mind up one way or the other.

[emphasis added]

Elaborate, in what way would it be better for drealmer7 to be on the wagon?


On a side note, Lifthrasil had resorted to dodging and deflecting during those last couple of days, there was no actual talking from him, a clear sign that the pressure had achieved all it could. I decided it was time to take it to the next level (vote), and his response was to fold.

what a stupid fucking ban, holyhell

serious RL shit been going on, you probably aren't going to get much from me, I have no energy or focus, but I'll try to address things, but I haven't read much of what you've all been saying

I said what I said about not voting lift because the quick shift of the wagon was very quick and I found the quickness very disconcerting, but when I shook that off and settled, lift was still likely scum and a good lynch, so I voted him (duh)

gogtrial/brasas are my top TR now because I think if gogtrial had been scum he'd have hammered adalia (there was a lot of opportunity for him to, and it wouldn't have been suspect at all, imo) instead of letting things fester and eventually fall off adalia

I find HSL extremely scummy, adalia extremely scummy, and trent very towny

in experiences in the past I've SR townHSL and townadalia for similar things to what I'm SRing them for in this game, here it's like amped up to 11, so it is really hard for me to decide on these 2 either way, if I had to pick 1 of these 2 for scum, ehhhh, I still really don't know, which makes me want to pick neither of them and:

just vote trent because my record for how I read trent (again, I read him towny, means he's scum) supports that, but that doesn't make it easy or comfortalbe, and believe me, I'd like it to stop being like that, it's maddening

does anyone have any specific points for me they'd like me to talk about? any questions I missed? please try to keep them brief and pointed, thanks