It's not the "I pride myself on playing town as scum", and GammaEmerald doesn't count as you did push for him, made a case, voted him, and are still voting him.

It's also not as simple as "if I were scum, I'd probably have joined a push on one of the many "exploitable people" in the game. Could be Adalia, Drealmer, Lift, Trent,". I'm pretty sure you factor in odds, and are too experienced to push players that have little chance of actually getting mislynched; the last thing you'd want as scum is to have a record of joining pushes until one of them gains enough traction to secure a mislynch.

As for opening up on Hunter65536, that's pretty much the argument both town and scum would easily make. Plus the way you went about it did attract attention, the sort of attention scum would want it to attract if/when pursuing a mislynch.



Because of this? The longer the game lasts, the harder it gets for scum to secure mislynches, especially given the following:
1. They lose the benefit/advantage of day chat after D1 if we manage to lynch scum Today.
2. The matrix will keep narrowing down the pool of players the remaining scum is in.
3. NKs may narrow down the pool of players they can hide in even further.


I agree with all that, I'm just saying that they don't have to be blatantly pushing the mislynch; it's easier to steer things to a successful mislynch early in the game than it is later, and so far it looks like they're succeeding if all the lynch candidates are town.


I've already said that I won't vote adaliabooks Today, and I'm still too worried that drealmer7 may flip town. It comes down between GammaEmerald and Hunter6553, but I want to hear more from both of them before voting, and I do hope they show up today; neither one will look any better if they don't until too close to deadline.

The fact that GammaEmerald said nothing except apologise and give a reason for his absence when he showed up last night, certainly does not do him any favours.
I'm also not impressed by Hunter6553' silence after his "I couldn't care less if you lynch me".

I've done some thinking for the case we lynch scum, and wonder if the benefit of which players we could clear outweighs that of how many. I've also done some thinking regarding how the NK may go, but not sure how we could make use of that.
Of course, if the player lynched flips town, then we gain nothing from the matrix, but, as Lifthrasil already said, we have interactions and positions to look into, hopefully with the aid of the N1 NK.

I've always noticed the way you seem to be the one to continuously ask questions while not really answering anyone else's. In addition, all you seem to do is pass shade. I do find it mildly concerning that we both seem to have arrived at the same two candidates out of day 1, but you can't help but paint me as potentially scummy. If I didn't already have you as town, it almost seems as though you know both are mislynches and are setting me up for the Day 2 mislynch.

I think it should be pretty obvious. Playing the odds, as you say, is not finding a candidate out of the blue to mislynch on day 1. What happens if we chose Hunter to lynch and he flips town? Was that me really "playing the odds" correctly? Nah, I think the scum do what they usually do on Day 1. Sit back, eat popcorn, and watch town do themselves in with non-controversial efforts to appear townly. Their only problem is if "town groupthink" is correct, then they have to consider whether it's worth trying to deflect or throw their buddy under the bus.

Gentlemen, and lady, your time grows short.

[emphasis added]

Now, who's passing shade ever so subtly and smoothly? If you've noticed all these damning for me things this game, I can't help but wonder why you have me as town.


Actually, these two are the ones out of the four on the table I'm wiling to look at Today, and I've given my reasons for it. I suspect you, and If we had any PRs and I were a Cop, I'd investigate you to know for certain, but that is not an option this game.


If I were scum,and doing what you say, I hope I'd be doing a better job at not getting on your radar, especially so early in the game.

I pray Hunter65536 flips scum if he goes down, as that would clear you and put my mind to rest; believed it or not, I prefer you to be on our side. Same goes for GammaEmerald as that would come with the big benefit of taking drealmer7 off the table once and for all.


My comment about the odds was more in relation to the other players you had mentioned; go back and reread my post, it's pretty obvious. But I wouldn't file it as "out of the blue" if it's done in a way that attracts the right for scum sort of attention; I didn't exactly see anyone go "hey, where did this come from out of a sudden".

As for the sitting back, I've already given my impression of your play, and I can't say that you've said or done anything since that has alleviated my doubts or suspicions. As I said to adaliabooks, it may turn out I'm overcautious, but I'd rather be that and proven wrong by facts than lulled into a potentially false sense of safety.

Anyway, Lifthrasil's post #319 has me going to check a few things closer.



You may well be on to something. And reading your post reminded me of the game where he was the 2-shot SK. I think a reread of that is in order, as I skipped it when I checked his previous games.



Hunter65536, if you are town, you are really not helping yourself, or town this way. This may well be your last chance.

now it is "disappeared" for "several days", eh?

ok fine I can vote trent too

When you have to be proded by the mod and you have not posted for 3 days what would you call it? An extended vacation? A complete lack of respect for any and all other players and mods in the game? A piss poor attitude? So yes you disappeared for several days and yes it was a bad thing to do.

Because for each of the combinations, I'm leaning to the other side of the pair, and because the amount of meaningful interaction each of them has had with the other can be counted on the thumbs of one hand. And that only if you stretch the definition of meaningful. Scum not making any attempt at distancing like that feels unlikely to me.
Although, checking up if there really was as little as I thought I remembered, I did just now get pinged quite strongly by drealmer's #296 "there are other ppl who I think are more scummy with more content in the game, hunter (and gamma and gogtrial, for that matter) are of not-much interest atm today", where I'd read past that the first time.

And suddenly I see scum-drealmer everywhere... (Will need to look at this afresh tomorrow morning; I might very well be suffering from being overly tired after a too full evening.) @all when drealmer is town, does he usually have very few townreads? This reminds me quite a bit of smurfia-scum drealmer, where his townreads were purportedly limited to 1 (trent).

Interesting. I rated that particular post as fluff, because I see it as stating the exceedingly obvious, and thus a total filler comment.

Can't disagree with the other references, though.

@HSL: For comparison's sake, how are you reading Lift, and if town, any posts to highlight?


Anyway, that's mostly a sidetrack. For what's at hand now, I'm willing to join three of the four possible wagons adalia outlined in #313, but like HSL, would prefer seeing Gamma and Hunter chime in before I do. I'll be around much more tomorrow than I was today. Probably won't manage to stay online until day's end, but will be sure to cast my vote well before then.

So looks like about 18 hours to go and no response from either Hunter or Gamma. With Drealmer adamant to not vote either one, we need all but 1 person left to establish a lynch. Not sure what their plan is, maybe trying to wait us out and see if we cannot get enough to lynch them?

Okay, got until drealmer's "defence" of me (about lift sabotaging my reveal, honestly wasnt going for that) and if my lynch goes through today lynch him d2. One thing that really struck me odd was when he said don't you read messages to adalia when he was under pressure which seemed odd. He was framing adalia I guess. Will post more in couple of hours and answer everything.
@all Lost my cool and lashed out, sorry about that.

End of day - 3/14/17

Votecount
Hunter65536 (2): trentonlf, adaliabooks
GammaEmerald (2): RWarehall, Lifthrasil
adaliabooks (1): drealmer7
RWarehall (1): Hunter65536

Not Voting: GammaEmerald, gogtrial34987, HypersomiacLive

Hunter65536 and GammaEmerald are closest to lynch at L-3.

End of Day 1 is Wednesday, March 15 at 5:00 PM EST, 9:00 PM GMT (edited to account for DST)

Votes must be submitted by the deadline to be counted. Once a lynch occurs or the deadline is reached, you are welcome to continue posting until Bookwyrm or I close the thread.

By the deadline, if Gamma has not posted or communicated the ability to rejoin us, I will for look for a replacement.

These numbers don't make sense to me together. GMT is currently ~07:30. That means that 21:00 GMT is in 13 hours and 30 minutes. Yet "3 hours ago" (according to gog), you said it was less than that.

But either way, looks like I will be around until deadline after all to help secure a lynch.

Good catch. The U.S. had Daylight Saving Time this weekend. Didn't account for that. We will go with the later time:
9:00 PM GMT which is now 5:00 PM EST.

So. 7 hours to go and still no Gamma and only a short 'sorry' post from Hunter.
Hunter is right in one resepect: drealmer's 'message' post to adalia is strange, as is his 'defense' of Hunter. IF Hunter really is town, the question is: what wanted drealmer to achieve by that? Would scum drealmer try to make Hunter look bad by defending him badly? Or was (town?) drealmer just desperately looking for anything he could disagree upon with me?

In any case, let's have another look at the two leading suspects:
Hunter - still appears scummy. Maybe he really just 'lost his cool' - though town-Hunter wouldn't have as much reason to lose his cool under a bit of pressure as scum-Hunter would. If he is scum and we lynch him, we basically win the game with that. If he is town and we mislynch him, we lose a player who is normally quite strong.
Gamma - if he doesn't appear, he'll have to be replaced and his replacement will be difficult to read. We had that topic. Replacements make the game more difficult for town. If Gamma is scum and we lynch him, we clear drealmer (and gogtrial, who doesn't need clearing as badly, IMO). If Gamma is town and we mislynch him, we lose an absent player but prevent a replacement.

So a loss of town-Gamma would hurt less than a loss of town-Hunter. But the gain of flipping scum-Hunter would be bigger than the gain of flipping scum-Gamma. So, do we go the high-risk, high-reward route (Hunter) or play it safe and go the lower-risk, lower-reward route (Gamma)?

For now I'll stick to Gamma. The replacement made the last game really difficult, so for the moment 'playing it safe' doesn't sound bad to me. But I'll check in before the deadline again and put my vote (between my four suspects) wherever it is needed to avoid a no-lynch.