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General discussionForum Mafia #32: Booze, Blood and Bullets: The Prohibition(1735 posts)(1735 posts)
(1735 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 19, 2015
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dedoporno: As far as flub's concerned nothing happened last night.
Whut??
Posted November 19, 2015
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flubbucket: Whut??
There is a "since" missing there.
Posted November 19, 2015
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flubbucket: Whut??
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dedoporno: There is a "since" missing there.
Okay.

But what I'm seeing is there is a sense missing. I guess it could make sense, but it doesn't at the moment.
Posted November 19, 2015
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flubbucket: Okay.

But what I'm seeing is there is a sense missing. I guess it could make sense, but it doesn't at the moment.
Let me re-phrase. You didn't report anything that happened to you Today. Others didn't report anything that they found out about you Today. Therefore nothing should be different about your person in terms of common knowledge. Which means you should still be the most scummy and vote-worthy player for Leonard. He chose to vote you with a massive (and a very decent one imo) wagon going on so he should have been real sold on you. Where is that Today?

More sense now?
Posted November 19, 2015
Crystal Clear.
Posted November 19, 2015
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Leonard03: Whaaat? Where did I do that.
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bler144: On the first point, I went back and read all your posts related to Ix, and the good news for you is that I'm not seeing what he means either. In post #349 you quote Ix talking about role fishing, but as best I can tell his portrayal isn't what happened.

I'd like to hear Ix explain what he means.
Bler it was this post here:

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Ixamyakxim: No but really I have nothing new at the moment. Normally I'd be all over you for role fishing but in this case it's actually the discussion I want to see.
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Leonard03: Drat! I was going to ask about this but Bookwyrm beat me to it. I had even started the post but then break ended :(

I wanted to ask something else but I can't remember what it was, and I need to go now.
Moreover, he does it in a way without actually offering it up "on his own" - I find it very scummy when someone offers very little of their own, yet still gets in a "chip" without having to make the attack on their own.

He effectively said nothing new, but mentioned that he was "totally going to say what Bookwyrm already said" and then even alludes to having something new to offer... but doesn't.

This combined with the general tone of his posts and his vote at the end of Day One are what have me lumping him in with Bookwyrm as potential scum.

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cristigale: Question for anyone - do you find drealmer's push for adalia's lynch noteworthy?
I do. But not for scum reasons.
Posted November 19, 2015
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dedoporno: I got distracted and actually forgot about a discussion I was having earlier.

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Leonard03: And they didn't ring them so hard, they were the scummiest of the players out there. There is a huge difference. And why were they useless votes, anything not on the current wagon is useless? No way!
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dedoporno: Because they are votes just for the sake of making a statement. That late before deadline with a wagon rolling like the CSX8888 they had no real weight other than you showing you won't join p1na's and that you suspect more the one you're lynching. You could have voted anyone with a similar result, even refrained from voting whatsoever. Same result.

But, OK, you say it wasn't a meaningless vote. OK. As far as flub's concerned nothing happened last night. Why aren't you voting for him right now?
Yes you are right, voting any person would have the same result. I don't see why that matters? I would argue that not voting anyone would have a different result though. I want to state who I think is scummy. I wanted to end the day with a vote on my top suspect. As to why I'm not voting him now, I don't consider him scummy enough. Because, IMO, you should pretty much always end the day with a vote. I don't believe in no-lynches. So when the deadline approaches, I may vote him again. But until then I'm keeping my options open.

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Leonard03: Drat! I was going to ask about this but Bookwyrm beat me to it. I had even started the post but then break ended :(

I wanted to ask something else but I can't remember what it was, and I need to go now.
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Ixamyakxim: Moreover, he does it in a way without actually offering it up "on his own" - I find it very scummy when someone offers very little of their own, yet still gets in a "chip" without having to make the attack on their own.

He effectively said nothing new, but mentioned that he was "totally going to say what Bookwyrm already said" and then even alludes to having something new to offer... but doesn't.

This combined with the general tone of his posts and his vote at the end of Day One are what have me lumping him in with Bookwyrm as potential scum.
You were the one to call it role fishing. I was asking why you wanted that discussion.

Off to work.
Posted November 19, 2015
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drealmer7: Not what I said, but, care to share why you think adalia isn't scummy? Or you just want to keep trying to get of the focus off of him and put it on me?
I haven't made up my mind whether I think Adalia is actually scummy or not; from what I've seen, he's acted pretty much in character. Maybe I need to do a re-read on his Day 1, but I have the impression that it isn't going to matter whether I do or not.

As for focusing attention on you: go back and reread the post that I "fixed". Paragraphs will be labeled according to line breaks, and named with PX where X is the paragraph number.
P1: A joke
P2: Incoming RP warning
P3: RP
P4: RP
P5: Why isn't Adalia everyone's target?
P6: Why don't people think Adalia is scum?
P7: Krypsyn, vote for Adalia!
P8: HSL, vote for Adalia!
P9: Bler, vote for Adalia!
P10: Ix, how can you NOT think Adalia is scummy?
P11: Topic change warning
P12: Why wasn't Hijack killed while vulnerable?
P13: I want to lynch Adalia, Leonard, or Hijack
P14: I think Pina needs to be lynched whenever he plays like that.

I just shortened your post a bit, while still covering the dominant point. To be fair, I did insert the bit about 11 hours, because your sudden rush to kill someone when the Day just started stood out to me.

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drealmer7: Whether there is 1 team or if there are 2 teams, how likely do you find it to be that HijacK is on one of those because of his living through his "vulnerable" state? I find it odd that no one else finds it odd that he's still alive. My thoughts going in to the night were "Well hijack will probably bite it because how can scum pass on that opportunity? If he doesn't die, that is fishy."
By itself, the fact that Hijack survived while vulnerable doesn't indicate anything to me. Reread the part I bolded: that sort of thinking is the EXACT kind of reason why scum might leave him alive if he isn't scum.

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yogsloth: KILL KILL KILL KILL CAN WE PLEASE JUST FIONJG JUST KILL PLASE JUST FOR THE LOVE OF FING
And on your left, you can see a wild yogsloth going about its business in its natural habitat.

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HypersomniacLive: No, and no. I still had access, <snipped for length> so it's quite unlikely that the Coroner role works the way it did in the milk game (which again, as far as I know, is not the norm).
Fair enough.

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cristigale: Question for anyone - do you find drealmer's push for adalia's lynch noteworthy?
Yes, as I've noted above.

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dedoporno: Anyway, as I said a few times the hasty hammer feels really weird to me as well. The D1 wasn't as bad as last game, nor as long. Unlike last game I'm pretty sure we had the lynch in the bag with a bunch of people ready to place the final vote. Waiting some more hours wouldn't have hurt. Maybe it was just that important for adalia to get the very last seat. Otherwise he would have been the one to answer the questions "Why weren't you on the wagon? Why didn't you hammer?"
Most people seem to be in agreement that Pina was done by that point, and it just needed to be formalized. Am I understanding you correctly in that one of the reasons Adalia is currently being questioned is for hammering, but if he didn't hammer then he'd have been questioned on why he didn't?
Posted November 19, 2015
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bler144: E.g. HSL is one of the people that I haven't done much re-read of (and probably won't bother if adalia flips scum, tbh), but he seems to be pushing this one a bit uncharacteristically hard, despite his usual non-voting.
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dedoporno: Really? I actually see him in a very consistent light to what I've come to expect from him as opposed to how I felt about him last game (if you didn't follow then I pegged him just based on feelings about his posts and hard). He may have upped his game this time around and if that is the case - good for him. So far he looks like his usual self to me. Is that the only thing you would choose him for over the others (or anyone else at that matter)? To be honest I don't really like your list. Is HSL really looking worse than Leonard or maybe even Ix/Wyrm/trent?
Huh. I thought, if anything, I was overly clear in who my top 3 was. Apparently not. Among other things, at this point I've re-read everyone who's in my top 3 plus 4-5 others. HSL is not one of those I've re-read, ergo he's not in my top 3.

So yes, the _only_ thing I'm really on him for is how hard he seems to be pushing adalia. But that's not nearly enough to make him a focus, much less someone I'd vote. Otherwise no real flags for me. Is that more clear?

I used him as an example as something we might "learn" from the wagon, while keeping out of play the things I'm actually watching for a bit more intently.

@dedo - I'm curious who you think my top 3 is.

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flubbucket: So logically we couldn't have a one shot role blocker or HijacK couldn't be lying.

Why is multiple scum teams possible?? We had one death last night.

Possible but not Plausible.
I think you're misreading a bit. I'm not one of those pushing the "multiple teams" theory as plausible. Even the section you quote says "at least possibly in play" which does not say "plausible." I also note the alternative explanation is that there aren't multiple teams at all but adalia set it up as a theory to distract.

If he's scum, and there's one jailer/RB (I'm leaning to the former), then he bluffs having received the action, knowing the actual action went to Hijack, to provide "evidence" that there are two jailers, thus maybe two teams, if he gets in trouble and needs a distraction.

As for Hijack, at this point, no, I don't think the data supports him lying. Or if he is, adalia is also lying, in which case I should still be on adalia anyway. 1-shot RB is possible, but there are a variety of potential problems with that theory.
Posted November 19, 2015
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Bookwyrm627: Most people seem to be in agreement that Pina was done by that point, and it just needed to be formalized. Am I understanding you correctly in that one of the reasons Adalia is currently being questioned is for hammering, but if he didn't hammer then he'd have been questioned on why he didn't?
The way I see it is adaliabooks wanted to make sure he was on the wagon to lynch P1na because he knew he would flip scum. If adalibooks really thought P1na was town he would not have hammered so fast because there were others who already said they would. If adaliabooks is town I think he would have just given his opinion that we were lynching P1na for play style and then offer to hammer if there was no other option. But he knew if someone else hammered after he said that he would look guilty, so he makes a big pretense of LAMIST and in his words does the dirty deed.
Posted November 19, 2015
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Bookwyrm627: Most people seem to be in agreement that Pina was done by that point, and it just needed to be formalized. Am I understanding you correctly in that one of the reasons Adalia is currently being questioned is for hammering, but if he didn't hammer then he'd have been questioned on why he didn't?
Not entirely correct. I don't have issue with him hammering. I have issue with the accompanying feelings he shared about it and the hurry he was in to place that hammer. What confuses me was the flip.

On the other hand if he had stayed away from the wagon and let JMich or HSL place their own hammer as promised he might have been the one getting asked "Why weren't you on that scum wagon?".



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bler144: Huh. I thought, if anything, I was overly clear in who my top 3 was. Apparently not. Among other things, at this point I've re-read everyone who's in my top 3 plus 4-5 others. HSL is not one of those I've re-read, ergo he's not in my top 3.
Then I misunderstood you. Sorry about that. The numbering convention got me confused. You said you have 3 people leading, then started a numbered list which I thought was covering these options. Then it jumped into another alphanumeric list followed by a third letter bulleted list. It seems that was a bit too much to handle early in the morning :)
Posted November 19, 2015
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HypersomniacLive: And I'm not sure I get this other part:

If it's a set up with one of my buddies to make me seem more town (or prove I couldn't have done the night kill) then why haven't they claimed it?
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HypersomniacLive: Are you referring to your scum-buddies? I think that's something you'd have to ask them, if your plan was for one of them to come forward and they haven't.
But that's what I mean. If your supposing it's a ploy by me and my supposed buddies then why has no one come forward? Without a blocker confirming they blocked me it's not much of a ploy...

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HypersomniacLive: And let me ask you something else - why are you being so ambiguous about what actually happened with you N1? This "might or might not", and "maybe, maybe not" sounds like you do know something more about what went on N1. So, if it's in town's benefit, why don't you come clean?
Well considering how badly people took it when P1na claimed early I don't really want to be tarred with the same brush. I'll claim any action I might have had when it's the right time to.

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HypersomniacLive: But OK, let's say that we're blinded - please lay out for me the larger intricacies of the game going on around us.

And one question to all - would someone that has no role, or had no plan to go do something (to someone else) during the Night, try this hard (all night) to break out of their room, if locked in it?

It's very late here, and my brain's already quite mash. I've, more or less, read to end, but need to do a re-read with a clear head before posting or commenting on anything else.
Too late. You can figure it out for yourselves now.

Others have already answered, but that really is clutching at straws now. And what are you actually suggesting? If I was genuinely blocked then I couldn't have killed JMich (which is the only action I could have taken last night that would pretty much guarantee I was scum)

I hope you're at least going to put your money where your mouth is and vote me soon, as this is starting to get tiresome.

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flubbucket: He might have been lying about what specifically??

What makes you say you don't think that's the case??
That he was lying about his playstyle and that being how he always played. And I don't think it was the case as others did confirm he is/was like that, and from what I've seen of him about the forums I can imagine that was probably the case.

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cristigale: @adalia – I didn’t follow this. How would this make yogs look bad? No one is going to complain if we get a flip. Yogs has not claimed Coroner. How would players know there is a Coroner? Or a need for one?
I would argue somewhat that he hasn't claimed Coroner.
As much as he might like to be coy about it, there really is no other possible role yogs could have been hinting at, unless he was really a PGO and hoping to kill scum and not hit any town power roles (but that's a far too risky and anti town play even for yogs)

Ok, if JMich had flipped then it wouldn't be quite so clear (and therefore the chances of it looking bad for him aren't as high), but I at least had expected after yogs soft claim yesterday that he would elaborate and full claim today (and if he had claimed Coroner with no apparent need for one to exist then it would look bad).
But clearly yogs is annoyed that his hint was so obvious that he doesn't want to confirm what we all now know to be the case.

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trentonlf: If adalibooks really thought P1na was town he would not have hammered so fast because there were others who already said they would.
You have met me haven't you?
I think it's true to say that in my entire career as town I have only ever not been on one lynch wagon (Vitek's in CSPVG game, because I wasn't actually around when the wagon went down) that occurred while I was alive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, unless I have 100% solid proof someone is town (or I suppose if lynches didn't give flips) I will vote and lynch someone.
Posted November 19, 2015
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bler144: @dedo - I'm curious who you think my top 3 is.
After we cleared things up I'd say these should be adalia, Leonard and Ix/Wyrm. I'm not entirely sure about the ordering in the last 3, but I believe the remaining 2 are in that pool.
Posted November 19, 2015
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Ixamyakxim: Moreover, he does it in a way without actually offering it up "on his own" - I find it very scummy when someone offers very little of their own, yet still gets in a "chip" without having to make the attack on their own.
I agree that his post doesn't add much, and that, at best, it's a bit confusing.

Though "chip" or "attack" (and IIRC you used the word "accuse" prior?) seems a strong phrasing given that he said "I was going to ask about this..." and never really builds any heat from there.

Look at it from my perspective - as you note, he offers very little of his own. His words are also generally pretty bland beyond noting he had the same question as Wyrm. I can have the same question as Flub and still not agree with Flub's read of XYZ. I can ask you about something that's purely exploratory.

So on the whole I tend to agree with his interpretation in 773. The problem, if anything, is that he's coming in too soft for it to mean anything at all, where you seem to be suggesting he's come at you hard. Imo, both sides of that equation are a problem.

I can come up with alternative explanations besides scummy for why Leonard would be lurking in plain sight. It's harder for me to come up with an explanation for why you seem to be reframing some things pretty significantly. OMGUS is possible, but OMGUS applies whether one is town or scum. So my alternative explanation for you doesn't really help you all that much.
Posted November 19, 2015
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bler144: Just like the wiki for Abraham Lincoln talks about his role as U.S. president, and hist assassination, but fails to mention his most important accomplishment: Illinois state backgammon champ, 1936. Which is truly how most of us think of him here in the states.
That is odd. Getting resurrected is kind of a big deal. Even if it is just to win in a backgammon tournament.

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cristigale: Question for anyone - do you find drealmer's push for adalia's lynch noteworthy?
I many on adaliabooks' wagon noteworthy. While I agree he looks scummy, the fervor and single-mindedness many are going after him give me pause. It is in character for some, but not all.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #32: Booze, Blood and Bullets: The Prohibition(1735 posts)(1735 posts)
(1735 posts)