Heh.

Yeah, you'll have to help me out here. I didn't go all the way, just from around p1na's final moments up until know. The Town part is there, yes, that's a given, but I fail to notice the Vanilla one. Either I'm massively overlooking something or it's not as clear as you think.

A shame, because she'd really enjoy it.

I haven't caught that either. Think I'm too sucked in to the wyrm/ix fight to pay enough attention to rest of whatever seems to be going on. It's nice we're talking and moving fervently, but...reading/comprehending taking a blow right now, at least speaking for myself.

Heh, no. Was at the chiropractor for a bit. Had an MT working on my neck/shoulders while the chiro ran a medical-grade G5 massager over my lumbar/thorax, but both were male, and I try not to sexually harass my medical care providers in any case.

The bright side, aside from the headache receding somewhat, is that I had some time to relax and clear my head a bit. A little leery of not fully comprehending all the activity going on in the last 12-18 hours, but some clarity on my own thinking is something, anyway.

Should have more time to read more carefully tonight, and I think I'm actually ready to make a case for why adalia out of all the ...curiosities on the table. TLDR: I think we learn the most from it regardless of how he flips.

Leonard/Wyrm/Ix/Dedo/Hijack/etc. tell us something if they flip scum, but I'm not sure we get anything from those if they flip town (neutral who knows). And I say that even with my theory that either Ix or Wyrm is probably scum. Ix flipping town wouldn't automatically make wyrm scum, and v-v, and then where are we tomorrow?

Of the possibilities, I like the odds of adalia flipping scum best. But I think there are a number of add'l data points gained if he flips town that have implication for alternative suspects and even game setup.

Ahhh, I did some re-reading too and I might have just gone down the wrong path somewhere. Adalia's Day 2 opening bit:

Had me thinking that was at least an actionless soft claim, but no, I can’t find much else either. I guess it was all vibe.

Yep. Took me all night.

Not what I said, but, care to share why you think adalia isn't scummy? Or you just want to keep trying to get of the focus off of him and put it on me?
OOooo, these are the kind of thoughts I like to get in to to help figure out the game! I've been contemplating the JMich non-flip. 2 scum teams @ 3v3v10, eh? I might buy that, that makes the odds of hitting scum on D1 lynch more believeable too. So maybe there was only 1 NK because of whatever the mechanics are? Interesting.
Whether there is 1 team or if there are 2 teams, how likely do you find it to be that HijacK is on one of those because of his living through his "vulnerable" state? I find it odd that no one else finds it odd that he's still alive. My thoughts going in to the night were "Well hijack will probably bite it because how can scum pass on that opportunity? If he doesn't die, that is fishy."

Does this kind of statement have a name? is this LAMIST? It seems even more extreme than a LAMIST remark. A threat/dare rolled in to one? It's not blind want. I want to because I think you're scum. Not just "because I want."

Still lots of catching up to do...

KILL KILL KILL KILL CAN WE PLEASE JUST FIONJG JUST KILL PLASE JUST FOR THE LOVE OF FING

,.lkljklllklklj

upgl,pymui'pp,l

muig,mlumuip,;lmmimi

oh shit ithink I broke the keyb

You forgot RAAAAWWRRRR.

Not getting your way got you down?

In reverse order,

3)Hijack noted several of the implications. At least from a certain perspective he was the or at least an "obvious target." The rest of us likely glossed over it because it's WIFOM clusterfuck city.

Maybe scum know more about the mechanics of what "more killable" means than we do, maybe they don't. They killed someone, in any case. But in any game "the obvious" target(s) are often the obvious target to EVERYONE, not just scum. The obvious target is most likely to draw protection, or a watcher, etc. Or maybe Hijack IS scum, or maybe etc. etc. It is worth noting, but not nearly enough info to bother speculating unless there are other good indications Hijack looks scummy.

And...personally I don't see much, or at least nothing that can't fit his meta.

2) The "missing NK" is a bit of an important point to just gloss over.

Yes, it's possible there are two scum factions, though unless I'm missing something the strongest argument for that seems to be two jailers. But it's entirely possible both are scum (whether 1 faction or 2), both are town, or 1scum/1town. Neutral I guess possible though I have no idea why that would be.

Perhaps there were two attempted NKs and a) adalia/Hijack was said killer and ate a block, b) whoever the target was was protected (adalia/hijack/other?), c) both killers targeted JMich because something, or d) yes, hypothetically there's some mechanic we just don't understand - odd/even night swaps because between them they only own one gun and have to share, etc.

And...yeah.

1) The second part of your question I am actually curious about.

As to the first part, do you really not see where his comment/joke is coming from? I thought it pretty clear.

While I agree that mafia took a hard blow with P1na's lynch, I have to think about the plan you're suggesting, that's not what I had in mind when I made my post #602.

I don't think that JMich was chosen because he was "the guy that won't mean anything to anybody".
JMich may not post much, especially during D1, but he's paying close attention and is very good at analysing data, and picking up discrepancies. As I said when D2 started, I believe that mafia are afraid of his abilities, and killed him before he could become a real threat to them. And came up with a plan to tie everything together.



While I don't disagree in general, my comment had nth to do with all this. Looks like I should have put the /S disclaimer.



No, and no. I still had access, and peeked in a few times, and from what I recall, he was über happy to come up with the Coroner claim as he initially thought he wouldn't have to report on anything. I seriously doubt that, at the time, he had in mind that a Coroner gets his results immediately (just go and reread the threat, there's no mention of it, and no worrying of how to overcome this).
I think he prepared this during N1 to pressure the Coroner (yes, I think we have one, since we got a no-flip NK), perhaps hoping that we won't dispute, or at least doubt, it even though P1na flipped just fine so it's quite unlikely that the Coroner role works the way it did in the milk game (which again, as far as I know, is not the norm).



I think that adaliabooks remembers very well the mistakes he made with boith CSPVG and Krypsyn in RW's game, and had to avoid repeating them, hence the different approach this time. The hammer makes him look good given the flip, plus appears in line with his stance on "kill, kill, kill", and insisting on "we lynched someone for their playstyle, and are driving people away" shifts the focus of the arguments away from the fact that P1na's posts can't be taken at face value.


Sorry people. Got interrupted a few times, and I'm still quite behind. More to come.

Thanks.

No more questions. I yield the remainder of my time back to the chair.

(I'm watching Congressional testimony at work. Some of it's dull but stretches are quite interesting if not amusing.)

*sigh*

Ah, nice, attacking me to shift the attention.

If you go read (yes, read, as I'm not sure if you have read it) my last post to P1na, I made a couple of arguments and asked him a question. With it being Sunday afternoon and with the deadline more than 24hrs away, I waited to see if he had to say anything, and if he'd claim. Unlike you, I was in no hurry to start the Night as I had no plotting to do.

In that same post I said I'd hammer him when I'd get back on, but you just couldn't wait, could you? Now that I think about it, I have to wonder - did you, additionally, do it so you could now point fingers at me and JMich?

And since you think it needs to be said - as town, I don't have scum-buddies.


That would require me to think it more likely that you're town. Which I don't. Hence why I question you this much.


Of all the 9 votes (8 without yours) on P1na, two people's arguments bothered you, and that is evidence that we are lynching people for their playstyle and driving them away? Your insistence on this, if honest, paints everyone as untruthful about the reasons they cast a vote, just to support your claim that P1na's lynch was decided for non-game related reasons, and that it was pure luck that he flipped mafia.
Anyway, I think this has been discussed more than enough already.


No, it's not. But I want to ask you a couple of things before I get to it.


Hmmm... would you now if you thought you couldn't get him lynched?


You mean you'd have NK-ed him?

Let me ask you something.

By the end of D1, your posts (#189, #375, #430, and #502) sounded like you thought him more likely to be town than not. Do you still think so, and why?


What would town gain by coming forward since in spite of your block (or so you, and HijacK, claim) we had a NK? If there was a town block/jail, claiming it would only serve to offer the next NK-target, as it says nth about your alignment, only that you weren't the one to kill JMich. Because you know, you could just as easily not have been blocked/jailed, and just not have performed the NK.

And I'm not sure I get this other part: Are you referring to your scum-buddies? I think that's something you'd have to ask them, if your plan was for one of them to come forward and they haven't.

And let me ask you something else - why are you being so ambiguous about what actually happened with you N1? This "might or might not", and "maybe, maybe not" sounds like you do know something more about what went on N1. So, if it's in town's benefit, why don't you come clean?

But OK, let's say that we're blinded - please lay out for me the larger intricacies of the game going on around us.


And one question to all - would someone that has no role, or had no plan to go do something (to someone else) during the Night, try this hard (all night) to break out of their room, if locked in it?


It's very late here, and my brain's already quite mash. I've, more or less, read to end, but need to do a re-read with a clear head before posting or commenting on anything else.

To be fair: yes. That's just flavor.