Posted November 18, 2015
Leonard03
Prepare For Descent
Registered: Mar 2014
From Canada
Bookwyrm627
ADD Jumping Bean
Registered: Nov 2013
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
Rofl bump. Will try to address more when I'm off the mobile device.
flubbucket
"Intoning"
Registered: Dec 2012
From Micronesia
Posted November 18, 2015
to coordinate and implicate me by implying my soft-claim was intended to disguise that I'm a Janitor.
.....<snip>...........
And I can pretty much guarantee I'll be killed tonight out of spite.
.....<snip>...........
I have noticed you routinely state how you will probably be killed tonight. And yet it doesn't happen.
I don't like your play. It's not town. I'm getting tired of it.
Vote: yogsloth
Leonard03
Prepare For Descent
Registered: Mar 2014
From Canada
yogsloth
GRAAAAAAH!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
D1 Ix/Wyrm are both worth a re-read, if anyone is bored.
Wyrm D1 take:
Aside from a little bit of analysis Wyrm really didn't commit to any position on much of anything I could see. He votes Ix for potential role fishing and for the crazy "yogs is vanilla" thing. Both are points on which I do agree with him.
Most curious in context of P1na's flip is that Wyrm pushes the RVS on P1na, and then only mentions him once after post 120 (RVS unvote), which comes in 418, which you should read (below). Is he making a neutral observation, or giving a teammate tips on how to potentially escape the rope?
Anyway, it's a "read it yourself and draw your own conclusion" post. He was not on the wagon, nor helping clarify as some others not on the wagon did, and other than a note about being less-present, I'm not clear why.
Curious to hear his take on the last 24-36 hours of D1 and his non-role in them.
Ix D1 take:
Ix is kind of the opposite problem. He was on the wagon, but probably the weakest explanation for why. Had already been through votes on P1na (2nd RVS on P1na after wyrm), 21st amendment, and "actual" votes on yogs, drealmer. Vote on yogs was problematic. Vote on drealmer was problematic though he backed off when pushed. No meaningful posts after his vote on P1na (488), just his plea for Hijack to post erotica to the thread. Afraid of saying the wrong thing with the die cast? To the extent he did explain his vote at all it was in 459, where he stated a preference for actually lynching P1na/yogs over drealmer but is "voting for pressure."
Which always works best when you say it out loud. To be fair to him, in one of my posts D1 (470) I asked him a question about post 438 - he didn't answer but on re-read I noticed that I'd just misunderstood his format/segue and my question made no sense anyway. Consider that question retracted.
It's also consistent with his play from last game, though...last game he should have been the D1 lynch for various reasons including asking scum to kill the tracker. So, yeah. Neither of them leave a lot to work with, imo.
Leonard take
When wondering wth Leonard was doing, I tried to compare to other games we've played together. He was absent most of D1 in #28, and not really helpful on return. Ended up a policy lynch on D2(?) after doing not much. He was neutral survivor in #29. Nothing he did in either of those games looked like scum-hunting either. So no help as a comparison.
So what did he do in this game? Interestingly he calls out P1na for lurking (411) right before P1na indeed shows up (415) and starts posting the sequence that led to his ouster. Krypsyn's vote as first on the wagon is #416. Could be read as exculpatory or incriminating. Very helpful like that.
His vote on Kryp made no sense, either for the explanation or the timing. Though Leonard is correct that in that same post (462) he did say he would re-read the flub/yogs fight, and that he would hammer P1na to avoid no lynch. For consistency, he did say he would vote yogs to avoid no lynch, and had called out Hijack for lurking (224/226).
His final post-lynch statement on P1na, like his calling P1na out for lurking, can likewise be read 2 ways. Was he really not expecting that flip? Or was he expecting that flip and trying to look surprised? I have an opinion (ok, more of a guess), but you know, I also know the saying about opinions.
Wyrm D1 take:
Aside from a little bit of analysis Wyrm really didn't commit to any position on much of anything I could see. He votes Ix for potential role fishing and for the crazy "yogs is vanilla" thing. Both are points on which I do agree with him.
Most curious in context of P1na's flip is that Wyrm pushes the RVS on P1na, and then only mentions him once after post 120 (RVS unvote), which comes in 418, which you should read (below). Is he making a neutral observation, or giving a teammate tips on how to potentially escape the rope?
Anyway, it's a "read it yourself and draw your own conclusion" post. He was not on the wagon, nor helping clarify as some others not on the wagon did, and other than a note about being less-present, I'm not clear why.
Curious to hear his take on the last 24-36 hours of D1 and his non-role in them.
Ix D1 take:
Ix is kind of the opposite problem. He was on the wagon, but probably the weakest explanation for why. Had already been through votes on P1na (2nd RVS on P1na after wyrm), 21st amendment, and "actual" votes on yogs, drealmer. Vote on yogs was problematic. Vote on drealmer was problematic though he backed off when pushed. No meaningful posts after his vote on P1na (488), just his plea for Hijack to post erotica to the thread. Afraid of saying the wrong thing with the die cast? To the extent he did explain his vote at all it was in 459, where he stated a preference for actually lynching P1na/yogs over drealmer but is "voting for pressure."
Which always works best when you say it out loud. To be fair to him, in one of my posts D1 (470) I asked him a question about post 438 - he didn't answer but on re-read I noticed that I'd just misunderstood his format/segue and my question made no sense anyway. Consider that question retracted.
It's also consistent with his play from last game, though...last game he should have been the D1 lynch for various reasons including asking scum to kill the tracker. So, yeah. Neither of them leave a lot to work with, imo.
Leonard take
When wondering wth Leonard was doing, I tried to compare to other games we've played together. He was absent most of D1 in #28, and not really helpful on return. Ended up a policy lynch on D2(?) after doing not much. He was neutral survivor in #29. Nothing he did in either of those games looked like scum-hunting either. So no help as a comparison.
So what did he do in this game? Interestingly he calls out P1na for lurking (411) right before P1na indeed shows up (415) and starts posting the sequence that led to his ouster. Krypsyn's vote as first on the wagon is #416. Could be read as exculpatory or incriminating. Very helpful like that.
His vote on Kryp made no sense, either for the explanation or the timing. Though Leonard is correct that in that same post (462) he did say he would re-read the flub/yogs fight, and that he would hammer P1na to avoid no lynch. For consistency, he did say he would vote yogs to avoid no lynch, and had called out Hijack for lurking (224/226).
His final post-lynch statement on P1na, like his calling P1na out for lurking, can likewise be read 2 ways. Was he really not expecting that flip? Or was he expecting that flip and trying to look surprised? I have an opinion (ok, more of a guess), but you know, I also know the saying about opinions.
drealmer7
finding balance
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
Present and accounted for! Now I have to read. Geez, I'm sure glad I don't have to read any posts made by myself! *phew*
How. Very. Interesting....*reads more**posts so you all know to expect an info dump in the next 2-3-4 hours from me barring any flesh-life distractions.*
How. Very. Interesting....*reads more**posts so you all know to expect an info dump in the next 2-3-4 hours from me barring any flesh-life distractions.*
HijacK
Champion
Registered: Apr 2012
From Romania
Posted November 18, 2015
Ugh, I was roleblocked during the night. I'm getting a sense of deja vu.
drealmer7
finding balance
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
Wait wait wait wait wait. I had decided I was going to vote come the start of the day last night, before even reading posts because I was so sure of my thoughts+vote after the P1na flip. And then I got distracted reading posts because of the "JMich is dead" non-flip.
I also have a song:
Ding dong JMich is dead.
Okay, back to business...
Adalia is my #1 choice, before having read anything today, by far, sooo, yep!
Vote Adaliabooks
ok, now back to reading...oh wait, I just had the thought that that might be a bad idea, to vote without knowing the vote count (accidental hammer or whatever) but ummm, nope, that's okay for me with that vote if that is what happens.
ok, NOW back to reading...
I also have a song:
Ding dong JMich is dead.
Okay, back to business...
Adalia is my #1 choice, before having read anything today, by far, sooo, yep!
Vote Adaliabooks
ok, now back to reading...oh wait, I just had the thought that that might be a bad idea, to vote without knowing the vote count (accidental hammer or whatever) but ummm, nope, that's okay for me with that vote if that is what happens.
ok, NOW back to reading...
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
I wonder what purpose it may serve.
I do think it's possible people want to say nice things for reasons having nothing to do with the game itself. I phrased my vote for him delicately for that reason. No need to make him feel unwelcome or belittled if he actually did want another chance at some point.
Pondering it, the alternative is troubling, though it points both directions. Could yogs still be scum (unlikely but possible) and NK someone who wouldn't give him any leeway? Sure. Could scum have chosen JMich for precisely that reason? Sure. Or could we be looking for reasons where none exist, as yogs suggests?
Does this focus make you the visionary who's seen through yogs all along (I swear I did that once)? Or scum pulling out every stop thinking the game is lost because they got a step behind and who banked everything on nailing yogs?
I hate to say it, but I think if you do actually <know> something incriminating, I kinda feel like you have to say it. And if yogs is scum, then he probably knows more than town about whatever it is you might know. So you may as well tell us before you go. If you don't know something, and feel great about the odds that yogs is scum, well, there are still probably 2-ish others out there you could be looking for. Or maybe that's just me.
But in any case, in terms of a direct answer, I think it depends a) on what scenario specifically you're proposing, and whether b) JMich's vote is make/break in terms of achieving a lynch.
At least taken as a direct statement, there's no claim in the part you quoted. Try re-reading it.
Bookwyrm627
ADD Jumping Bean
Registered: Nov 2013
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
That strikes me as....a little hard to swallow. I mean, I know he bluffed certain things (like the "bonus details") but I don't get why he is now proposing yogs should have a flip waiting in his inbox. And moreover pushing yogs to claim on that basis. So I went from not->susp->not->susp.
You can try to spin that as much as you want, but I was there from the beginning, and nth of this ever came up.
1) Which part of that analysis was faux?
2) Why is it dubious to go over a player's claim?
3) Why is the only important conclusion the possibility that Yog might be coroner?
4) Where/when did I continue to imply no flips and search for the coroner?
Was going to point everyone to P1na's posts #469 & 516 but it seems Leonard03 has done so.
I also find myself in agreement with Leonard on this (more or less). I saw Pina's "tentative win" post as a joke, and his "my role is as vanilla as they come" to mean his role didn't have any wonky aspects to it.
For that matter, are you so sure that Bler, Trent, and Ix are town?
Aside from a little bit of analysis Wyrm really didn't commit to any position on much of anything I could see. He votes Ix for potential role fishing and for the crazy "yogs is vanilla" thing. Both are points on which I do agree with him.
Most curious in context of P1na's flip is that Wyrm pushes the RVS on P1na, and then only mentions him once after post 120 (RVS unvote), which comes in 418, which you should read (below). Is he making a neutral observation, or giving a teammate tips on how to potentially escape the rope?
Anyway, it's a "read it yourself and draw your own conclusion" post. He was not on the wagon, nor helping clarify as some others not on the wagon did, and other than a note about being less-present, I'm not clear why.
Curious to hear his take on the last 24-36 hours of D1 and his non-role in them.
Friday, Pina lit a grenade in post 415, then failed to do anything but hold it. As soon as I saw that post, I was pretty certain Pina was going to die. Having phrases like "bouncy house of bones" and "I'm totally, definitely not scum" going through my head, I was sort of rooting for him to find a way out. In the meantime, I decided to wait and see other player's reactions to it. But wouldn't you know it, half the players are missing until after I've left for the weekend (see post 442). You guys are pretty neat, but I don't see the couple we visited as much as I'd like, so I was going to enjoy the one day we were visiting. I occasionally glanced in the thread and I addressed the one thing that was aimed directly toward me since it was short; I didn't particularly want to get prodded.
Maybe I could have pushed myself more Sunday afternoon (EST) to catch up, but I was stalling some (I knew Drealmer had been posting). Then Adalia hammers, and Agent closes the Day before Sunday evening (EST).
As far as the rest of Day 1 that I missed: I've had one "Oh, so that's why people are giving Leonard the stink eye" moment. I'm still not done on that front yet; I've gotten into where Drealmer has to post in rhyme. Only another page left, I think, but it is bedtime after I finish posting this.
And now I see that Drealmer has arrived. Need to stop refreshing before Drealmer can get into it so I can get to bed...
yogsloth
GRAAAAAAH!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
I think the difference between yogs/adalia, though is that yogs was vote #3 (451), and had pushed towards P1na in 3 different posts prior to that, 507 aside.
adalia was against or ambivalent about the wagon, and then hammered when it was inevitable.
Taken alone, is it possible yogs saw the writing on the wall and bussed a teammate D1 to shield himself? Absolutely. But then one also has to assume all the other things that made even the "semi-plausible" scenario I originally proposed as well. That's where it starts to lose me. Y'know, thinking about it calmly and with more to go on than when I started his wagon D1.
Though I think we're glossing over the thing that makes yogs look scummiest: 40-y.o. white guy rap.
____
On more serious matters than yog rapping, it looks like both Hijack (639) and adalia (565) are claiming to have been jailed and/or roleblocked? adalia noted flavor of being locked in a room. Hijack - was your flavor PM same or different?
Or is "roleblocked" not game related and just an admission you "partied too much" IRL?
Anyone else?
drealmer7
finding balance
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted November 18, 2015
A sheep sleeping with the fishes? Kinky. Obviously he had them over to his room, he didn't go to their place.
So, let me set some more narrative. You don't have to read it. But I bet you like it if you do!!!!!!!!
Dude (or was he a she? or a DROID?! we don't know!) gets shot in his room with a TOMMY GUN in a MANSION, we all come running to the sound to see the sight, and yet, NO ONE SAW A FECKING THING?! More like people are too afraid to talk. Not that I blame them, I tossed and turned all night in fear.
Now that Quad is dead, is there no order to be had? No authorities that can DO something to help us figure out what is going on here and lead us to a resolution???
IMO the discussion needs to be focussed on: who looks like P1na's scumbuddies the most? Why are more people not as quick as I am to the adalia wagon? Because, I was on it as soon as the P1na flip happened and was set to vote it the next day ASAP. I think adalia was just STUCK all around and didn't know how to best play it and, well, is just kicking himself now and I think should feel lucky to not be lynched already.)
I want to know why people don't think adalia is scummy? with how the P1na flip turned out and adalia in regards to that. His reasons+defenses do not hold up, at all, imo.
>Kryps, I know, you've had it hard for Leonard03 since the game started. I understand, he is sexy, BUT (big but, right over here, to get your attention): doesn't adalia look attractive too? Doesn't he "do it" for ya? If no, why no?
>HSL seriously, why not vote adalia already?
>bler, don't be fooled by the back and forth the thoughts present about adalia, just, vote adaliabooks!
>Ix, "I... feel pretty good about him to be honest. " How can you? I would initially think you are a desperate scum-buddy not wanting to be 2/4 left in the group at the end of D2 if adalia gets lynched (if he is scum), but, then I think: why draw attention to yourself like that, that seems like a bad idea, so you must actually think adalia is fine? How?
On HijacK:
I think this needs talked about more. To me it seemed he was not worried at all about his frequency of posts, paying much attention to the game at all, and then when he got prodded he didn't seem to care. To me that reeks of confidence in the "ehh, that isn't going to affect me so badly" sort of way and is hugely scummy to me that he didn't get killed last night with the "better chance" thing.
Aside from adalia, I could vote leonard03, or HijacK
also, adalia, to me it's not that P1na shouldn't play because of a "distracting playstyle", it's a playstyle that is just not helpful, ever, and even moreso, hindering to the game and the people trying to play it. It's like playing chess with someone who just plays because they have fun moving the pieces around the board in their funny patterns. Sure, they know the object of the game is to capture the king, but, they have no interest in learning strategy or any care if they achieve the goal or not. I have no interest in playing with people like that. It's absolutely nothing personal, I don't know P1na at all, but if they are in a future mafia game playing the same way, I will vote them by policy (but not before.)
So, let me set some more narrative. You don't have to read it. But I bet you like it if you do!!!!!!!!
Dude (or was he a she? or a DROID?! we don't know!) gets shot in his room with a TOMMY GUN in a MANSION, we all come running to the sound to see the sight, and yet, NO ONE SAW A FECKING THING?! More like people are too afraid to talk. Not that I blame them, I tossed and turned all night in fear.
Now that Quad is dead, is there no order to be had? No authorities that can DO something to help us figure out what is going on here and lead us to a resolution???
IMO the discussion needs to be focussed on: who looks like P1na's scumbuddies the most? Why are more people not as quick as I am to the adalia wagon? Because, I was on it as soon as the P1na flip happened and was set to vote it the next day ASAP. I think adalia was just STUCK all around and didn't know how to best play it and, well, is just kicking himself now and I think should feel lucky to not be lynched already.)
I want to know why people don't think adalia is scummy? with how the P1na flip turned out and adalia in regards to that. His reasons+defenses do not hold up, at all, imo.
>Kryps, I know, you've had it hard for Leonard03 since the game started. I understand, he is sexy, BUT (big but, right over here, to get your attention): doesn't adalia look attractive too? Doesn't he "do it" for ya? If no, why no?
>HSL seriously, why not vote adalia already?
>bler, don't be fooled by the back and forth the thoughts present about adalia, just, vote adaliabooks!
>Ix, "I... feel pretty good about him to be honest. " How can you? I would initially think you are a desperate scum-buddy not wanting to be 2/4 left in the group at the end of D2 if adalia gets lynched (if he is scum), but, then I think: why draw attention to yourself like that, that seems like a bad idea, so you must actually think adalia is fine? How?
On HijacK:
I think this needs talked about more. To me it seemed he was not worried at all about his frequency of posts, paying much attention to the game at all, and then when he got prodded he didn't seem to care. To me that reeks of confidence in the "ehh, that isn't going to affect me so badly" sort of way and is hugely scummy to me that he didn't get killed last night with the "better chance" thing.
Aside from adalia, I could vote leonard03, or HijacK
also, adalia, to me it's not that P1na shouldn't play because of a "distracting playstyle", it's a playstyle that is just not helpful, ever, and even moreso, hindering to the game and the people trying to play it. It's like playing chess with someone who just plays because they have fun moving the pieces around the board in their funny patterns. Sure, they know the object of the game is to capture the king, but, they have no interest in learning strategy or any care if they achieve the goal or not. I have no interest in playing with people like that. It's absolutely nothing personal, I don't know P1na at all, but if they are in a future mafia game playing the same way, I will vote them by policy (but not before.)
Krypsyn
The Anti-Hippie
Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
