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General discussionExtremely unfortunate themes in games you love(72 posts)(72 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 14, 2022
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Catventurer: Final Fantasy is the only setting that gets a pass when it comes to bikini armor only because the men tend to be overly sexualized and sometimes half naked as well.
If you're talking about the game Final Fantasy, then the graphics aren't fancy enough to really notice bikini armor, plus the playable classes all seem to have gender neutral artwork.

If you're talking about the entire Final Fantasy series, then there isn't really a Final Fantasy setting, as the games are different setting-wise; this becomes especially true once you get to 6 and onwards.

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mqstout: Urban Empire eventually blocks your progress if you don't enact limited-liability shareholder corporations. Most games I can overlook things (like the obscenely anti-humanist theme in Disco Elysium), or the cannibalism/humanleather options in RimWorld (that I don't use and aren't exactly optimal), or the everything in most 4x games... But the up-close scale of Urban Empire made it really unsettling to me. I don't want to enact such a corruption-guaranteed, anti-market intervention as that. I was REALLY enjoying the game until that. I guess it was "prospective love".

It looked like I could have continued without it, but that I would have been extremely hamstrung. So I stopped playing.

Related, but not quite the same [especially since I never loved the game]: Democracy 3 had this asinine thing that ending cannabis prohibition caused rather marked crime increases, and even more organized crime. This is extremely counter to reality. But, hey, at least it modeled the disgusting power of the "motorist" constituency well.
Reminds me of how, in Civilization 1-3, monotheism is considered more advanced than polytheism, something that I actually do consider to be problematic. (Also, in Civilization 2, fundamentalism may be the most powerful form of government, to the point where it can be said to break game balance, and the only way to get that without monotheism is to beat the other civilizations to the Statue of Liberty wonder.)
Post edited October 14, 2022 by dtgreene
Posted October 14, 2022
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dtgreene: Arcanum gave female characters +1 Constitution (which does not allow them to reach 21).
Are you sure that they can't reach 21? I played long ago, I don't remember that level cap.

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dtgreene: Arcanum also has the issue that half the playable races are male-only, and there are no female-only races available.
Well, that's obviously due to time and resource constraints. As for those races like Dwarves, there would be too much difference in dialogs and story.
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mqstout: Democracy 3 had this asinine thing that ending cannabis prohibition caused rather marked crime increases, and even more organized crime. This is extremely counter to reality.
Is it? As far as I know, places, where recreational cannabis is allowed, tend to have more crime. Sure, if you want a game to have the opposite effect that's okay (if I'm not mistaken Democracy 3 is quite moddable), but that has nothing to do with reality.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by LootHunter
Posted October 14, 2022
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dtgreene: Reminds me of how, in Civilization 1-3, monotheism is considered more advanced than polytheism, something that I actually do consider to be problematic. (Also, in Civilization 2, fundamentalism may be the most powerful form of government, to the point where it can be said to break game balance, and the only way to get that without monotheism is to beat the other civilizations to the Statue of Liberty wonder.)
Well, I'm a big fan of the Civ games, but if you start caring about the underlying worldviews, let's just say it's quite the can of worm to open. :-/

http://pmc.iath.virginia.edu/issue.902/13.1douglas.html

https://essaydocs.org/bombs-barbarians-and-backstories-meaning-making-within-sid-mei.html
Posted October 14, 2022
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mqstout: Democracy 3 had this asinine thing that ending cannabis prohibition caused rather marked crime increases, and even more organized crime. This is extremely counter to reality.
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LootHunter: Is it? As far as I know, places, where recreational cannabis is allowed, tend to have more crime.
I see you've not read any of the overwhelming research that concludes that *at worst* there's a net zero effect on crime, but there are also considerable studies that show a decrease in crime (and especially organized crime) with the cessation of prohibition. I do suggest you look it up -- especially before/after stories (and not misleading "place was already laden with crime so they legalized to try something" stories). This may help to correct your perception of reality.

But to discuss this further here would both derail the thread and edge toward political discussion against the CoC. It was a big reality-distortion in the game that was very unfortunate that led me to dislike the game.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by mqstout
Posted October 14, 2022
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Telika: https://www.gog.com/game/15_days

"A three-man activist group has set out to make the world a better place by stealing famous pieces of art in the world's most renowned museums, selling them to private collectors, and donating the money to charity."
Ah, yeah. Don't recall that one, but that's quite messed up, especially considering the role those with enough wealth and influence to be on the market for such "hot" goods likely play in the fact that many others need charity...
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Catventurer: There's too many games to mention but for me, it's the bikini armor.
No kidding.

I'll add the way marriage works in King's Bounty: The Legend. Basically the wife is an item with item slots of its own, which would be the children, and the only things you can say to her is that you want to have children or get a divorce. And that's another problem for me as an antinatalist, definitely refused having children, so did without those bonuses.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by Cavalary
Posted October 14, 2022
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Catventurer: Final Fantasy is the only setting that gets a pass when it comes to bikini armor only because the men tend to be overly sexualized and sometimes half naked as well.
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dtgreene: If you're talking about the game Final Fantasy, then the graphics aren't fancy enough to really notice bikini armor, plus the playable classes all seem to have gender neutral artwork.

If you're talking about the entire Final Fantasy series, then there isn't really a Final Fantasy setting, as the games are different setting-wise; this becomes especially true once you get to 6 and onwards.
I'm referring to the series in general, not the first game. I'm aware that that they take place in different settings - 6 is the World of Balance/Ruin, 7 is Planet, 10 is Spira, and 11 is Vana'diel. For any of the others, I'd have to look it up. I'd argue that overall, one of the more over sexualized characters is Sephiroth - especially when you consider some of the fan art out there.

Final Fantasy 14 is another example in that from the screen shots I've seen of that game (from people trying to get me to play it), a lot of player avatars are running around practically naked regardless of gender.

I'm not going to complain about bikini armor when it isn't restricted and everyone gets a turn.
Posted October 14, 2022
Well, I mean, I suppose the Mafia games count? Even though the overall message of the series is that sometimes people are forced into a life of crime, it still sometimes does rub me the wrong way with the gratuitous violence and such.

Typically speaking, unless a game has an overt political agenda that I disagree with, I can usually ignore things I disagree with because I'm playing a game to have fun, not to look for flaws. If I come across flaws, I address them then but I'm not actively looking for reasons to dislike a game.
Posted October 14, 2022
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Cavalary: I'll add the way marriage works in King's Bounty: The Legend. Basically the wife is an item with item slots of its own, which would be the children, and the only things you can say to her is that you want to have children or get a divorce. And that's another problem for me as an antinatalist, definitely refused having children, so did without those bonuses.
Or you could just put artifacts in those slots. Anyhow, I don't see any sexism here, as companions for Amelie in "Armored Princess" work exactly the same way (minus children for obvious reasons). :-)
Post edited October 14, 2022 by LootHunter
Posted October 14, 2022
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Cavalary: The robbing museums part sounds like Crookz, but not the giving away part...
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Telika: https://www.gog.com/game/15_days

"A three-man activist group has set out to make the world a better place by stealing famous pieces of art in the world's most renowned museums, selling them to private collectors, and donating the money to charity."
That's so stupid. Yeah, let's steal from the public for the sake of private sociopaths! They pay us and we give it to charity!

...

Well. What if -and it's a weird idea nobody thought about before- we steal from those same guys to give to the poor instead? There are these men in tights in Birtain...
Post edited October 14, 2022 by Enebias
Posted October 14, 2022
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JakobFel: Well, I mean, I suppose the Mafia games count? Even though the overall message of the series is that sometimes people are forced into a life of crime, it still sometimes does rub me the wrong way with the gratuitous violence and such.
I don't think it's really fair to reproach it to games which, by design, put you clearly in the shoes of a criminal (a mafioso, a pirate, an assassin, a dictator, a drug dealer, a burglar, etc). Being knowingly the baddie, or the alien undead man-eating monster, is just the whole point of the game. This thread seems to be more about issues that players or designers seem awkwardly unaware of, or seem to not consider morally dubious.

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Cavalary: Ah, yeah. Don't recall that one, but that's quite messed up, especially considering the role those with enough wealth and influence to be on the market for such "hot" goods likely play in the fact that many others need charity...
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Enebias: That's so stupid. Yeah, let's steal from the public for the sake of private sociopaths! They pay us and we give it to charity!
Yeah. Imagine the government itself deciding to sell the classic content of museums to private collectors in order to fund social services. I think (I hope) that the outrage would be unanimous on the whole political spectrum.
Posted October 14, 2022
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Enebias: That's so stupid. Yeah, let's steal from the public for the sake of private sociopaths! They pay us and we give it to charity!
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Telika: Yeah. Imagine the government itself deciding to sell the classic content of museums to private collectors in order to fund social services. I think (I hope) that the outrage would be unanimous on the whole political spectrum.
You have more faith in humanity than I do! I don't think we're far off from that... especially considering that now everything has been privitized and eaten by corporations that pay no taxes. Money must come from somewhere, and the average person isn't much above the level of starvation.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by Enebias
Posted October 14, 2022
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Telika: Yeah. Imagine the government itself deciding to sell the classic content of museums to private collectors in order to fund social services. I think (I hope) that the outrage would be unanimous on the whole political spectrum.
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Enebias: You have more faith in humanity than I do! I don't think we're far off from that... especially considering that now everything has been privitized and eaten by corporations that pay no taxes. Money must come from somewhere, and the average person isn't much above the level of starvation.
Well, to be fair, for starters there's the authors of that game, who seem to consider the idea brilliant. :-/

(I haven't played the game though. There may be some very clever unexpected twist or epiphany down the storyline, for all I know...)
Posted October 14, 2022
If you want to go there, that's basically the majority of videogames. Solving problems with violence, gaining advantages by killing, stealing, destroying, manipulating etc. are common game mechanics. Those where you don't officially play the bad guy often try to give you excuses for your license to kill but it doesn't change all that much about it. Even in adventure games you usually do a lot of questionable stuff that would not be okay at all in RL. And just think about all the vandalism in bashing containers for loot. ;P
Post edited October 14, 2022 by Leroux
Posted October 14, 2022
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Telika: Well, to be fair, for starters there's the authors of that game, who seem to consider the idea brilliant. :-/
Most likely they wanted to have a game about stealing stuff while having the main characters appear as being lovable modern day Robin Hood types and that's the excuse they came up with in ten seconds at the coffee machine, nothing more deep than that.
Posted October 14, 2022
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LootHunter: Is it? As far as I know, places, where recreational cannabis is allowed, tend to have more crime. Sure, if you want a game to have the opposite effect that's okay (if I'm not mistaken Democracy 3 is quite moddable), but that has nothing to do with reality.
Cannabis use turns most users into low-IQ zombies, they're too apathetic to commit crimes (or too stupid to get away with them for long).
It triggers psychosis in some though, those could then be dangerous, commit knife attacks etc.
Post edited October 14, 2022 by morolf
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionExtremely unfortunate themes in games you love(72 posts)(72 posts)
(72 posts)