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Magnitus: From what I read in my course on Chinese history (I had 3 credits to kill that I could only take as elective outside my specialisation and it was the summer, meaning that pickings were slim... on the bright side, I think it broadened my perspective a little), their more recent political movement has very much been a reaction to Western and Japanese imperialism, which lead them to reject their traditional Confucian values in exchange for Russian-style Marxism.

That mellowed out considerable under Deng Xiaoping (who, while not flawless, seemed exceptional from what I read about him). We'll see what comes after Xi Jinping (who is not exactly a young man btw). One can hope he'll be more like the predecessor.

Countries tend to have ups and down depending on the leadership of the moment. Quite a shocking development across the ocean just recently! Nobody is immune to having a demagogue as head of state... you gotta stay vigilant.
(sorry for the late answer)

Yeah, the so-called "century of humiliation". While there is no denying that China was a victim of what you call "Western and Japanese imperialism" (sometimes gruesomely so) and that these aggressions left deep scars, your university course seems to have painted a rosier image of China than reality.

Things certainly did not mellow out under Deng Xiaoping. After all, he was the supreme leader during the Tiananmen square bloodbath. The "century of humiliation" became a systematic tool of propaganda (and school curricula) as a reaction to the massacre. Why? Because the CCP's leadership saw what was brewing in the Soviet Union and its satellites, and they began to shit their pants at the idea of people demanding things of the government and threatening to topple it. Today, they would like to have the chinese people believe that nothing happened there and then, but at the time, the population was shocked at the army killing peaceful protesters. Chinese protesters. Hence the recourse to that time-honored practice of blaming the foreigners for everything that went wrong in living memory. THAT is what prompted the CCP to ramp up the rhetorics of China having been wronged. By the way, the rejection of confucian dogma was quietly reversed when it became convenient (see Confucius Prize, Confucius Institutes, etc...)

Secondly, it should never be forgotten that China sees itself as 国: the Middle kingdom. For millennia, they considered themselves to be the literal center of the world, surrounded by "barbarians" (if you've never heard of Empress Suiko's letter to the chinese emperor, do yourself a favor and look it up: it is both hilarious and enlightening). For many centuries, China took tributes from other countries as a mark of submission. To refuse to send an adequate and timely tribute was, at best, to be unable to trade with China (does it sound familiar? Wink wink nudge nudge), at worst to expose yourself to a military invasion.

Thirdly, to hell with the myth of the peaceful China without a colonial empire. What is happening today in Xinjiang - a meticulous, cold-blooded genocide on an industrial scale) rightly calls to mind the Shoah, but China's no beginner. Systematic attempt to destroy a foreign culture? Check (eg. Vietnam in the 15th century). State-led, years-long ethnic cleansing? Check (eg. the Dzungar people in the 17th century).
Post edited January 16, 2021 by Dalswyn
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Dalswyn: (sorry for the late answer)

Yeah, the so-called "century of humiliation". While there is no denying that China was a victim of what you call "Western and Japanese imperialism" (sometimes gruesomely so) and that these aggressions left deep scars, your university course seems to have painted a rosier image of China than reality.

Things certainly did not mellow out under Deng Xiaoping. After all, he was the supreme leader during the Tiananmen square bloodbath. The "century of humiliation" became a systematic tool of propaganda (and school curricula) as a reaction to the massacre. Why? Because the CCP's leadership saw what was brewing in the Soviet Union and its satellites, and they began to shit their pants at the idea of people demanding things of the government and threatening to topple it. Today, they would like to have the chinese people believe that nothing happened there and then, but at the time, the population was shocked at the army killing peaceful protesters. Chinese protesters. Hence the recourse to that time-honored practice of blaming the foreigners for everything that went wrong in living memory. THAT is what prompted the CCP to ramp up the rhetorics of China having been wronged. By the way, the rejection of confucian dogma was quietly reversed when it became convenient (see Confucius Prize, Confucius Institutes, etc...)

Secondly, it should never be forgotten that China sees itself as 国: the Middle kingdom. For millennia, they considered themselves to be the literal center of the world, surrounded by "barbarians" (if you've never heard of Empress Suiko's letter to the chinese emperor, do yourself a favor and look it up: it is both hilarious and enlightening). For many centuries, China took tributes from other countries as a mark of submission. To refuse to send an adequate and timely tribute was, at best, to be unable to trade with China (does it sound familiar? Wink wink nudge nudge), at worst to expose yourself to a military invasion.

Thirdly, to hell with the myth of the peaceful China without a colonial empire. What is happening today in Xinjiang - a meticulous, cold-blooded genocide on an industrial scale) rightly calls to mind the Shoah, but China's no beginner. Systematic attempt to destroy a foreign culture? Check (eg. Vietnam in the 15th century). State-led, years-long ethnic cleansing? Check (eg. the Dzungar people in the 17th century).
I won't pretend to be an expert on China. Being a neighbour, you probably know more about the local history than me.

I have no illusion that China won't be a bully if they are given free reign, its just how people are. In a way, its good that all the major players have nukes (it imposes a certain degree of respect), though as a software developer, I do worry quite a bit about cyber-warfare (my biggest personal worry about China honestly).

I do know about the "Middle Kingdom" mentality (and the dominance strategy by trade), though to be fair, being in a large dominant country brings out that kind of mentality in some. You'll find some people that are like that in the US too (in movies of course, but also in the way some people talk).

But yes, China, as a dictatorship, can presently afford to be more uncaring about human rights (part of the reasons I would not go visit China). However, I would be remiss not to mention that while they have at best a tenuous grip on power, extremists south of the border hold enough influence to be pretty scary and we have some of those in our own backyard too (Proud Boys, Combat 18, Blood & Honor, etc). Also, after 9/11, there was a palpable atmosphere of Islamophobia that unsettled me quite a bit (though I think its better now).

Its not very difficult to imagine how things could feasibly go very bad, no matter where you are.
Post edited January 16, 2021 by Magnitus
Huh. Devotion isn't on the community wish list's weekly highlights. How odd.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55651798 "Uncle Roger comedian deletes video with China critic"

China makes a Youtuber bend the knee. Malaysian living in UK, Malaysian Chinese parents. I wonder how he was pressured for this, relatives threatened?

Still no word how GOG was pressured to bend the knee. Can't be just threat of banning GOG / Cyperpunk 2077 from China...
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WeirdoGeek: Huh. Devotion isn't on the community wish list's weekly highlights. How odd.
Yes, it is.
Attachments:
wishlist.png (39 Kb)
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Magnitus: I won't pretend to be an expert on China. Being a neighbour, you probably know more about the local history than me.

I have no illusion that China won't be a bully if they are given free reign, its just how people are. In a way, its good that all the major players have nukes (it imposes a certain degree of respect), though as a software developer, I do worry quite a bit about cyber-warfare (my biggest personal worry about China honestly).

I do know about the "Middle Kingdom" mentality (and the dominance strategy by trade), though to be fair, being in a large dominant country brings out that kind of mentality in some. You'll find some people that are like that in the US too (in movies of course, but also in the way some people talk).

But yes, China, as a dictatorship, can presently afford to be more uncaring about human rights (part of the reasons I would not go visit China). However, I would be remiss not to mention that while they have at best a tenuous grip on power, extremists south of the border hold enough influence to be pretty scary and we have some of those in our own backyard too (Proud Boys, Combat 18, Blood & Honor, etc). Also, after 9/11, there was a palpable atmosphere of Islamophobia that unsettled me quite a bit (though I think its better now).

Its not very difficult to imagine how things could feasibly go very bad, no matter where you are.
I am not Chinese at all. I just changed my avatar and displayed country as a sign of protest (think "I am Spartacus" or "Ich bin ein Berliner" at a much lower level). After all, the PRC works hard at convincing people worldwide that Taiwan is not a real country.

It is true that nationals of a country (no matter how small) tend to think of themselves as inherently superior to others. Humans, as well as many other gregarious animals, are naturally wary of strangers. Problem is, China cranks that up to 11. It is not just what people (consciously or not) believe, it is, -again, what the government sings.

It is also true that extremists (and terrorists) can be found in the USA, in Canada, and where I live too. It is always good to keep that in mind, lest one veer to a holier-than-thou stance.

That said, I'm confident that when your mother told you "Magnitus, clean up your room", any attempt to dodge it by saying 'But Mom, Taylor's room is way messier than mine" would have been swiftly countered with "I don't care, just clean it". Likewise, just because your own house is not ship-shape does not preclude you from yelling at your neighbor when he throws his garbage in your garden or when he parks his car in front of your garage door.
Post edited January 16, 2021 by Dalswyn
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WeirdoGeek: Huh. Devotion isn't on the community wish list's weekly highlights. How odd.
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M3troid: Yes, it is.
Oh. I thought it'd be on top, considering it's the most requested game despite "messages from many gamers". I stand corrected.
Jason Schreier just posted a new piece that exposed CDPR's unethical behaviors via his connection to inside sources who talked to him off the record.

Has anyone bothered to email him and request that he look into the nitty gritty details behind the Devotion banning by GOG?

I'm sure he could get us real answers, should he choose to investigate. But I'm not sure if anyone has asked him so far?
An interesting thing I discovered is that Origin carries Detention, there previous game.
So sad that GOG bend the knee to China and disappointed...
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wolfsite: An interesting thing I discovered is that Origin carries Detention, there previous game.
A number of digitial distribution platforms carry Detention atm:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Detention

That includes Playism, Japanese store dedicated (or at least originally meant for) to distributing Japanese PC indie games.
In this case (Detention) they give you both DRM-free builds AS WELL AS Steam key.
Worth checking for people who care about DRM-free IMO.
Ahhh, finally back from my monthlong forced holiday! :D

What did I miss?

Have gog apologized for their unfathomable cowardice and put Devotion up for sale already?
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fronzelneekburm: Ahhh, finally back from my monthlong forced holiday! :D

What did I miss?

Have gog apologized for their unfathomable cowardice and put Devotion up for sale already?
1 month of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FB9GYkIT3E
So no famous newspaper / magazine / youtube channel / wahtever with leverage enough to force a statement out of GoG / CDPR? Is no one actively covering this??
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faverodefavero: So no famous newspaper / magazine / youtube channel / wahtever with leverage enough to force a statement out of GoG / CDPR? Is no one actively covering this??
One one side you have a small Indy title that isn't sold anywhere, on the over side you have a botched up major AAA release, from a major publisher, that sold for more than 13 million units.

Which one as the most click bait potential ?

Take the amount of videos / articles made about Gog & Devotion (usually one per youtuber / site) and compare it to the number made, and still being made, about Cyberpunk (too many to count).

Devotion was the one day controversy while Cyberpunk is the click bait paradise that can be milked for a couple of months.
Post edited January 17, 2021 by Gersen